Poll

What should the Name of (Judeo-Christian) God being in Na'vi?

'Elohim
Yawe
Yawey
Eywa
'Elohim

Author Topic: God's Name  (Read 3649 times)

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Offline Stranger Come Knocking

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Re: God's Name
« Reply #20 on: January 25, 2012, 04:13:39 pm »
So if I wanted to say something like "Elohim, God on high" would it be something like "'Elohim, Yawey mì frato tìkxayl"? (And where to put "ma"?)

IMHO, you have the right idea in how you translated this, showing how we need both Yawey and Elohim. If you are addressing God (as if in prayer), you would put the ma before the beginning. Otherwise, I don't think you need a ma there at all.

In general, particles of address work in English like O (someone).
I know what "ma" does, just not quite where it goes here. ??? *pokes my siggy* The full line is "Elohim, God on high, can you hear your people cry?" It seems like it should before Elohim, but I would like some confirmation. :)


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Offline Eltu Lefngap Makto

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Re: God's Name
« Reply #21 on: January 25, 2012, 04:21:17 pm »
So if I wanted to say something like "Elohim, God on high" would it be something like "'Elohim, Yawey mì frato tìkxayl"? (And where to put "ma"?)

First of all, you have some apposition going on (two phrases/words referring to the same thing), so there's got to be an alu in there somewhere.

Second, 'Elohim' is the Hebrew word for 'God', so you're asking how to say, "God, God on high"  :D
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Offline Stranger Come Knocking

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Re: God's Name
« Reply #22 on: January 25, 2012, 04:23:04 pm »
So if I wanted to say something like "Elohim, God on high" would it be something like "'Elohim, Yawey mì frato tìkxayl"? (And where to put "ma"?)

First of all, you have some apposition going on (two phrases/words referring to the same thing), so there's got to be an alu in there somewhere.

Second, 'Elohim' is the Hebrew word for 'God', so you're asking how to say, "God, God on high"  :D
I don't control the movie. >< I'm just ralpengyu ._.

Edit: Besides, if Elohim is god and Yawey is God (I AM), then it seems to be different.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2012, 04:24:37 pm by Tanhì Mì Ton »


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Offline Eltu Lefngap Makto

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Re: God's Name
« Reply #23 on: January 25, 2012, 04:50:42 pm »
Wait, I'm confused.  ???  You first asked for how to say, "Elohim, God on high".  I just meant a Hebrew word never say that.

'Elohim' is not a name, is a class of object.  It is used as a name often, just like 'Donkey' in Shrek is a donkey.  All things being equal, we would get a word in Na'vi someday that answers the question, "I know she's not a tute, but what kind of thing is Eywa?"

Yahweh is a proper name.  Transliteration is cool and no translation should be expected.
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Offline `Eylan Ayfalulukanä

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Re: God's Name
« Reply #24 on: January 25, 2012, 09:36:41 pm »
Wait, I'm confused.  ???  You first asked for how to say, "Elohim, God on high".  I just meant a Hebrew word never say that.

'Elohim' is not a name, is a class of object.  It is used as a name often, just like 'Donkey' in Shrek is a donkey.  All things being equal, we would get a word in Na'vi someday that answers the question, "I know she's not a tute, but what kind of thing is Eywa?"

Yahweh is a proper name.  Transliteration is cool and no translation should be expected.

Since Elohim is used frequently as a name (and at minimum, a kind of pronoun), perhaps keeping it as Elohim is probably just as well. It is used 2,300 times for God, and less than 10 percent of the time for something else, including deity in the plural.

As far as Elohim, Yawey mì frato tìkxayl goes, the presence of a comma between Elohim and Yawey may eliminate the need for alu. But based on my understanding of the proper use of alu, it can certainly be used there, to give Elohim alu Yawey mì frato tìkxayl, and I think this is more Na'vi-idiomatic.

And now that you have shown the context on how you plan to use the sentence, the ma best goes before Elohim.

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Offline Tirea Aean

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Re: God's Name
« Reply #25 on: January 25, 2012, 09:40:01 pm »
by the definition of alu, it is [I'd venture to say required to be] used with apposition such as "O God, God on high"

I'm still sketched out by "mì frato tìkxayl" although obviously I see what you did there.

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Offline `Eylan Ayfalulukanä

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Re: God's Name
« Reply #26 on: January 26, 2012, 02:28:07 am »
I kind of figured that alu would be needed here, after it was brought up. Prrton and I recently discussed this interesting and mysterious little word, and I still tend to miss using it when I should.

Another interesting problem here is that tìkxayl is not a legal word. Unless I am completely blind  ::) I do not see it in the dictionary. And it isn't even a recommendable tì- construction (this is why tì- is not productive)(but that said, it works here). What can we use in its place?

