Author Topic: Bible in Na'vi  (Read 72703 times)

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Offline `Eylan Ayfalulukanä

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Re: Bible in Na'vi
« Reply #160 on: March 26, 2010, 02:25:04 am »
But I agree. Sooner or later we have to see how to get this done. The question is: Do we start from English, from Hebrew, from Greek, from Kiswahili...? If we start from Hebrew, Jeremiah would end up with something like Yirmeyahu. Do we want this? Will people understand it?
Some names do also have a meaning and it's often a playing with words, like Benjamin who was first to be named Ben Oni (Son of bad luck or likely) but was then named Benjamin (son of the right hand, of Righteousness), or theink about Immanuel being the synonym for Jesus, meaning God with us... but you'd still understand the main message without those translated names, otherwise the Bible in our own national languages would not work either. The question is what we want. Yet I think the idea to keep the English names is a good approximation, and when we put them in braces, we can have them replaced quickly later by a script or something...

I think that the only way this will ever be right is when the names are transliterated as sourced from the original language, by someone who thoroughly understands the original languages. Until then, better to leave them in curly braces.

BTW, you have pretty much picked up the formatting ideas I have suggested. It looks open and easy to work with, which was the intent. I can see though, that it might be important to have a way of having comments interspersed in the text. I will give this some thought on how to best keep the notes and text related but separated. (While I was writing this, my CD player catastrophically failed  :-[ I think there is a vrrtep out there that does not like this project!)

Quote from: Alim Tsamsiyu
If we're going to translate the most important book ever written, it's going to take some serious proofreading to ensure we've done it justice by getting it correct.
Quote from: Timuiäyä`itan
This is why we post our work here to crossreview. As already said: Most of us are beginners, we just don't know better but are eager to learn. For some this might even be their first foreign language they learn.

Amen to that, but it will take time, as no one really knows the language for sure, and much vocabulary still needs to be developed. So, it will take the form of 'rough draft with refinements'. In any case, welcome to the group. Your skills will be welcome here. Wish I had found this when you did (saw the movie for the first time Christmas day and fell in love with (most) everything Na`vi then and there!).

Quote from: Timuiäyä`itan
Marvellous. Maybe it's worth thinking about joining efforts, as riftmaster said he'd be working on a layout for the bible text and 'Eylan Ayfalulukanä was also doing some work in the direction of how to keep the results together...

The website will be very helpful. A lot of different ways to do it, though.

Quote from: `Eylan Ayfalulukanä
We do have a term for 'demon' vrrtep (That and its plural fayvrrtep
Quote from: Timuiäyä`itan
I like these words, too. Also krr and trr. Just anythink with double r. And similarly the double l. Just one thing: fayvrrtep is not the plural of vrrtep, but the plural plus (=this). So fayvrrtep would be "these demons" and the plural of vrrtep is just ayvrrtep without "f".

My bad. I just this evening, before I read this post, realized I should have used ayvrrtep

Quote from: `Eylan Ayfalulukanä
One name for Jesus I like is 'Lion of the Tribe of Judah' or possibly Palulukanru olo'ri a{Judah}
Quote from: Timuiäyä`itan
I think it would rather be something like Palulukan olo'yä le{Judah}. "a" goes only with Adjectives. In order to make a noun (like a name) into an Adjective, you put "le" in front of it. Then, if it follows the described noun (olo'yä here) you don't have to use another "a", because the "le" makes clear it's an Adjective. Only if you say Palulukan le{Judah}a olo'yä you have to append the "a", as it is on the opposite side of "le" and the marker has to be on the same side with the noun. I know the term as Lion of Judah, so that would leave the olo' out (and I'm never sure if there is a difference between clan and tribe): Palulukan {Judah}yä or {Judah}yä Palulukan.

I understand what you are saying here, and I now have a 'rule' as to when to use -a- and when to use le-! I will probably use this a lot personally, as I am a total lion nut. This is in a large part due to the use of the lion as a symbol for Jesus and for God. (I help care for the lion in my avatar. He is a really wonderful cat.)

