Author Topic: Bible in Na'vi  (Read 72923 times)

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Offline `Eylan Ayfalulukanä

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Re: Bible in Na'vi
« Reply #180 on: April 17, 2010, 03:12:24 am »
Work stuff, and family stuff, have kept me really busy for the last couple of weeks.
Now, however, I've been tapped to be the Electoral Agent for the Parliamentary Candidate for the political party I belong to, for my constituency.  This means that I'll not be around as much for the next 4-5 weeks, sorry.

I will be working on Mark, in my spare (Ha!) time.

Yawey ngahu!  Shalom Aleichem.

PS - If you are British & of voting age, VOTE! Darnit!!!

TesterScot, I get the impression you are British.

I am a delegate for our political process, which will keep me busy in June....

I have also been in Las Vegas since the 6th, with limited internet access during that time. If all goes as planned I finally go home tomorrow.

I, too am still solidly in this. But it seems like everyone is getting pinned to the wall by what is going on in their lives. I am no exception. I am also working on a new vocabulary tool that will benefit a lot of people.

The bottom line is, regardless of anything else, we need to pray for each other!

sìltsan txon ulte Yawey ngahu!

Yawey ngahu!
pamrel si ro [email protected]

Offline Mithcoriel

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Re: Bible in Na'vi
« Reply #181 on: April 26, 2010, 10:31:23 am »
Just peeking in out of curiosity.
So, how far are you guys? Why don't you post a list in the first post of which books have already been translated (and by whom)?

So, how are you guys going about translating e.g. "cow"? Does that become "yerik" or the like? (Sorry, didn't read the whole thread ^^')
Ayoe lu aysamsiyu a plltxe "Ni" !
Aytìhawnu ayli'uyä aswok: "Ni", "Peng", si "Niiiew-wom" !

Offline `Eylan Ayfalulukanä

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Re: Bible in Na'vi
« Reply #182 on: April 26, 2010, 03:15:38 pm »
Just peeking in out of curiosity.
So, how far are you guys? Why don't you post a list in the first post of which books have already been translated (and by whom)?

So, how are you guys going about translating e.g. "cow"? Does that become "yerik" or the like? (Sorry, didn't read the whole thread ^^')

The project appears to be on an unofficial hiatus for a number of reasons, but it is far from kerusey. I have also had a couple conversations with the good Colonel, and I know he has had his hands full as well. Here are the reasons that (I think) this project has slowed down:

1. I think the realization has finally hit home that this is not a trivial project. It is a long-term commitment on the order of years to do this really right.

2. Most of the people here are still fairly new at Na`vi, and we all have a lot to learn about this still-evolving language.

3. The Na`vi vocabulary is still very deficient to translate a work of this type. There is enough 'technology' in the bible compared toa hunter-gatherer society like the Na`vi that many words will be difficult to adequately translate without some special vocabulary.

4. There is some debate still about how to handle proper names, although I think the Colonel has pretty much solved this for now.

5. The working framework never got finished (partly my fault) because other more important projects (as well as life) intervened.

6. Everyone here has been attacked, sometimes fairly viciously, in terms of having time to work on this project. the fact these spiritual attacks are happening is confirmation to me (and others) that this project is definitely in God's will and may be more important than we think.

Now that I finally have the vocabulary screensaver project 'put to bed', that should give me more time to address issues here. I want to develop some infrastructure stuff that should help all participants in this project do the best translation work they possibly can without having to aorry too much about the mechanics of things.

The Klingon Bible has changed lives. I expect nothing less of the Na`vi bible.

On your side, are you interested in participating? There is plenty of work to be done.

Yawey ngahu ma Mithcoriel

Yawey ngahu!
pamrel si ro [email protected]

Offline Col Quaritch

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Re: Bible in Na'vi
« Reply #183 on: April 30, 2010, 12:00:06 am »
Expect a considerable post from me soon on final words for our work for God.

