Author Topic: Bible in Na'vi  (Read 72705 times)

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Offline `Eylan Ayfalulukanä

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Re: Bible in Na'vi
« Reply #200 on: May 13, 2010, 02:39:37 pm »
The idea of working from the original languages is already well established for this project. Naytiri, your input will be most welcome here. I am presently working on some fundamental Na`vi learning tools as well as trying to build vocabulary and perfect pronunciation (Spent a good part of a day with Omängon Frauti a couple weeks ago. That was a real eye-opener!). After that is done (and I have essentially lost the next five days due to work), I hope to be spending some serious time getting some infrastructural ideas ready to help all involved do their best work.

Yawey ngahu!
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Offline Neytiri Na'Vi

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Re: Bible in Na'vi
« Reply #201 on: May 14, 2010, 03:58:05 pm »
I, as an intermediate scholar in Biblical Hebrew  Both modern and Paleo... Think that it would be best to leave God's name as it should have always been in the Hebrew tetragramation of YHVH. Reason being is that it is a VERY sacred name and should not be changed or messed with. Same as the Hebrew name of Y'Shua The Christ, or Messiah which was changed wrongly into Jesus, when it should have also been left alone. There is a curse written in Revelations that CLEARLY says will be put on those who "Add or take away from scripture as it was originally written. I believe some have already suffered from this curse for the changes that have been made throughout time to now. I think that this curse would be much worse for those who change the proper HOLY name of God!!!