The phrase 'Lion of the Tribe of Judah' is from Revelation 5:5-6, the only place in the bible that this 'name' is used. But 'lion of Judah' is very common usage as well. There is no Na`vi word for 'tribe', and 'clan' means very nearly the same thing. 'Clan' is actually closer, as the typical use, as in a Scottish or Irish family, because the clan is descended from one male person. This is the also the case in each of the 12 tribes of israel.

Quote from: Timuiäyä`itan
Btw, I like the idea of using animal names of Na'vi fauna, as it would be closer to the Pandora feeling and there will never be a word for a real lion I guess... Would Toruk be something like Leviathan? But Toruk is positive in Na'vi culture I think, so it would not be wise to connect it with negative Leviathan I think.

A Palulukan is the closest thing on Pandora (that we know of) to a lion. Palulukan has also come to be a stand-in on this list, for any kind of cat. So, that worked out well. And I agree with your thinking. A bible translation should match the culture it is for. Otherwise, it would be like trying to teach 'The Old Rugged Cross' to a Zulu tribe here on Earth. They would have a s much of a problem singing that as we do Zulu music with its clicks and pops.

I disagree concerning Leviathan. For the most part, he is cast as a noble creature in Job, but like Toruk, is also feared for practical reasons. So is Behemoth. I would agree that Leviathan is a good match to Toruk, until we learn if Pandora has any great sea-beasts. `angtsìkä is a good match for Behemoth.

Now I have to extricate the CD from my deceased CD player...... :P

Yawey ayngahu
« Last Edit: March 26, 2010, 03:15:21 pm by `Eylan Ayfalulukanä »

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Offline Tirea Aean

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Re: Bible in Na'vi
« Reply #161 on: March 26, 2010, 07:03:53 am »
of course we are all going to have different takes on John 3:16 KJV--For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

my trans:

Talun-a kifkey l<am>u fìtxan yawne Yawì-ru, tsnì po 'itan a-'aw po-ä t<ol>ìng, tsnì fra-tute a sp<iv>aw po-mì ke t<asy>erkup, slä l<asy>u fo-ru frakrr tì-rey.

Because world was so beloved to God, that he son one his gave, that everyperson that believes inhim WILL not die, but WILL be to them forever life.

Because the world was so beloved to God, that he gave his one son, that every person that believes in him will not die, but will have forever life.

what do you all think? (idk if you guys know, but <asy> is a diff Frommer attested version of <ay>, which i used here on purpose.)
« Last Edit: March 26, 2010, 10:06:42 am by Tirea Aean »

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Offline riftmaster

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Re: Bible in Na'vi
« Reply #162 on: March 26, 2010, 09:21:50 am »
I have got an english language GCSE exam on the 6th of April.

Will be able to upload the template PDF after that date.

BTW: my computer is now fixed!!!




Offline Col Quaritch

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Re: Bible in Na'vi
« Reply #163 on: March 28, 2010, 06:16:34 pm »
Expect mega huge post from me Monday or Tuesday on reorginzing how we do this. I have had my chats and prayers and chats. And thanks to alot of imput I see our mistacks and how to best fix this. so till then give your eyes an brain a rest biggest post I have ever done on any forum any where comes this week,


Offline Alìm Tsamsiyu

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Re: Bible in Na'vi
« Reply #164 on: March 29, 2010, 09:05:49 am »
Quote
a la "Yawe/Yawey"
Problem is: How did the Hebrews pronounce the names? ;) Even today in Israel you can hear clearly who is an immigrant from the USA and who not. I was able to tell this apart before I knew only one word in Hebrew.

You bring up a good point here (and in the paragraph or so after) - Looks like this matter will require a lot of deliberation.

Quote
The only thing I see is in verse 4, "saw" - not sure if you intended this to be plural (you didn't mark it if you did)
If not, it'd just be "taw."
I meant it to be singular, but I thought the "mì" before it causes lention...?

Haha, indeed it does.  I tend to put -mì on the ends of the words I want it with (helps with clarity to me), probably why I didn't notice that one.

You're a good study of Na'vi, for being apparently new (as you say you are) you've gotten most of the typically-missed subjects down pretty well.

Quote
First of all, it's painful to me to see the spread of "Yawä" as a word intended to be pronounced similar to "Yahweh."
It works well if you pronounce Jahwe like the Germans do ;) That's where I came from in the beginning, I had the first text with JHWH in it, so I had to come to a decision. People here agreed with me on it, that's how it went. Now, a couple of days later, I'd rather go by Yawì, which seems to me to be closest to what I think the Hebrews would have pronounced it. But still, this might be as German-centered as your Yawey is (US)English-centered...