I researched till my eyes wanted to fall out lol, your fellow servant in Christ Jesus.


Offline Mithcoriel

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Re: Bible in Na'vi
« Reply #184 on: May 08, 2010, 06:02:52 am »
Well, maybe if I have time I might look into translating a chapter or so for the practice. Don't know if I'm that good at Na'vi. But a working framework would be useful (like a list of what has already been translated, as I said.)

Hm, well, don't you think it's a bit of an exaggeration though to say that this is God's will and all? ^^ I'm pretty sure there are more urgent things on God's mind than having the bible translated into a fictional language, wouldn't you say? (I'm seeing it more as a Na'vi-language-exercise for us)

Oh yeah, refresh my memory: has it been agreed on which version we're translating? Or does it not matter, since the rough message is the same? Do we have an english online bible we're referring to?
Ayoe lu aysamsiyu a plltxe "Ni" !
Aytìhawnu ayli'uyä aswok: "Ni", "Peng", si "Niiiew-wom" !

Offline Col Quaritch

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Re: Bible in Na'vi
« Reply #185 on: May 08, 2010, 08:05:48 am »
Mithcoriel wrote;
Hm, well, don't you think it's a bit of an exaggeration though to say that this is God's will and all? ^^ I'm pretty sure there are more urgent things on God's mind than having the bible translated into a fictional language, wouldn't you say? (I'm seeing it more as a Na'vi-language-exercise for us)

First you cant put God into a box he just wont fit, the creator of everything can handle from all that is going on all that will be going on and all that has been going on. For the project to even grown as it has tells me an others in it deffently his hand is behind it pushing us along to get the right tools and learning of the Navi language to get a proper translation done. As to the source well Ideally the orignal would be great but I dont know alot of people who can read and translate greek, ancient hebrew and aramaic. Any good accpeted version will work as it will all come out in navi, I beleive I have posted in this topic area some place of those consider accpetle and not. Very soon there will be a speical place for all works and sources we have been putting to gether in one spot so those working on the project will have access to each others work to better move the project along. The biggy topic was what to do with that name of God and should we make a Navi equal or some how chop up or even use the word eywa. As Team leader and 2 others who assist me this is done the final word I will say again for any not wishing to go back and read is all names remain as they are writting in your book God is God and so an so. I believe at this time we have only 2 people working on the New Testament and the rest have devoted themselfs to books or just small passages of the Old. I would love to have you on team as the more helping hands the sooner a project like this has a chance of getting done in my life time (old person here).
Yours in Christ.


Offline `Eylan Ayfalulukanä

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Re: Bible in Na'vi
« Reply #186 on: May 08, 2010, 12:20:45 pm »
Well, maybe if I have time I might look into translating a chapter or so for the practice. Don't know if I'm that good at Na'vi. But a working framework would be useful (like a list of what has already been translated, as I said.)

Hm, well, don't you think it's a bit of an exaggeration though to say that this is God's will and all? ^^ I'm pretty sure there are more urgent things on God's mind than having the bible translated into a fictional language, wouldn't you say? (I'm seeing it more as a Na'vi-language-exercise for us)

Oh yeah, refresh my memory: has it been agreed on which version we're translating? Or does it not matter, since the rough message is the same? Do we have an english online bible we're referring to?

Who are we to question what is and is not God's will? Things have happened with this project of a spiritual nature that clearly tell people here that God is involved. And God places tremendous emphasis on His word. In Psalms 138:2, it says "for thou has exalted thy word above all thy name". For God to describe His word this way, considering how important the name of God is, says a whole lot. There is also the command to spread the Good News into every corner of the earth. The Klingon bible has done this. Why not the Na`vi Bible? (Is there an Elvish bible?)

As far as a translation to work from, I would use more than one. My personal favorites are the NASB and the KJV, because of their literal accuracy. Use original language tools if you are comfortable with them. In the end, the original languages are the only authorative texts of the Bible, and anything else is a translation.