Id like to insert here a quite from The institute of Scripture Research:
"The Name of the Almighty to any translation of the Scriptures
should require no justification. After all it was the Almighty himself who originally
placed his name in the Scriptures at least 6 823 times! It was human beings who decided,
for reasons that made sense to them, to delete His Name and to replace it with something
“more appropriate” in their view. This, in spite of the Creator’s own statement to and
through Mosheh (Moses) that: “This is My Name forever, and this is My remembrance to
all generations.” (Shemoth / Exodus 3:15, The Scriptures - 2009 Edition (ISR).
    The reference in this passage is to the Name which, in Hebrew, consists of four letters
Yod, Hey, Waw, Hey, and which is frequently referred to as ‘The Tetragrammaton’.
These letters are often brought across into English characters by the use of the four let-
ters, YHWH (or as YHVH). This has been variously pronounced as YaHWeH,
YaHoWeH, YaHuWeH, YaHVeH, etc. We have chosen not to enter the pronunciation
debate, but rather give the Name exactly as it appears in the unpointed Hebrew text, i.e.
YHWH.
    While there has been some debate over what is the most accurate and precise pronun-
ciation, three things are clear however:
    Firstly, the word Jehovah is definitely an erroneous pronunciation. This is so because
it derives from a combination of the letters JHVH and Hebrew vowel points belonging to
an altogether different word. Incidentally, the J was originally pronounced as a capital I
(or Y), and thus the term Jehovah would have been read by early readers of the King
James Version as Iehovah (or Yehovah).
    Secondly, any one of the various attempts to pronounce the Name is infinitely superior
to the actual removal of the Name, and its substitution by an altogether different term!
Substitution by a ‘good’ term does not alter the fact that it is a substitution, a replacement
word. Further, some of the terms traditionally substituted for the Name are actually the
names of pagan deities! This is true, not only in English, but also in the other languages
of the world!
    Thirdly, in spite of the above facts, many translations perpetuate a “tradition” of sub-
stituting “LORD” or “GOD”, all in capital letters, for our heavenly Father’s chosen
Name, YHWH. Why? Many, and varied are the reasons which have been given, amongst
both Christian and Jewish communities, for this serious error. Nevertheless, the fact
remains that a translation purporting to be literal, yet resorting to the “device”, however
well intentioned, of adding and subtracting from our heavenly Father’s own choice of
Personal Name, would be doing a grave disservice to His cause. At best it would display
ignorance, but at worst would show disrespect, or blatant disregard for the plain Word of
the Almighty Himself!
    This is a matter that the ISR has taken seriously from the very beginning. In the 1993
edition of “The Scriptures” we stated: “The Scriptures differs radically from most other
translations in that it does not continue in the tradition of substituting the Name of the
Father and of the Son with names ascribed to gentile (pagan) deities. All the names of
deities which in the past have been ascribed to the Father, the Son, and even used when
engaged in worship, have been avoided”. Our position has NOT changed.
    But surely He has many Names, one may ask? Not so! Men have called Him by many
names, and indeed there are many titles by which He is known in Scripture (mistakenly
called ‘names’ by some), but there is only ONE Name by which He urges us to remember
Him to all generations! That is the Name YHWH! You may be surprised to find that the
expression “I AM”, quoted by so many people from Shemoth /Ex. 3:14 as the special
Name of the Almighty is not His special Name at all. It is in fact a declaration made by
Himself, as He leads up to His statement in verse 15 that His Name - the one by which
He is to be always remembered - is HWHY. The actual term translated in 3:14 as “I am” is
only used in the Tanach (Old Testament) 30 times. The remaining 29 times it is NEVER
used as a proper name for the Almighty - as the Name YHWH is used. The Name YHWH is
used throughout the Tanach, both before and after this passage, a total of 6 823 times in
the Masoretic text of the Tanach alone. A rose, by any other name may smell just as sweet,
but clearly this is not the case with YHWH! One may not simply substitute His Name with
that of a pagan deity, be it God, Gott, Zeus, Theos, Pan, Allah, Lord, Lordo, Lard,
Hlafweard, or any other. Nor can we refer to Him by even a generic Lord, referencing
Krishna, Vishnu, or any other “Lord” of choice. Doing so is to attribute to another the
work, power, esteem and wisdom which belongs only to YHWH Elohim (Yeshayahu /Isa.
42:8). By His Name YHWH, He is to be distinguished from all “other deities”.
    Many misguided individuals are under the false impression that, for instance, the
words “Lord, LORD, God, GOD, Adonai or HaShem are “translations” of the Name of
the Almighty. Nothing could be further from the truth! Consider once more the passage
quoted above (Shemoth / Ex. 3:15) in which the ELOHIM (Heb. = “Mighty One”) of
AÄraham, YitsÁaq and Ya’aqoÄ declares that his Name is YHWH and that this Name is to
be His remembrance to all generations. Should this not then be the case in this generation
also?
    While names, especially in the Scriptures, frequently do have meanings, it is erroneous
to think that we should call anyone or refer to anyone by the “translation” of his or her
name. And the same holds true in Scripture. Giuseppe in Italian corresponds to Joseph in
English; however, Giuseppe Verdi cannot be translated as Joseph Green in English, even
if that is what it means in English! The proper name of any individual is not translated; it
is always transliterated or transcribed in order to approximate its original pronunciation.
We repeat: the proper name of any individual is simply not translated, more especially
when we are dealing with the most important Ones: the Most High (For all of these reasons,
we have returned these Most Set Apart Names to their rightful YHWH) and His Son!"


Irayo, Neytiri.

Offline `Eylan Ayfalulukanä

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Re: Bible in Na'vi
« Reply #202 on: May 15, 2010, 01:07:41 am »
Very interesting post Naytiri!

I fully agree with you about the name of God. Since we are in the new covenant, and not the old, a lot of the 'mystique' observed about God becomes just 'religion'. I really believe that God is very pleased when we use His name, even if it is not pronounced exactly as He would pronounce it. Thus, my use of Yawey, or the use of Yawä by a German speaker are both valid, as they represent attempts, filtered through the strengths/limitations of the language in question to properly pronounce the name of God. Since these are meant in respect or reverence of the most holy God, I don't think He objects to slight mispronunciations. That said, I doubt He objects to substitutes that are intended to convey the same meaning. This is the one of the concepts  that I think God was trying to say when He commanded us to 'worship Him in spirit and in truth'. Worshiping in spirit I would construe to mean (among other things) to make an honest attempt at worship, and this is acceptable, even if it isn't exact. The meaning of the act is far more important. 'Truth' means that we mean what we say and are not just giving God lip service.  That said, since YHWH is used in Hebrew scripture, we should use a pronunciation close to YHWH (given the limitations of our own languages) for His name. I think that the Jews erred in not just using God's name the way He gave it to us. Although they might have indeed been worshipping 'in spirit' doing this, I think God loves to hear his name just as we love to hear ours.