Hmm interesting... Looks like this matter will also require more deliberation.  Perhaps a vote would be the best way to tackle this?

Though personally, I like "Yawì" better than "Yawä."

Quote
More accurate to Hebrew - English translation [and easier to translate
There was no Hebrew gospel of John that we would know of ;) Original is Greek. But still, it's great you help us on our translations. We can really need your help.

Haha :P Indeed.

Still, my point remains that the original in its use of "all the world" was referring to "all people in the world."

I mainly wanted to make that distinction because "kifkey" in Na'vi doesn't have anything to do with animals or people, but rather the planet and possibly the flora of the planet.

But this sentence is really a hard nut especially if you don't know about subclauses like me... :P
So I think the Colonel did a real good job on this. Another approach would be to split it up in small sentences:
The Lord loved the world very much. Because of this, he gave His only Son. This way, everybody that believes in Him will have life forever and will not be lost (or lose himself spiritually ? -> 'ia)

Yes - he really did do a good job as one of his (if not THE) first try at a Na'vi sentence.  It is a really hard sentence for Na'vi in our current limited grammar/knowledge because of its extensive use of subclauses.
Oeyä ayswizawri tswayon alìm ulte takuk nìngay.
My arrows fly far and strike true.

Offline `Eylan Ayfalulukanä

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Re: Bible in Na'vi
« Reply #165 on: March 29, 2010, 03:27:55 pm »
Expect mega huge post from me Monday or Tuesday on reorginzing how we do this. I have had my chats and prayers and chats. And thanks to alot of imput I see our mistacks and how to best fix this. so till then give your eyes an brain a rest biggest post I have ever done on any forum any where comes this week,

Beware of length limits  ;) Haven't hit one here yet, but sooner or later, someone is bound to. (Hit the 10,000 character limit all the time on the Narniafans board!)

Yawey ngahu!
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Offline Col Quaritch

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Re: Bible in Na'vi
« Reply #166 on: March 30, 2010, 11:50:51 am »
First I want to thank everyone who has been felt lead to join this project.
But as pointed out by many it is indeed a huge undertaking and thus as the project leader I feel we need to set some rules and guidelines for those wishing to take part and doing this work, after all the goal just inst translating any great written book into the Na’vi language but the book of books the Holy Scriptures.  Like any good leadership I have chosen 3 individuals who have been with me one this from the very early stages and have shown great interest and drive to be part of my staff in helping me with those bigger tuff decisions that I may have to make from time to time to see this project completed. Proverbs 15: 22 Plans fail for lack of counsel, but with many advisers they succeed. They are `Eylan Ayfalulukanä, Tester Scott and Tìmuiäyä'itan. Their roll in this is simple should I ask them to cast votes on a subject in example say the Na’vi usage of Holy then they would be there to help me in shall we say a small “bull session” to come up with the best way to best serve the Lord in this project. 
I or anyone else who wishes to be part of actually putting their hand to translation the scriptures to Na’vi needs to understand Na’vi. I will admit I have some very minor basics. It is suggested by Alim Tsamsiyu, that we all get on Skype and learn the written language there and to better understand what we are doing. The last thing I know is I do not want to make error in translation of this work and I believe neither do you.  I already have my account now on Skype it’s, Col-Quaritch. Now on that matter at Alim choosing since they have offered to teach us on that program I would urge that at least once a week we spend their learning Na’vi. I will admit I am not one of those that can learn by just reading I need to be shown and to put into practice what I am shown in order to learn. But I do encourage those on this project to take advantage of Alim Tsamsiyu generous offer.
Now to the biggie the one I know been bothering everyone from the start and we still wrestle with. As I asked for everyone to pm me an give me their views on using Na’vi or not for names in the Scripture, I have taken all post, pm’s into consideration as well I have prayed about it a very long time and this is my final decision on the subject of names in the bible. Until such time as we have definitive Na’vi words as such all names in the Bible will remain as is. I honestly feel lead till such time that such names as Yahweh will remain just as that.
As to words that simply do not yet exists in Na’vi but we all know they should be there to make it more sense you know such as “the” , “or” , “and” these words will simply be typed in italic  format in the translation. I am not so sure if I have made myself very clear on this point if I have yea for my side :D When posting our verse for grammar correction as such I wish for all the translators to post in this format please.
Bible verse first,
Na’vi translation next,
Then followed with literal word for word translation please, break this apart as much as possible mainly so one we all can learn as we see the corrections but also so we all can learn as we read it in Na’vi correctly.
Rom 10: 17 consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word of Christ. Time and time again the topic of what bible to use comes up. Simple don’t matter with the exception of the New World Translation, if you use this version I’m very sorry but truth is there isn’t a biblical scholar alive on the face of the planet even those who don’t believe that will tell you that book is completely misusing a lot of the translated words and text. As stated by two others and myself once translated into Na’vi there will be no hint what it was you translated from so long as it was the true word of God. Now I know there a few of you who have already stated you have the ability to go for the original text Greek, Hebrew and I believe Aramaic for Old Testament but I could be wrong. GREAT go for it couldn’t ask for a better!!!!
Translating of books is not the soul property of any translator first that silly unless you are uber-na’vi-scrib.  The project also needs all the hands it can get to complete its books correctly. But I do ask this say for instance BlueKitty#3 is doing the book of Job first and you wish to do this book as well after they started please check with them see what work they have done. Is the work they done completed if so no reason going over the same ground twice? Philippians 4: 20 To our God and Father be glory forever and ever. Amen. We are workers together on this remember we are not doing this for our glory but for the Lords.
Preparing for translating, like any good Bible study Prayer! Do this first before starting Ask for guidance and understand, because when you think about it you are doing bible study at the same time cool huh. Best advice I ever got in doing my bible studies do them when you are well rested, not when you’re ready for bed time, some close at hand to drink, no TV on or anything to distract you from your work.
Thessalonians 5: 23 May God himself, the God of peace, sanctify you through and through. May your whole spirit, soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.


