Author Topic: Bible in Na'vi  (Read 74443 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Tìmuiäyä'itan

  • 'Eveng
  • ***
  • Posts: 201
  • Karma: 6
  • fìtseng kllkxem oe ke tsun 'u alahe sivi
    • Ein feste Burg ist unser Gott
Re: Bible in Na'vi
« Reply #240 on: July 21, 2010, 02:13:09 am »
I'm also not sure who could decide on this... maybe the guy who owns this site (seabass? but he changed his name meanwhile, he's #1 in the NotW subforum)...
Or we start a thread somewhere with a poll about this question. If people don't like it, we could still go to wikia, but as this is a project from the community for the community...

I'm not yet sure how to organize things in a wiki, one example how such things could work is to be found here (Sorry folks, it's in German, but one can see the structure I think).

What we would need other than this would be some way of how to add gloss to the translated text, either in a table or just below the line, and an idea of how to get the gloss drawn from the whole text so we have the pure Na’vi. (then we'd need an own page to explain how gloss works and how to add it to the translation)

What I like about the wiki is that one can have footnotes to explain certain translational decisions (like "I used verb A as there is no Na’vi word for word B"). What we also could need is a time stamp for each translation (or does the wiki provide this by itself?) to see which parts are the most outdated - grammar and vocabulary-wise. Like this we could point people who just want to take a look to the "oldest" texts we have with a chance for them to find mistakes and contribute at best possible to the project.

I think we'd also need rules on how to set forth corrections (caution: this could go into debate on the meaning of certain verses, this is religion, and thus such things can lead into major conflict, so we'd need one guy to decide at some point on which decision to take).

Just some of my thoughts. So, first we'd need to check if we can use the wiki (still I have no clue whom to ask) and then we'd need to think about how to set up things there (which rules do we follow, who's in charge of what, how can one contribute in an orderly way)...

Kìyevame sì Yawä ayngahu!
srungìri ftära tsyokxìl ngeyä
ke ivomum futa pesuru
lu srung skiena tsyokxta ngeyä
ulte Jesus a nerìn ayfo pamlltxe
san sutehu lu keltsun
slä Yawähu frakem tsunslu sìk.

Offline Col Quaritch

  • Moderator Emeritus
  • Ikran Makto
  • *****
  • Posts: 841
  • Karma: 54
  • Navi! The other white meat.
Re: Bible in Na'vi
« Reply #241 on: July 21, 2010, 11:14:26 am »
problem with wiki anyone can just become a member and add or delte from it last thing I want is yahoos who think its funny to mess with our efforts. I beleive I have a better solution if you will give me just about a week more I'll let everyone Know more.


Offline Tìmuiäyä'itan

  • 'Eveng
  • ***
  • Posts: 201
  • Karma: 6
  • fìtseng kllkxem oe ke tsun 'u alahe sivi
    • Ein feste Burg ist unser Gott
Re: Bible in Na'vi
« Reply #242 on: July 21, 2010, 12:59:35 pm »
I think there are possibilities to restrict writing, but if you have another solution, that'd be even better, because we would then be on our own. If you need help setting any thing up, I'd like to help (though, I don't know what you are up to and so have no clue about in how far I could help)...

But you got me curious ;D

Yawä ngahu
srungìri ftära tsyokxìl ngeyä
ke ivomum futa pesuru
lu srung skiena tsyokxta ngeyä
ulte Jesus a nerìn ayfo pamlltxe
san sutehu lu keltsun
slä Yawähu frakem tsunslu sìk.

Offline Col Quaritch

  • Moderator Emeritus
  • Ikran Makto
  • *****
  • Posts: 841
  • Karma: 54
  • Navi! The other white meat.
Re: Bible in Na'vi
« Reply #243 on: July 21, 2010, 04:40:20 pm »
I think there are possibilities to restrict writing, but if you have another solution, that'd be even better, because we would then be on our own. If you need help setting any thing up, I'd like to help (though, I don't know what you are up to and so have no clue about in how far I could help)...