Yawey ngahu!
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Offline Col Quaritch

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Re: Bible in Na'vi
« Reply #187 on: May 08, 2010, 02:06:42 pm »
Although I myself have never heard that there is Elvish bible I would not be surprised if there is one. 1 Any true fan of Tolkin gonna know the man was a Christian and 2. Like us with our love of this language and perhaps a calling in there would have made one. Something I'll scower the net for. Oh yea promesis big big post soon just got tied up with real life stuff. coming soon big changes big everything postive for Bible in Navi.


Offline Mithcoriel

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Re: Bible in Na'vi
« Reply #188 on: May 08, 2010, 06:55:35 pm »
Quote
First you cant put God into a box he just wont fit,
Quote
Who are we to question what is and is not God's will?

You guys are implying I can't know what God's will is (which I can't, I can just use logic to speculate), but you're quite happy to put him into a box yourself and make your own speculations of what he thinks.

Quote
For the project to even grown as it has tells me an others in it deffently his hand is behind it pushing us
Quote
Things have happened with this project of a spiritual nature that clearly tell people here that God is involved.

Are you saying that everything that has success is being pushed by God? And again, how do you know he isn't just letting us get a nice exercise in learning Na'vi we enjoy so much, rather than depending on us for the vastly important mission to translate the bible? People have a confirmation bias, you know. You'll find people in all cultures convinced that something spiritual is going on proving their gods are pushing them.

Oh yeah, totally keep God's name the way it is. He's not the same character as Eywa. I'd keep all the person names the way they are. And probably not even use lenition on them.
But I still suspect it's gonna be extremely difficult to translate cause there are so many words that are just too earth or bible specific.
Ayoe lu aysamsiyu a plltxe "Ni" !
Aytìhawnu ayli'uyä aswok: "Ni", "Peng", si "Niiiew-wom" !

Offline Eyamsiyu

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Re: Bible in Na'vi
« Reply #189 on: May 08, 2010, 07:16:56 pm »
Quote from: Mithcoriel 
But I still suspect it's gonna be extremely difficult to translate cause there are so many words that are just too earth or bible specific.
[/quote

I really think the true way to be able to get an accurate translation (which may be easier in some ways than others) is if we translate the bible straight from the original languages (correct me if I'm wrong): OT from Hebrew, and NT from Greek.  Not to mention that one word in the bible can mean several things, which is why it's so important to use the original language.

I'll use an example: the bible in English has one word for love: "love."  However, in the Greek translation, there are four different forms of the word love used: Eros (sexual love), Philia (Brotherly love), Agape ("love through actions"), and Storge (familial love).  As far as I know, if we want to do this right, we should really look into this stuff.


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Offline Col Quaritch

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Re: Bible in Na'vi
« Reply #190 on: May 08, 2010, 07:43:05 pm »
Quote from: Mithcoriel 
But I still suspect it's gonna be extremely difficult to translate cause there are so many words that are just too earth or bible specific.
[/quote

I really think the true way to be able to get an accurate translation (which may be easier in some ways than others) is if we translate the bible straight from the original languages (correct me if I'm wrong): OT from Hebrew, and NT from Greek.  Not to mention that one word in the bible can mean several things, which is why it's so important to use the original language.