Your input here on this subject is very valuable. But I wiuoldn't go so far as to say it is the last word on the subject-- at least, not yet. I know Col Quaritch feels very strong on this subject. He would like us to leave a lot of the names untranslated at first. (I am proposing putting untranslated words in curly braces {} to make the stand out from anything else.) That way, there is no squabbling over pronunciations. This means that 1. We will not provide a translation in the Na`vi text until we are reasonably sure we have the transliteration right; and 2. This makes it easier for people posting translations to English dialects, or other languagees, to use the terms for names that are consistent with their language. Thus, the 'official' version posted on the master site, will have, for example, YHWH untranslated. But my reading copy will have Yawey in these places, because this copy is specific to my learning, and reflects how I have historically learned the term. BEfore we can

You are the very kind of person I was hoping would come along, and help set this matter straight. There is much we have to learn, and input like this will help immensely. Enjoy!

Yawey ngahu!
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Offline Col Quaritch

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Re: Bible in Na'vi
« Reply #203 on: May 15, 2010, 10:22:05 am »
PRAISE GOD
I mean wow what can you say after reading those last few post. Dose my heart good to see when I started this so long ago to now see how it has grown with the people who wish to see this become a reality. And again Praise God the vast knowledge that he has brought to this table for this work, to think I had no vast knowledge in navi or the bible other than my unwavering faith was going to try an tackle this. Naytiri hit it on the head where I have been trying in my Moses speach to get across GOD the GOD creater of everything his name important very important you not going to espcape his name from Old Testament to New lets face it he is the author of the books. This is a subject that I have labored on for some time, As I know some translations missuse or replace a name to make it sound better to the reader, thus why are are soooo many translations. I have said it before and will again if you have the tools the means to read and translation from the orginal language please do so. I think we should have a meeting real soon all our translators on some sort of instant messager skyp or the like. To really get this going I see some areas that will change from when we first started here and I pray it will be changes that make a very posstive step forward.

Muzer I'm glad your hear cuase what I see is a seeker one who is looking for truth, and your in luck your in the right place. My orginal post was going to be a bit more biteing but the Lord soften my heart and reminded me of where I once stood. Dont settle for hear say what others have said with out researching it. To truel study that bible is not just to read it but to dig in to really see where the author of the book is going, what is the topic the people their culturs. Its all there I can assure you if you take this journey with us in transcribing and bringing to light GODs word you will see the bible for what is truely is not just messages of the past but God's love for us now.

Dose anyone find it odd that Naytiri and Colonel Quaritch are working on the same project together?


Offline Eyamsiyu

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Re: Bible in Na'vi
« Reply #204 on: May 15, 2010, 10:37:45 am »
Dose anyone find it odd that Naytiri and Colonel Quaritch are working on the same project together?

No, because it's "Naytiri, not Neytiri.  A simple letter can change a lot.   ;D

But if letters didn't matter, then yes.  But then again, Quaritch may have had a change of heart...


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Offline Col Quaritch

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Re: Bible in Na'vi
« Reply #205 on: May 15, 2010, 12:19:25 pm »
phew I feel even better. Still blurried eyed from the surgey


Offline `Eylan Ayfalulukanä

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Re: Bible in Na'vi
« Reply #206 on: May 16, 2010, 02:55:34 am »
Wow! This is real progress!

I am through the first two days of a grueling convention (The National Translator association, but this is for TV and FM translators!). Reno is host city this year, so I am not only attending the convention but working it (sound guy). One more day left, but that should be easier. The a zoo tour, a transmitter site inspection. Monday, we have a traveling broadcast equipment roadshow in Reno. This will be an all day, well into the evening event. While this is all happening, I am trying to put together a package of five TV translators, and their associated outboard equipment, for a town about two hours south of here. This is one of those rare jobs you get where the town officials want the best available technology rather than the least expensive. To say I am busy is an understatement!