But you got me curious ;D

Yawä ngahu
Trust the old colonel you all are going to love this not to mention full control only by those on the project. And remember Curiosuity killed the blue cat LOL


Offline Tìmuiäyä'itan

  • 'Eveng
  • ***
  • Posts: 201
  • Karma: 6
  • fìtseng kllkxem oe ke tsun 'u alahe sivi
    • Ein feste Burg ist unser Gott
Re: Bible in Na'vi
« Reply #244 on: July 21, 2010, 05:01:49 pm »
Can't help my criosity, but of course I'll trust you, ma ’eyktan ;)
srungìri ftära tsyokxìl ngeyä
ke ivomum futa pesuru
lu srung skiena tsyokxta ngeyä
ulte Jesus a nerìn ayfo pamlltxe
san sutehu lu keltsun
slä Yawähu frakem tsunslu sìk.

Offline Col Quaritch

  • Moderator Emeritus
  • Ikran Makto
  • *****
  • Posts: 841
  • Karma: 54
  • Navi! The other white meat.
Re: Bible in Na'vi
« Reply #245 on: July 21, 2010, 05:39:21 pm »
Okay, its almost done I'm learning my way around but here it is gang we have our very own forum for this project! A place only the project team can edit and gather its resources and work as one on this project. Now I dont have my own domain name yet so using the free one that came with it is a tad long but I'll post the link here none the less. Please as part of this project team sign in useing your board name here other wise pm me here of a name change you wish to use so I know its you. All project members will have full editorial rights to this forum I am setting up. This is what I had been working on in my mind to gather all our eggs together. I love this board dont get me wrong but I feel its time to take our project to a corner of the web gather make our work perfect and as we do post those verses and chapters back here for all to read and enjoy rather than watch us stumble along like a pack of RDA (yes I went there and put the humans down blue people) So with out further ado here the increadibly long link,
http://biblenaviproject.freeforums.net.cn/index.htm?sid=c02f63f7973b516cd4cdcc8846f50274
Your project leader and servant in Christ Jesus


Offline Tìmuiäyä'itan

  • 'Eveng
  • ***
  • Posts: 201
  • Karma: 6
  • fìtseng kllkxem oe ke tsun 'u alahe sivi
    • Ein feste Burg ist unser Gott
Re: Bible in Na'vi
« Reply #246 on: July 21, 2010, 06:04:14 pm »
Irayo ma Col,

so what is the organizational plan for this? Have a thrad for each book in the forum and then a posting for each chapter? Plus further threads for discussion (maybe we'd need another subforum to hold discussions etc)?



My thoughts up to now that I see our new forum:
My thought with the wiki was to have one place that holds the outcome and another place to discuss (though I'm not a big fan of the wiki discuss pages).

But you are right, a wiki has the problem that it would be editable by anyone who would like to give us a tough time, although wm.annis said in another thread he'd see no problem in letting our project be worked on in the wiki...

One thought I have is: Maybe we can look whether there can be write restrictions to certain wiki pages only for project members, then we could hold the status quo bible text in the wiki for everyone to see, and we could have the discussion take place in our new forum?
srungìri ftära tsyokxìl ngeyä
ke ivomum futa pesuru
lu srung skiena tsyokxta ngeyä
ulte Jesus a nerìn ayfo pamlltxe
san sutehu lu keltsun
slä Yawähu frakem tsunslu sìk.

Offline Col Quaritch

  • Moderator Emeritus
  • Ikran Makto
  • *****
  • Posts: 841
  • Karma: 54
  • Navi! The other white meat.
Re: Bible in Na'vi
« Reply #247 on: July 21, 2010, 07:41:37 pm »
This was something discussed a while ago with a few of the top members I had asked to help me along the way and it was felt one central location we could have full edit rights over was needed. Wiki is a fine and not so fine place depending. Each person that is member of this project going to get full admin rights to this forum to help build it and make sections as needed, its not my forum its ours to the greater glory of God. I was just simply the person that went and started it. We have all discussed how we may gather resources into one location be that of biblical translations or navi language this is what Bible in Navi Project forum is for. I'm open to any and all ideals of what each section and catagory should be there. My thought was say Old Testament this is then broke down into each book and with in there the work that is being done by those working on it. Once a final translation is done say book of Proverbs both grammer and spelling of navi it will be placed in a finish section of the Old Testament section as well as republished here for all to read. The resourcse I have seen of both translations and of navi vocab seem to be spread here and there my thought was only for us as the bible translators to compile this all into one place for ease of use on our part.
My personal thought on this is instead of us all tackling a book of our choice such as John being my fav or such that we combine our efforts on to one book at a time I feel this could make it move along at a faster pace than we have been moving, mind you some of what we have so far is AMAZING. By all means please tell me what each of you think ither here or in pms.