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Offline Alyara Arati

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Re: God's Name
« Reply #27 on: January 26, 2012, 06:20:03 am »
I kind of figured that alu would be needed here, after it was brought up. Prrton and I recently discussed this interesting and mysterious little word, and I still tend to miss using it when I should.

Another interesting problem here is that tìkxayl is not a legal word. Unless I am completely blind  ::) I do not see it in the dictionary. And it isn't even a recommendable tì- construction (this is why tì- is not productive)(but that said, it works here). What can we use in its place?

ma Elohim alu Swotute akxayl frato ???
Learn how to see.  Realize that everything connects to everything else.
~ Leonardo da Vinci

Offline `Eylan Ayfalulukanä

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Re: God's Name
« Reply #28 on: January 26, 2012, 03:26:45 pm »
I kind of figured that alu would be needed here, after it was brought up. Prrton and I recently discussed this interesting and mysterious little word, and I still tend to miss using it when I should.

Another interesting problem here is that tìkxayl is not a legal word. Unless I am completely blind  ::) I do not see it in the dictionary. And it isn't even a recommendable tì- construction (this is why tì- is not productive)(but that said, it works here). What can we use in its place?

ma Elohim alu Swotute akxayl frato ???

First of all, akxayl is an interesting suggestion. It is legal as a word, but does it 'fit' correctly?

I am beginning to wonder, especially with this new construction, if Yawey and Elohim shouldn't be swapped here. Since this is not scripture, keeping the pro/proper nouns in the correct order is not as critical, and I think the reverse order matches the sentence better.

Swotu is interesting, but not as a substitute for Yawey, as I think we all agree this is a proper noun. It might substitute sometime for Elohim, but I like your suggestion of this as a possible generic term for 'angel'. (And then, there is Cheribum and Seraphim!)

Yawey ngahu!
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Offline Stranger Come Knocking

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Re: God's Name
« Reply #29 on: January 26, 2012, 03:28:09 pm »
Another interesting problem here is that tìkxayl is not a legal word. Unless I am completely blind  ::) I do not see it in the dictionary. And it isn't even a recommendable tì- construction (this is why tì- is not productive)(but that said, it works here). What can we use in its place?
Assuming "God on high" means something along the lines of exalted, powerful, etc. maybe (for sake of tìkxayl replacement only)

Ma 'Elohim, Yawey anawm nìtxan...

Quote from: Tirea Aean
I'm still sketched out by "mì frato tìkxayl" although obviously I see what you did there.


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I dug my grave in this
Will I go before I fall
Or live to slight the odds?

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Offline Stranger Come Knocking

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Re: God's Name
« Reply #30 on: January 26, 2012, 03:31:02 pm »
I am beginning to wonder, especially with this new construction, if Yawey and Elohim shouldn't be swapped here. Since this is not scripture, keeping the pro/proper nouns in the correct order is not as critical, and I think the reverse order matches the sentence better.
But...but... :'( 12/14 languages I've heard use Elohim at least for the first one, Hebrew included.  And it matters to me.

>_>


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I dug my grave in this
Will I go before I fall
Or live to slight the odds?

This is my book.  You should check it out.  Speculative sci-fi murder mystery.

Offline `Eylan Ayfalulukanä

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Re: God's Name
« Reply #31 on: January 27, 2012, 02:17:00 am »
I am beginning to wonder, especially with this new construction, if Yawey and Elohim shouldn't be swapped here. Since this is not scripture, keeping the pro/proper nouns in the correct order is not as critical, and I think the reverse order matches the sentence better.
But...but... :'( 12/14 languages I've heard use Elohim at least for the first one, Hebrew included.  And it matters to me.

>_>

Then you have excellent precedence to keep things as-is. I like how you think!

Yawey ngahu!
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Offline Eltu Lefngap Makto

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Re: God's Name
« Reply #32 on: January 27, 2012, 09:49:57 am »
Ma Tanhì, can you give me a verse you're wondering how to translate?  I'm honestly confused.  ???
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Offline Stranger Come Knocking

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Re: God's Name
« Reply #33 on: January 27, 2012, 03:21:32 pm »
Ma Tanhì, can you give me a verse you're wondering how to translate?  I'm honestly confused.  ???
*pokes siggy* Not a verse, a line from the Prince of Egypt. 8)


Quote from: `Eylan Ayfalulukanä
Then you have excellent precedence to keep things as-is. I like how you think!
I feel like the victim of a drive-by joke. ??? Or else something clearly revelatory that my little mind can't quite comprehend ._.


I will not die for less
I dug my grave in this
Will I go before I fall
Or live to slight the odds?

This is my book.  You should check it out.  Speculative sci-fi murder mystery.