I am working through updating the vocabulary screensaver project when I have time. The update to match Taronyu's dictionary v10.0 is the biggest we will probably see for a while. Then, I need to update a couple other learning tools I have developed. Once this is all done, I should have better time availability to work on Bible stuff.

I'll pray for all of you. Colonel, I hope that surgery didn't have anything to do with having taken a couple bolts in the chest ;)

God bless!

Yawey ngahu!
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Offline Col Quaritch

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Re: Bible in Na'vi
« Reply #207 on: May 16, 2010, 08:00:15 am »
No no arrows but has to do with split and herniated disc. Hey we all heard of the NIV right New International Version, well.....let's call our project N.I.V. or in this case Navi Intergalactic Version? Not set in stone here just something I knoticd, yea this project is blessed


Offline Wähäyu

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Re: Bible in Na'vi
« Reply #208 on: May 19, 2010, 06:15:09 pm »
I, as an intermediate scholar in Biblical Hebrew  Both modern and Paleo... Think that it would be best to leave God's name as it should have always been in the Hebrew tetragramation of YHVH. Reason being is that it is a VERY sacred name and should not be changed or messed with. Same as the Hebrew name of Y'Shua The Christ, or Messiah which was changed wrongly into Jesus, when it should have also been left alone. There is a curse written in Revelations that CLEARLY says will be put on those who "Add or take away from scripture as it was originally written. I believe some have already suffered from this curse for the changes that have been made throughout time to now. I think that this curse would be much worse for those who change the proper HOLY name of God!!!

Does this mean that Paul made a big mistake when he sent his first letter to the corinthians?

1 Corinthians 1:1 παυλος κλητος αποστολος Ιησου χριστου δια θεληματος Θεου και σωσθενης ο αδελφος

He transliterated Y'Shua into Ιησου and translated YHWH into Θεου.
The word Θεου is found everywhere in the New Testament, and the same for Ιησου.

In the long run, I really doubt that words and etymologies are as important as the meanings behind them. I'm just remembering Paul's speech beginning at Acts 17:22.

I do think that it's a good idea to transliterate Y'Shua/Ιησου as Yeso(a), and maybe use both YHWH/Yawä and maybe Swoktu. (At least I think that's a valid Na'vi word. Correct me if I'm wrong.)

These are just my thoughts. :-\
« Last Edit: May 19, 2010, 06:37:46 pm by Wähäyu »

Offline Eyamsiyu

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Re: Bible in Na'vi
« Reply #209 on: May 19, 2010, 06:25:18 pm »
I, as an intermediate scholar in Biblical Hebrew  Both modern and Paleo... Think that it would be best to leave God's name as it should have always been in the Hebrew tetragramation of YHVH. Reason being is that it is a VERY sacred name and should not be changed or messed with. Same as the Hebrew name of Y'Shua The Christ, or Messiah which was changed wrongly into Jesus, when it should have also been left alone. There is a curse written in Revelations that CLEARLY says will be put on those who "Add or take away from scripture as it was originally written. I believe some have already suffered from this curse for the changes that have been made throughout time to now. I think that this curse would be much worse for those who change the proper HOLY name of God!!!

Does this mean that Paul made a big mistake when he sent his first letter to the corinthians?

1 Corinthians 1:1 παυλος κλητος αποστολος Ιησου χριστου δια θεληματος Θεου και σωσθενης ο αδελφος

He transliterated Y'Shua into Ιησου and translated YHWH into Θεου.
The word Θεου is found everywhere in the New Testament, and the same for Ιησου.

In the long run, I really doubt that words and etymologies are as important as meanings behind them. I'm just remembering Paul's speech beginning at Acts 17:22.