Offline Tìmuiäyä'itan

  • 'Eveng
  • ***
  • Posts: 201
  • Karma: 6
  • fìtseng kllkxem oe ke tsun 'u alahe sivi
    • Ein feste Burg ist unser Gott
Re: Bible in Na'vi
« Reply #248 on: July 21, 2010, 09:13:43 pm »
I like the idea of working on one book all together. That woulöd mean, we wouldn't have to care too much about the structure of the forum yet, as we'll all circle around one book (I'd suggest something short like Philemon or Ruth, so we might have a quick result and something to show off -> advertisement, more people helping).

So, what do you all think: Which book should it be?

According to this list 3rd John is the shortest, while I have some thought of the letters all being a bit complicated due to their language. I'd vote for Jonah, for it is neither a letter (theoretical, we'll run into a lot of missing vocab) or a typical prophet (also theoretical, sometimes hard to find the meaning), while Jonah is more like a story told.


I'd say once we chose one, we should start a thread in the corresponding subforum and get going.
srungìri ftära tsyokxìl ngeyä
ke ivomum futa pesuru
lu srung skiena tsyokxta ngeyä
ulte Jesus a nerìn ayfo pamlltxe
san sutehu lu keltsun
slä Yawähu frakem tsunslu sìk.

Offline `Eylan Ayfalulukanä

  • Palulukan Makto
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 4767
  • us United States
  • Karma: 44
  • Palulukan alu Kenya 06/23/1996 - 01/15/2017
    • The Lionlamb website
Re: Bible in Na'vi
« Reply #249 on: July 21, 2010, 10:00:14 pm »
Sorry, I am in on these recent developments a bit late, as I have been absolutely swamped by other stuff.

Glad to see the Colonel is alive and kicking. I almost called you a couple of times in the last couple of weeks, but just plain ran out of time. I have been concerned about your lack of presence here, and have been keeping you in prayer. (I keep the large Col Quaritch collectable figure, with an equally large Na`vi figure behind him, both pointing their weapons in the same direction on my desk, to remind me to pray for you.)

As far as the wiki stuff goes, here are my thoughts:

Whatever structure is come up with to support the project, it needs to be a parallel project. There should be enough 'slots' (web pages, wiki pages, etc.) so that at minimum, each book can have a work area. These work areas would be freely accessible to anyone registered to work on the project, and would exist for organizational and logistical reasons only. There would also be a 'master area' where finished work could be 'displayed', and coordination information of interest to everyone could go. There are a lot of ways this could be organized at a finer level. For instance, if there is a thread devoted toa given book, or chapter of a book (that is not impractical), you could place the extant working text in the first post, and add to it as the verses are hashed out.

There are also very many private wikis out there that are part of some other organization. The LearnNavi wiki is an example of this. These wikis do not necessarily have to be open to everyone, or even most people. Any level of security can be set for them that is needed to sufficiently guard the integrity of the project.

A structure for organizing work-in-progress, as well as 'completed' work has been discussed extensively here. I was to come up with a more or less formal framework for this, but I have not succeeded in getting this done (this is due to lack of time, as well as concentrating my efforts in learning the language). This would essentially be an 'expanded interlinear', with one or more versions of the Na`vi text (for instance, one with affixes and infixes, etc. marked, and one without.) An English or other language track(s) showing the source language(s). This could easily be several language tracks for some books. Lastly, the gloss would be present, so that readers would understand how the syntax and grammar were derived for the translation.

Words that would remain untranslated for now (proper names, words with no Na`vi equivalent) would remain untranslated until it could be done practically. Examples {Heber} {Solomon} {The caul below the liver} If you look at the Klingon bible (or at least the edition I have), there are untranslated words in it as well.

I am glad to see this stuff being brought up now, so we have time to organize before the work begins in earnest.