Offline `Eylan Ayfalulukanä

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Re: Bible in Na'vi
« Reply #167 on: March 30, 2010, 03:37:06 pm »
Meuia ne yawey! Now, work can proceed!

Irayo!

Yawey ngahu!
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Offline Col Quaritch

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Re: Bible in Na'vi
« Reply #168 on: March 30, 2010, 11:47:03 pm »
Whats a good day for everyone to skype so we can start learning this language? Im a disable Vet I'm free anytime of the day or week.


Offline Tirea Aean

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Re: Bible in Na'vi
« Reply #169 on: March 31, 2010, 10:18:11 am »
EVERY DAY. lol

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I'll be glad to help anyone learn Na'vi. I have spent LOADS of time learning it and feel confident in my abilities to help others learn it too. :D

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Offline Col Quaritch

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Re: Bible in Na'vi
« Reply #170 on: March 31, 2010, 01:31:05 pm »
Ok rock on then I have you already on my skype I havnt done face book yet to be honest cant figure it it, honest I cant.


Offline `Eylan Ayfalulukanä

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Re: Bible in Na'vi
« Reply #171 on: March 31, 2010, 03:22:50 pm »
I need to get a headset-- with a decent microphone-- so I can start using Skype and/or Teamspeak. My free time is basically in the evenings, the later the better. Saturday and (especially) Sunday evenings also work well for me. My schedule varies radically from day to day.

Quote from: [Tiera Aean
what do you all think? (idk if you guys know, but <asy> is a diff Frommer attested version of <ay>, which i used here on purpose.)

It is imperative future tense, a very nice addition. This is also a nice place to use it! You can find a nice one-page reference for Na`vi verbs at http://www.lionlamb.us/Navi_stuff/The_Navi_Verb.pdf There is a similar one for nouns I will be updating this evening: http://www.lionlamb.us/Navi_stuff/The_Navi_Noun.pdf Change the filename extensions in the URLs to .odt and you will have an editable version of them, in OpenOffice.