I'll use an example: the bible in English has one word for love: "love."  However, in the Greek translation, there are four different forms of the word love used: Eros (sexual love), Philia (Brotherly love), Agape ("love through actions"), and Storge (familial love).  As far as I know, if we want to do this right, we should really look into this stuff.
You are correct thats why we are taking this very slow and attempting to be very true to the translation. As to anything else this topic is for the translating of navi to the Bible not stirring the pot or pointing who's view are whos. As the head of this project I will have to go with I have been lead through prayer and been lead to this project, have seen from many other christian members who volenteered on their own to join this project I didnt seek anyone out for this, they each came and each felt that same calling and the importance of it. Allready have had our fair share of this wont work and what a joke and navi isnt large enough or the concept wont transfer. And Im sure that those that made the Bible from the Klingon language went through the same. So if I am putting God in a box as you say then thats your view but I'm not here to discuss that. If you wish to help us please we need all the extra hands, minds and willingness to be a part of this project as possible. As many of us outside of this always have full lives that are making it hard to devote all we would love to. Please dont take this wrong as I know I am very gruff thats my nature but any other comments or concerns not pertaining to the project in moveing foward oh in helping please everyone send a pm or just say nothing at all. If you still feel the need use the Rant room or pm me if need be.


Offline Eyamsiyu

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Re: Bible in Na'vi
« Reply #191 on: May 08, 2010, 09:14:22 pm »
Quote from: Mithcoriel 
But I still suspect it's gonna be extremely difficult to translate cause there are so many words that are just too earth or bible specific.
[/quote

I really think the true way to be able to get an accurate translation (which may be easier in some ways than others) is if we translate the bible straight from the original languages (correct me if I'm wrong): OT from Hebrew, and NT from Greek.  Not to mention that one word in the bible can mean several things, which is why it's so important to use the original language.

I'll use an example: the bible in English has one word for love: "love."  However, in the Greek translation, there are four different forms of the word love used: Eros (sexual love), Philia (Brotherly love), Agape ("love through actions"), and Storge (familial love).  As far as I know, if we want to do this right, we should really look into this stuff.
You are correct thats why we are taking this very slow and attempting to be very true to the translation. As to anything else this topic is for the translating of navi to the Bible not stirring the pot or pointing who's view are whos. As the head of this project I will have to go with I have been lead through prayer and been lead to this project, have seen from many other christian members who volenteered on their own to join this project I didnt seek anyone out for this, they each came and each felt that same calling and the importance of it. Allready have had our fair share of this wont work and what a joke and navi isnt large enough or the concept wont transfer. And Im sure that those that made the Bible from the Klingon language went through the same. So if I am putting God in a box as you say then thats your view but I'm not here to discuss that. If you wish to help us please we need all the extra hands, minds and willingness to be a part of this project as possible. As many of us outside of this always have full lives that are making it hard to devote all we would love to. Please dont take this wrong as I know I am very gruff thats my nature but any other comments or concerns not pertaining to the project in moveing foward oh in helping please everyone send a pm or just say nothing at all. If you still feel the need use the Rant room or pm me if need be.

After what you said, maybe we should try to find the guys who made the Klingon Bible and see what their process was and how they did it.  I mean, if the bible has been translated once before into a fictional (or not-so-fictional anymore  ;) ) language, it can be done again, and probably with some similar patterns.


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Offline Col Quaritch

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Re: Bible in Na'vi
« Reply #192 on: May 08, 2010, 09:51:15 pm »
/face palm! Why the heck none of us thought about this till now amazes me, thank you for bringing this up. Let the hunt began for them.


Offline Mithcoriel

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Re: Bible in Na'vi
« Reply #193 on: May 09, 2010, 03:44:31 am »
For the record, I didn't say it was impossible, just that it would be hard. Nothing wrong with pointing out it's gonna take some time. And some of the words we need, chances are Frommer's gonna take a long time to invent them cause they're totally not his top priority. Like the word "slavery". Pandora totally doesn't need that word, but the bible does.
Ayoe lu aysamsiyu a plltxe "Ni" !
Aytìhawnu ayli'uyä aswok: "Ni", "Peng", si "Niiiew-wom" !

Offline Col Quaritch

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Re: Bible in Na'vi
« Reply #194 on: May 09, 2010, 09:45:46 am »
Yea I know this is something were working on as well possible solution to be posted soon, but for now off to church then to spend the day with mom. Happy Mothers day to everyone else.