As far as a source text goes, any good translation in your natural language will work fine. Some of us can work from the original languages, which is even better. I intend to use the New American Standard as my base text, as it is the most literal translation currently available. Old as it is, the KJV is also still very good in that respect. There is a new translation out, called the 'Net Bible', which is supposed to be the latest and greatest. It is also freely downloadable, which other good translations (such as the NASB) are not. Besides existing online, it also exists in print form, and the version I have seen is a rather impressive study bible.

I like the idea of a lot of folks working on one book. This could easily result in speeding up the work, especially for 'popular' books. That said, work on any one book shouldn't disallowed, either. With the changing nature of the language at this point, no one rendering of any text is likely to stand still. There will be plenty of opportunities for any interested party to contribute, for a long time to come.

I am still willing to host a master site, where the project could reside, and would be freely accessible to all interested parties. This site would have its very own (simple) domain name, and would not have any advertising, etc. involved with it. It would be seperable, so ownership of the entire site could be easily passed on to another entity (individual or organization) in the future. This is in keeping with the thought that no one person should 'own' this work, but that it should stand as a testimony to our Lord, but also a testimony to our love of the Na`vi language as well. Ultimately, a mirror site should be built as well, to keep this work in the public domain.

Personally, my situation could be changing a lot here. I have been nominated as president of a National exotic cat husbandry and conservation group. If I am elected, I am going to be very busy for the next two years. I feel that protecting our 38 species of living cats is a 'ministry' to which I have been called, as the Lord would that we be stewards of all the life He has put here. At no other time in history have we come so close as to wiping out these flagship species as we are now. And I feel that this calling is on me to help this organization continue to achieve this goal, now and for as long as the Lord tarries. And even if I am not elected, the animal rights folks are descending in droves on us right now, and it is very hard work to fend these folks off. They are on as much of a 'jihad' as any 'Islamic fundamentalist'. President or not, I will have to devote a large amount of my time to protect our God-given right to own, use, enjoy being with, eat, etc. animals. I will still actively participate learning Na`vi (which is now a long-term commitment for me, with the goal of mastery of the language), but don't know how much time I will have to actually translate stuff. Only the Lord knows how this will all settle out in the end!

Yawey ngahu!
pamrel si ro [email protected]

Offline Col Quaritch

  • Moderator Emeritus
  • Ikran Makto
  • *****
  • Posts: 841
  • Karma: 54
  • Navi! The other white meat.
Re: Bible in Na'vi
« Reply #250 on: July 22, 2010, 12:29:33 am »
Ok with all that said do you want me to keep the forum or dump it I was under the impression this was the right direction maybe I'm misunderstanding reading the net has that effect, can't always tell meaning of some post or I'm just old.


Offline `Eylan Ayfalulukanä

  • Palulukan Makto
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 4767
  • us United States
  • Karma: 44
  • Palulukan alu Kenya 06/23/1996 - 01/15/2017
    • The Lionlamb website
Re: Bible in Na'vi
« Reply #251 on: July 22, 2010, 01:35:15 am »
I just finally looked at what you have set up. I didn't realize from what you had posted that we have a *whole* forum to ourselves. It has the potential to be 'granular' enough to do what needs to be done. Especially the way you have set it up.

One nice thing about this is it is easy to set up topics that could be whole chapters, difficult passages, etc. And of course, there can be general forums for information for the entire project. Good start!

Yawey ngahu!
pamrel si ro [email protected]

Offline Tìmuiäyä'itan

  • 'Eveng
  • ***
  • Posts: 201
  • Karma: 6
  • fìtseng kllkxem oe ke tsun 'u alahe sivi
    • Ein feste Burg ist unser Gott
Re: Bible in Na'vi
« Reply #252 on: July 22, 2010, 07:11:42 am »
Ma Col,

I was trying to create a "Jonah" subforum, can't do it (no rights?). I thought I'd start with one or two verses with this book, to get things going and learn on how to use the forum...

Tam, I'll be doing it later ;)

Yawä ayngahu!

PS: I remember right we agreed {YHWH} for LOrd?
srungìri ftära tsyokxìl ngeyä
ke ivomum futa pesuru
lu srung skiena tsyokxta ngeyä
ulte Jesus a nerìn ayfo pamlltxe
san sutehu lu keltsun
slä Yawähu frakem tsunslu sìk.