Offline `Eylan Ayfalulukanä

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Re: God's Name
« Reply #34 on: January 27, 2012, 03:38:41 pm »
Ma Tanhì, can you give me a verse you're wondering how to translate?  I'm honestly confused.  ???
*pokes siggy* Not a verse, a line from the Prince of Egypt. 8)

So, that is where it is from. You had previously identified it as 'not being scripture'.

I think it is tewti nang that you are translating 'Prince of Egypt'. That is a little-known movie that was very well done. After looking at your translation project, I had some of the music from the film stuck in my head the rest of the day! I would offer to help, but I have my hands full with 'The Lion King', and scarcely have time to give that the attention it deserves. But like Tirea Aean, I will 'stick my head in' from time to time and see how things are going.

BTW, what is the deal with your admittedly cute siggy? I click on him, and nothing happens.

Quote from: Tanhì Mì Ton
Quote from: `Eylan Ayfalulukanä
Then you have excellent precedence to keep things as-is. I like how you think!
I feel like the victim of a drive-by joke. ??? Or else something clearly revelatory that my little mind can't quite comprehend ._.

It is not a joke at all. You have done your homework, and proved my hunch incorrect. And I do like the way you are approaching things on this project, and thinking things through. Everyone involved in this project brings something different to the table, and this is a good thing.

Yawey ngahu!
pamrel si ro eylan.falulukana@gmail.com

Offline Stranger Come Knocking

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Re: God's Name
« Reply #35 on: January 27, 2012, 03:49:05 pm »
*pokes siggy* Not a verse, a line from the Prince of Egypt. 8)

So, that is where it is from. You had previously identified it as 'not being scripture'.

I think it is tewti nang that you are translating 'Prince of Egypt'. That is a little-known movie that was very well done. After looking at your translation project, I had some of the music from the film stuck in my head the rest of the day! I would offer to help, but I have my hands full with 'The Lion King', and scarcely have time to give that the attention it deserves. But like Tirea Aean, I will 'stick my head in' from time to time and see how things are going.

^^ *feels special*

BTW, what is the deal with your admittedly cute siggy? I click on him, and nothing happens.
Are you addressing me? *looks around* Um...sadly, Willy Wonka is not clickable. ??? I don't recall stating that he was.

Quote from: Tanhì Mì Ton
I feel like the victim of a drive-by joke. ??? Or else something clearly revelatory that my little mind can't quite comprehend ._.

It is not a joke at all. You have done your homework, and proved my hunch incorrect. And I do like the way you are approaching things on this project, and thinking things through. Everyone involved in this project brings something different to the table, and this is a good thing.
What homework?  What hunch? *is confused* What exactly am I thinking through?  Something just went way over my head. :'(


I will not die for less
I dug my grave in this
Will I go before I fall
Or live to slight the odds?

This is my book.  You should check it out.  Speculative sci-fi murder mystery.

Offline Eltu Lefngap Makto

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Re: God's Name
« Reply #36 on: January 27, 2012, 04:02:18 pm »
In the interest of time, which hapxì is the quotation in question in?  :)
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Offline Stranger Come Knocking

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Re: God's Name
« Reply #37 on: January 27, 2012, 04:08:26 pm »
In the interest of time, which hapxì is the quotation in question in?  :)
I took it out because there just got to be too many quotes.

*ahem*

"Elohim, God on high (can you hear your people cry)?"

() for perspective only. :)


I will not die for less
I dug my grave in this
Will I go before I fall
Or live to slight the odds?

This is my book.  You should check it out.  Speculative sci-fi murder mystery.

Offline Eltu Lefngap Makto

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Re: God's Name
« Reply #38 on: January 27, 2012, 04:13:56 pm »
Oh, OK.

In the interest of staying on topic, can we say enough people have voted to make the permanent, translation-committee decision

LORD/Yahweh/יהוה = Yawey

 ???  ::)  :D

We can, of course, keep debating other particulars...
'Ivong, Na'vi!

Offline Stranger Come Knocking

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Re: God's Name
« Reply #39 on: January 27, 2012, 04:17:46 pm »
Oh, OK.

In the interest of staying on topic, can we say enough people have voted to make the permanent, translation-committee decision
;D There is that, isn't there?

KTsEST = Ke Tsun Eltu Sivi Tìngäzìk = Na'vi ADD = as coined by Tirea Aean.
 
LORD/Yahweh/יהוה = Yawey

 ???  ::)  :D

We can, of course, keep debating other particulars...
I'd say the majority has spoken.


I will not die for less
I dug my grave in this
Will I go before I fall
Or live to slight the odds?

This is my book.  You should check it out.  Speculative sci-fi murder mystery.

 

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