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Re: Bible in Na'vi
« Reply #172 on: March 31, 2010, 03:47:50 pm »
Yes! Asy and ìsy are practically the way to say "shall verb" in Na'vi! A huge discovery for this project

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Offline Col Quaritch

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Re: Bible in Na'vi
« Reply #173 on: March 31, 2010, 05:14:22 pm »
Don't need anything but a keyboard to do skype I'm on it right now with one of our teachers and already started a firm understand of the vowles of Navi and the useage of a simple word. Going to do my bible study now then try my hand at more verse from the Book of John and look forward to the correction of it as it will no doudt help me learn navi even better.



Yours in Christ,

Colonel Quaritch.


Offline Col Quaritch

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Re: Bible in Na'vi
« Reply #174 on: April 09, 2010, 01:58:04 pm »
Okay I give up? What happen to everyones drive for this project. Was it cuase I tried to put some rules as such to doing this a certian way? Has everyone just got tired of it and said too big a project for me. This topic was daily at the top of its posting section now were on 2nd page and im the last 3 posters. The rules and such I set forth was not for you to stop working and chatting with each other that has died off too it seems. but to put structure and order to a project of this scope and scale. I'm sure that the powers that be will correct me iff I'm wrong but Na'iv is juat about under 800 words total yea thats going to make it a tuff nut to crack and use to translate with. If there was any problems with the structure of how I feel the project needs to move along I would like to hear in PM's from everyone cuase this gives the feeling everyone has decided to give up, I can asure you I never will, it will take me alot longer solo but I'll never quit on this project.


Offline riftmaster

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Re: Bible in Na'vi
« Reply #175 on: April 09, 2010, 02:28:39 pm »
I have not got enough time to help at the moment, sorry. However I will have finished my exams in September. I will help when I can. So until then, Yawä ngahu!




Offline Tìmuiäyä'itan

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Re: Bible in Na'vi
« Reply #176 on: April 09, 2010, 03:39:04 pm »
Still here, though time is rare atm. There's uni, now I went home to see my family over Easter holidays and have some more things stuck in my head. But still here and still wanting to work on this. It has nothing to do with the rules you set up, when I find time I will oversee the paslams I already did and update them witht he new vocabulary we have now, I'm really ooking forward to that work, now things should be much easier than some time ago.
Probem is the time as said.


Yours in Christ
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srungìri ftära tsyokxìl ngeyä
ke ivomum futa pesuru
lu srung skiena tsyokxta ngeyä
ulte Jesus a nerìn ayfo pamlltxe
san sutehu lu keltsun
slä Yawähu frakem tsunslu sìk.

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Re: Bible in Na'vi
« Reply #177 on: April 11, 2010, 07:45:19 am »
Work stuff, and family stuff, have kept me really busy for the last couple of weeks.
Now, however, I've been tapped to be the Electoral Agent for the Parliamentary Candidate for the political party I belong to, for my constituency.  This means that I'll not be around as much for the next 4-5 weeks, sorry.

I will be working on Mark, in my spare (Ha!) time.

Yawey ngahu!  Shalom Aleichem.

PS - If you are British & of voting age, VOTE! Darnit!!!



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Brand New Learner - please correct my usage 8-)

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Re: Bible in Na'vi
« Reply #178 on: April 13, 2010, 02:16:14 pm »
Okay I give up? What happen to everyones drive for this project. Was it cuase I tried to put some rules as such to doing this a certian way? Has everyone just got tired of it and said too big a project for me. This topic was daily at the top of its posting section now were on 2nd page and im the last 3 posters. The rules and such I set forth was not for you to stop working and chatting with each other that has died off too it seems. but to put structure and order to a project of this scope and scale. I'm sure that the powers that be will correct me iff I'm wrong but Na'iv is juat about under 800 words total yea thats going to make it a tuff nut to crack and use to translate with. If there was any problems with the structure of how I feel the project needs to move along I would like to hear in PM's from everyone cuase this gives the feeling everyone has decided to give up, I can asure you I never will, it will take me alot longer solo but I'll never quit on this project.

As a college student with music as his future career, I currently have very little time (especially with finals coming up).  However, after the next 3-4 weeks, the summer break starts, and I'll be able to do a LOT more than I have now (just joined the effort).

Don't worry Quaritch: you're not the only one who wants to do this.


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Re: Bible in Na'vi
« Reply #179 on: April 16, 2010, 03:58:18 am »
If you still haven't found a word for god, why not "Great father"?

 

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