Offline Col Quaritch

  • Moderator Emeritus
  • Ikran Makto
  • *****
  • Posts: 841
  • Karma: 54
  • Navi! The other white meat.
Re: Bible in Na'vi
« Reply #253 on: July 22, 2010, 08:58:57 am »
Ok thanks for letting me know I'll go back and check premissions fyi guys Im still learning this so please be paitent with me this is way way way new to me. (Edit) ok now that my brain is bleeding from all this new learning and working I beleive I have it fixed Timuiäyä'itan and TesterScott have full admin rights now. at least thats what the nice program tells me. So feel free to start helping put this forum together it belongs to all his workers for this project. Also would like it if someone could come up with a whole new style logo for the site that we can post up top let me know.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2010, 09:22:00 am by Col Quaritch »


Offline Tìmuiäyä'itan

  • 'Eveng
  • ***
  • Posts: 201
  • Karma: 6
  • fìtseng kllkxem oe ke tsun 'u alahe sivi
    • Ein feste Burg ist unser Gott
Re: Bible in Na'vi
« Reply #254 on: July 22, 2010, 12:14:03 pm »
OKay, got Jonah subforum done (and messed a bit around with colors and images, but all back to normal ;) just wanted to see how things work ::))

I think tonight or tomorrow early morning I'll be posting some Verses of Jonah... (that's the plan at least)

Yawä ayngahu
srungìri ftära tsyokxìl ngeyä
ke ivomum futa pesuru
lu srung skiena tsyokxta ngeyä
ulte Jesus a nerìn ayfo pamlltxe
san sutehu lu keltsun
slä Yawähu frakem tsunslu sìk.

Offline Col Quaritch

  • Moderator Emeritus
  • Ikran Makto
  • *****
  • Posts: 841
  • Karma: 54
  • Navi! The other white meat.
Re: Bible in Na'vi
« Reply #255 on: July 22, 2010, 01:02:37 pm »
excellent, yea I figured out how to give admin powers only thing you wont be able to do I beleive is delete the forum i.e. stop it all together not like any of you would.  :P TesterScott I got you set up the same so feel free to go in there an start learning and help out setting up.


Offline Tirea Aean

  • The Blue One
  • Olo'eyktan Anawm
  • Palulukan Makto
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 9966
  • nv Eywa'eveng
  • Karma: 243
  • Oeri ran lu srung
    • Tirea Aean
Re: Bible in Na'vi
« Reply #256 on: July 22, 2010, 01:45:52 pm »
OKay, got Jonah subforum done (and messed a bit around with colors and images, but all back to normal ;) just wanted to see how things work ::))

I think tonight or tomorrow early morning I'll be posting some Verses of Jonah... (that's the plan at least)

Yawä ayngahu

you know guys, I did this with my project NgayNume...made another forum...its a hassle and i think it distances the project from LN.org...

I can get Fish to make us a BIBLE in Na'vi subforum HERE if we need it... instead of just a thread in projects...sorry for bein late about this.

I kinda feel like taht would keep the project organized AND not have it be alienated from the LN forums. just my opinion. thoughts?

ta ngeyä brother in Christ,
Tirea

kelku ikranä a hawnventi yom podcast (na'vi-only): https://bit.ly/kelkuikranä
Learn Na'vi Discord Chat: https://discord.gg/learnnavi

Offline Tìmuiäyä'itan

  • 'Eveng
  • ***
  • Posts: 201
  • Karma: 6
  • fìtseng kllkxem oe ke tsun 'u alahe sivi
    • Ein feste Burg ist unser Gott
Re: Bible in Na'vi
« Reply #257 on: July 22, 2010, 02:03:51 pm »
I am still a bit thinking of using the wiki (wm.annis hinted that could be a possibility), then we'd stay here. Do you know if it would maybe be possible to have a wiki group of people that have right permissions to one new to build "bible" category?

Then we could maybe have our own wiki-group which controls this and only this category: bible, and we can have subpages and a portal and all that (maybe even automatic pdf export?). Like this we would not have the bible text in linear threads but each chapter or book on one page, easily readable and editable, central info could be gathered at centrally linked wiki-pages... and we would remain within this community...