I do think that it's a good idea to transliterate Y'Shua/Ιησου as Yeso(a), and maybe use both YHWH and maybe Swoktu. (At least I think that's a valid Na'vi word. Correct me if I'm wrong.)

These are just my thoughts. :-\


I somewhat agree on this.  I do say that the importance of his name is great, but to use his exact name unchanged from the earliest forms of the Bible I find to be on the lines of fundamentalist (or extremist).  His name must remain sacred, but if it inhibits the meaning behind his word and the message it brings, I would bet it is not as important.  And I'm no voice of God, but I think he'd rather have people love him for what the Bible says he is through all there is rather than for the exact name for him.

... I don't know if that made sense, but all I can say is I agree: getting the point across to those that read the word is much more important than making sure that the name is correct and completely unchanged.


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Offline Col Quaritch

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Re: Bible in Na'vi
« Reply #210 on: May 19, 2010, 07:17:34 pm »
Guess its time for me to step forward as project leader again and make some things clear on this subject. As I have stated before I have labored hard in spirit on this question of the names in the bible both old and new, espicaly any that pertain to our Lord and creature God or GOD depending how you write that. It was first a thought that we try an make a Navi equal to the word Ewya but after much thinking on this subject and discussion this was quickly rulled out. Again it was left to me its project head to make those hard decsions I wish I had the knowledge that many of you posses that are bringing to the table to make this project a reality, but any translation I do will be from a current english version of the bible over into Navi till such time as I gain the tools and knowledge to understand and read the orignal text. Now that is not the point at this time names as they appear in the scripture is, weather that be from the just mear mention of Seth who was in the likeness of his father Adam to GOD himself all names have to be treated with the same rule for this translation to work. In many foreign languages it seems proper names remain the same, my name James is still James be that english or german with some minor differeance I understand some names do cary over diff but for the most part of my own understanding names remane the same. So this is final word from project leader, unless an offical Navi version of each an ever name comes along all names as they appear in the scriptures are to remain as they are. I understand that when it comes to YHWH and such there will be some debate on what is to use. All I can say is this, if the older manuscript i.e. orginal text wins out over any modern translation for those that posses that tool. For parts of the Navi bible that are translated from original text the print should be left as is, any translation that does not come from original scriptures should be put down as Italicized format. And any word that just simply there is no Navi word for that we are left to put down in English should be marked in brackets such as this {Slaves}. Again names remain as they are written, if you feel this is error on my part as your project leader feel free to pm me or email me and let us come together over this. My goal is to give all the glory to God for this and to give the best of our abilities.
Yours in Christ Jesus


Offline `Eylan Ayfalulukanä

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Re: Bible in Na'vi
« Reply #211 on: May 20, 2010, 02:01:24 am »
A good case in point to what Col Quaritch said above is the case of Jake Sully. His name remained Jake Sully, even though there is no 'J' in Na`vi. Remember that the 'no J' rule has more significance in written Na`vi, because technically, Na`vi is not a written language. In the case of spoken words, if the mechanism exists in the Na`vi body to produce the other sounds that are in the language, I am sure a 'J' can be pronounced after a fashion. (You will also notice that 'Jake Sully' is not listed among the proper names in Taronyu's dictionary. It is listed with illegal words, even if the name is valid, because it is phonotactically illegal). Thus, if there was a passage in the Bible that mentioned 'Jake Sully' in the original languages, it would be rendered {Jake Sully} in the Na`vi Bible.

Yawey ngahu!
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Offline Mithcoriel

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Re: Bible in Na'vi
« Reply #212 on: May 20, 2010, 03:07:07 pm »
What about making words ourselves, such as "Slave = captive-worker" or whatever the dictionary allows?
Only of course we'd have to collect such new words in a central databank, so that everyone uses the same.

If you just put em in {brackets}, I suspect there will be many paragraphs where one third of the words are english and in brackets..
Ayoe lu aysamsiyu a plltxe "Ni" !
Aytìhawnu ayli'uyä aswok: "Ni", "Peng", si "Niiiew-wom" !