Offline Neytiri Na'Vi

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Re: Bible in Na'vi
« Reply #195 on: May 13, 2010, 12:44:42 am »
Hey, This is WAY COOL!!! If there is anything I can do to help, Please let me know I have done extensive research on the bible all the way back to the peleo Hebrew. Which by the way Modern Hebrew is VERY similar to Na'Vi. Email me at: [email protected] if you want more info or if you would like my help with the correct transliteration. The KJV by the way, has EXTESSIVE transliterational errors!!!... Anyway, I offer help if you want it let me know....
Irayo, Neytiri.

Offline Muzer

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Re: Bible in Na'vi
« Reply #196 on: May 13, 2010, 05:58:58 am »
TBH, there are so many mistranslations and idioms that have been poorly translated in the Bible, it is a very good idea to start as early as possible - but even then I'm sure a significant amount of the meaning has been lost to the ages. Just look at some of the parts that seem either completely random and weird or make no sense at all - there are an awful lot of these in the English bible - I don't know how much this is reflected in the more original versions of the Bible, but I'd hazard a guess at saying it's quite a bit, considering the English bible hasn't changed much.

I am an atheist, but I have a respect for the Bible as an important literary work in humankind's history, so it would indeed be a great project to try to translate it as well as possible. It's just how possible this is I am not all together sure of.
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Offline Col Quaritch

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Re: Bible in Na'vi
« Reply #197 on: May 13, 2010, 08:42:08 am »
Dont know bible history too well if you can make that statement. The dead sea scroll for expample point out just how accurate our bibles have been down through the ages, as to the idoms and mistranslation which do you mean which version of the bible can I can tell there are some no bible scolar in the world would agree is a proper translation the NWT being one of them. I welcome your views but as to the bible errance I would have to dissagree you with you there after a 20 year study I have yet to find one and when I first started I was looking for them. This project althougth limited due to the language we wish to translate too has done some amazing steps towards that and will continue to do so.


Yours in Christ Jesus


Offline tsyal tsamsiyu

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Re: Bible in Na'vi
« Reply #198 on: May 13, 2010, 09:40:22 am »
Hey, This is WAY COOL!!! If there is anything I can do to help, Please let me know I have done extensive research on the bible all the way back to the peleo Hebrew. Which by the way Modern Hebrew is VERY similar to Na'Vi. Email me at: [email protected] if you want more info or if you would like my help with the correct transliteration. The KJV by the way, has EXTESSIVE transliterational errors!!!... Anyway, I offer help if you want it let me know....

I'd love to help also, though I have limted time (I barely have time to skim this thread) Naytiri & I know each other offline so I can put in some of that help through her. My major suggestion is try to focus on the original languages into Na'vi instead of ANY english translation. You're asking for disaster to translate a translation. For example, Jesus in hebrew was Yeshua Na'vi might put it more Yetswa.
tsyal

Offline Muzer

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Re: Bible in Na'vi
« Reply #199 on: May 13, 2010, 12:29:49 pm »
Dont know bible history too well if you can make that statement. The dead sea scroll for expample point out just how accurate our bibles have been down through the ages, as to the idoms and mistranslation which do you mean which version of the bible can I can tell there are some no bible scolar in the world would agree is a proper translation the NWT being one of them. I welcome your views but as to the bible errance I would have to dissagree you with you there after a 20 year study I have yet to find one and when I first started I was looking for them. This project althougth limited due to the language we wish to translate too has done some amazing steps towards that and will continue to do so.


Yours in Christ Jesus

Well, though I never specifically studied the Bible, I've heard stories about mistranslations from quite a few reputable books, which I backed up myself by searching online and finding quite a few equally reputable sources agreeing. A quick google also finds plenty of sources, though obviously not all of them that believable; the sheer volume, however, should be at least an indicator, and I'm sure if you looked through that list there would be quite a few valid ones. http://www.google.com/search?client=opera&rls=en-GB&q=bible+mistranslations&sourceid=opera&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8
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