But I feel bad about this as well because Col Quaritch already invested the effort to set up the forum, I don't like to start with a new medium again and again...

So, my heart is splitted up inside of me :(

Maybe you and the Col could have a little talk on this, because you seem to have the connections (you've already contributed greatly to the community and people know you) and the Col is the project eyktan.

As for me, I'm gonna follow what is decided, I am already feeling a bit annoying to others here coming up with new things again and again... ::)

ta ngeyä tsmukan mìHraisìt
Tìmiuäyäi'tan
srungìri ftära tsyokxìl ngeyä
ke ivomum futa pesuru
lu srung skiena tsyokxta ngeyä
ulte Jesus a nerìn ayfo pamlltxe
san sutehu lu keltsun
slä Yawähu frakem tsunslu sìk.

Offline Tirea Aean

  • The Blue One
  • Olo'eyktan Anawm
  • Palulukan Makto
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 9966
  • nv Eywa'eveng
  • Karma: 243
  • Oeri ran lu srung
    • Tirea Aean
Re: Bible in Na'vi
« Reply #258 on: July 22, 2010, 03:47:18 pm »
I am still a bit thinking of using the wiki (wm.annis hinted that could be a possibility), then we'd stay here. Do you know if it would maybe be possible to have a wiki group of people that have right permissions to one new to build "bible" category?

Then we could maybe have our own wiki-group which controls this and only this category: bible, and we can have subpages and a portal and all that (maybe even automatic pdf export?). Like this we would not have the bible text in linear threads but each chapter or book on one page, easily readable and editable, central info could be gathered at centrally linked wiki-pages... and we would remain within this community...

But I feel bad about this as well because Col Quaritch already invested the effort to set up the forum, I don't like to start with a new medium again and again...

So, my heart is splitted up inside of me :(

Maybe you and the Col could have a little talk on this, because you seem to have the connections (you've already contributed greatly to the community and people know you) and the Col is the project eyktan.

As for me, I'm gonna follow what is decided, I am already feeling a bit annoying to others here coming up with new things again and again... ::)

ta ngeyä tsmukan mìHraisìt
Tìmiuäyäi'tan

Yeah, I understand...About the wiki, I believe it is possible to do that. I didnt wanna come in and crash stuff, just wanted to possibly make it easier. Col, let me know if you want me to request a subforum for this...I really think a subforum with many topics will be more productive than a single thread...and if you choose the wiki route, I have spoken to okrìsti, who maintains it, and he believes it is possible to do what this project wants to do there. update on the way after he tests that.

kelku ikranä a hawnventi yom podcast (na'vi-only): https://bit.ly/kelkuikranä
Learn Na'vi Discord Chat: https://discord.gg/learnnavi

Offline `Eylan Ayfalulukanä

  • Palulukan Makto
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 4767
  • us United States
  • Karma: 44
  • Palulukan alu Kenya 06/23/1996 - 01/15/2017
    • The Lionlamb website
Re: Bible in Na'vi
« Reply #259 on: July 22, 2010, 03:48:17 pm »
I wish that all of us that were serious about this could get together and talk all these details through. All of the points brought up are valid points, and worthy of discussion. At this moment though, I think the main thing we all agree on is that a single, linear thread like what we have here will not work in the long term.

Yawey ngahu!
pamrel si ro [email protected]

 

Become LearnNavi's friend on Facebook Follow LearnNavi on Twitter! Watch LearnNavi's videos on YouTube

SMF 2.0.17 | SMF © 2017, Simple Machines | XHTML | RSS | WAP2 | Site Rules

LearnNavi is not affiliated with the official Avatar website,
James Cameron, LightStorm Entertainment or The Walt Disney Company.
All trademarks and servicemarks are the properties of their respective owners.
Images in the LearnNavi.org Forums and Gallery may not be used without permission.

LearnNavi Affiliates:
ToS

LearnNavi is the community to learn Na'vi, the Avatar Language
"A place where real friendships are made." -Paul Frommer

AvatarMeet | Learn Na'vi Forum | Learn Na'vi Wiki | Na'viteri

LearnNavi