Offline Col Quaritch

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Re: Bible in Na'vi
« Reply #213 on: May 20, 2010, 04:20:21 pm »
so long as the meaning is not lost I dont see a problem with words such as captive workers for slaves but the real question has been for proper names and how they should be treated. I feel so long as the message the translation of the meaning comes across then it will work for what we need to work against your will or captive workers such could mean indenture worker or slave. The translation and its meaning is very important thats what we must keep our eyes on and most importantly on him who we are trying to glorfy by this project.


Offline Col Quaritch

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Re: Bible in Na'vi
« Reply #214 on: May 21, 2010, 11:06:40 am »
Hey game me, your fearless leader. I have some big news in a day or two just need to make sure I have dotted all my T's and crossed all my i's befor I give the offical announcement. It should help us orginze our selves as a project team much better and best of all get the ball rolling here.


Your servent in Christ Jesus,

Col M Quaritch


Offline Col Quaritch

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Re: Bible in Na'vi
« Reply #215 on: June 01, 2010, 02:13:30 pm »
Ok bad me double poster, ok gang big I mean big change coming to improve our efforts and gather resources. What I need is every who is very serious about still working this project to sound off in a pm or here to let me know. Soon as I'm out of the hospital that big change hits and kick this project in overdrive. Thanks much , 


Your faithful servant to our Lord and GOD and savior.


Offline Olo'pizayu

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Re: Bible in Na'vi
« Reply #216 on: June 03, 2010, 05:25:40 pm »
I realize that this is probably something to post after having gone through all fifteen pages of the thread, but I've taken a stab at translating a few of my favorite verses/anything I could get my hands on/could remember off the top of my head. I've got a slightly-better-than-basic grasp of the Na'vi language and am completely ad-libbing the modifiers. I hope this isn't too littered with errors. Hover over the verse to see the literal translation, as close as I could get to KJV. Any words I couldn't work in are in parenthesis.

Also note please that I am copying this down from my hand-written notes, and I frankly have trouble reading my own handwriting. Some of the accents may be 'i' instead of 'ì' because it's just too hard to tell which I wrote.

John 3:16

Tafral Yawäyä tiyawn lu fitxan, niwotx pesu spaw teritsatu ketayerkup, slä tup rayey tì'i'avay krrä.


Genesis 1:1

Taw si kllte aynolgop fayawä misngä'ikrr.

1 Corinthians 13:1

Txo Oe plltxe faftxiya aytutey sì faftxiya aytireayä, slä tiyawn Oey ke, Oe slolu vä' au fu wok symbol.

I had to ad-lib the last word of 1Cor 13:1.
I enjoy this language. It means I can curse at people in it and they don't know what I'm saying. Of course, they often figure it out purely from the tone of what I say, but that's another problem.

Offline `Eylan Ayfalulukanä

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Re: Bible in Na'vi
« Reply #217 on: June 04, 2010, 02:09:53 am »
Welcome to the project, Olo'pizyu! I didn't by chance meet you at BayCon last weekend, did I?

Yawey ngahu!
pamrel si ro [email protected]

Offline Olo'pizayu

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Re: Bible in Na'vi
« Reply #218 on: June 04, 2010, 06:39:37 am »
No, you did not. You may have met me at Animazement last weekend in Rayleigh, NC. I met Robert Nantangä Tirea there, and his girlfriend, but I don't remember any other Na'vi cosplayers. I probably met you if you were there regardless, I hardly went to any of the panels because I spent so much time wandering around talking to random people.

Also, on the topic of this project, I'm working on a complete translation of Genesis Chapter 1 at the moment. I've got so far as verse 5 so far after about an hour of translation because I know so little practical Na'vi that I have to use the dictionaries for all the translation.
I enjoy this language. It means I can curse at people in it and they don't know what I'm saying. Of course, they often figure it out purely from the tone of what I say, but that's another problem.

Offline Col Quaritch

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Re: Bible in Na'vi
« Reply #219 on: June 04, 2010, 12:09:44 pm »
curious as to what navi word you found to come up with the name of God?


 

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