Author Topic: The Best OS?  (Read 3666 times)

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Offline Kekerusey

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The Best OS?
« on: October 07, 2012, 06:51:14 am »
We're all gonna have different opinions on this and I#'m sure it's been done to death but `Eylan Ayfalulukanä decided elsewhere he wished to take it beyond the level of the joke comment I made in another thread so I have suggested we move it here :)

The other answer, of course, is to get him on a real operating system, like Linux...

Pah! Delusional  ;D

(Off-topic mode entered)
(soapbox mode entered)  ::)
Oh, you want to pick a fight,  do you  ;)

I have been running Linux as my primary OS for about 15 years now. During that time, I have had 0 viruses, 0 trojans, 0 rootkits, and 0 spambots. Most of those years, I didn't even need to run a firewall, and my computer isn't being reduced to sluggish speeds by a virus checker. My computer runs just about as fast on 8 year old hardware as a new 'power user' computer runs some OS whose name ends with a 7.  ;) My 'uptime' has been well over 99. I have not had any 'involuntary reboots' for updates, and when updates are done, most of the applications are updated with the OS. I have enjoyed great flexibility in configuring just about any aspect of my OS, and have done a few minor kernel hacks in the early days. The source code for everything is readily available, and my entire bill for software in those 15 years (not counting special applications) is well under $300.

(/soapbox)
(/off-topic mode)

Soapbox all you like mate but Windows is, in my not so humble opinion, a far better operating system, runs the latest software, the latest hardware and is supported in a fashion that Linux simply isn't (by which I mean the way EVERY Linux person I've ever met will eventually walk away from a problem they can't resolve ... trust me, it's happened to me several times) ... ultimately I cannot prove that, it's my personal view, but then neither can you ;D

Linux is nice and I'm sure, for those who are willing to put the time and effort in, a perfectly competent OS and I will happily play with it from time to time but when I want to get something done I use Windows. It also happens to be my opinion in a work scenario ... yes they introduce Linux systems in some areas (along with both Unix and Solaris and so on) but here's the thing ... on several occasions they (the project leaders) have had to change their minds, step back and re-orient a largely *nix project into a Windows one because they simply could not do what they were trying to do and Windows server systems managed the task quite effectively. Also, curiously I think, whenever the successfully introduced *nix system is required to do anything truly useful (you know, like produce some reports or otherwise inform people what the hell is going on) what do you think they do? That's right ... they have a Windows machine do it. It’s not for lack of enthusiasm or expertise but they always turn to Windows to do these things.

Ultimately I'm not biased against Linux, I've used it a fair bit including solidly once for a 6 month period as my main system before I gave up (though these days I admit it's mostly a case of installing a distro looking at what I've installed, thinking, "That's pretty", wondering what to do with it and then going back to Windows so I can do something useful).

Congrats to you for not getting viruses etc. … but then congrats to me for not getting them either. My computer runs the very latest stuff because that’s what I like doing … I don’t want to run 8 year old kit, I want the latest and greatest and as long as it has no apples on or about it’s being I’m happy doing so. Linux however has a slight problem with the latest hardware and it’s called drivers … even Linux needs those and the Linux community doesn’t tend to bother writing for the latest kit and certainly not specific kit drivers (the ones that make a piece of hardware run optimally) they prefer generic drivers which for most stuff is fine though dull. The latest kit however is usually, in my experience, a no no and results (as I said above) in the nice, oh so friendly and helpful, Linux community support people walking away. Doesn’t typically happen in the Windows support community (not saying it can’t, just not typically).

Congrats to you for using open source … I do too and (looking at Sourceforge) I think there might be more Windows open source out there than Linux (perhaps because there are more systems to write for) however, with rare exceptions, I have found purchased or shareware software offerings to be superior to open source but again that’s just my opinion and (obviously I hope) I have not had the opportunity or inclination to use/test each and every one.

I don’t have 99 percent uptime it’s true but that’s because I’m energy conscious and turn my PC off when I’m not using it. That said I do have a fairly energy efficient Windows 2008 R2 server which (holidays and automatic patch reboots aside) has been running continuously since April this year with (guess what?) no issues at all.

So, is Linux the better OS? Truth is I have no idea and I strongly suspect that neither do you. I suspect you are as much driven by your biases as I am and indeed Apple [expletive deleted] users are. A badly maintained OS is a wondrous (and appalling) thing to behold but the simple fact is that most problems are caused (or allowed to happen) by the users and not the OS and a well maintained OS is, as above, a wondrous although beautiful thing to behold … and to use ;D

Enjoy using Linux (I’m sure you do, I’m sure I might if I wasn’t the person I am and, of course, doing the job I do) but please drop the implicit assumption that Windows users don’t know any better … I do (so do an awful lot of others) and I use Windows as a matter of personal preference and experience. Indeed most of my friends work in IT and all of them choose Windows as their OS, that’s largely true of my team as well (and before anyone suggests otherwise we are server support so all of us well beyond base level engineers).

This’ll make a good Geekanology blog post with a bit of editing so thanks for bringing it up, LOL ;D

Keke
« Last Edit: October 07, 2012, 07:17:43 am by Kekerusey »
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Re: The Best OS?
« Reply #1 on: October 07, 2012, 01:53:50 pm »
Best OS is IMO that which suits perfectly to one's needs. So one person finds Linux the best, another one Windows.
I'm very conservative user and enemy of  any so called "progress", so my favorite is Windows XP. Newer windows always remake everything, so what was at the left is now at the right, what was easily accessible you now can reach through 5 menus....
Not saying about all stupid animations - what they bring to me?
As I'm mostly using just web browser and few simple applications, I don't need support for new powerful hardware, which stops to be powerfull when you install antivirus SW :)
My philosophy is - what works well doesn't need to be replaced just because something newer is available. On the other side I bought notebook a year ago as I had need for better graphic card a didn't want to invest money into old computer. But I'm not happy with Win7 it was shipped with.

For some time I was Linux user too and found it as good system. But it needs more knowledge to use and maintain it than for windows - what is reason why most people do not use it.
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Offline Tirea Aean

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Re: The Best OS?
« Reply #2 on: October 07, 2012, 02:22:57 pm »
I've been a Linux only user for a few years now and prefer it because FOR ME (key words) it does all I need to use my computer for. This is mostly because it was convenient for CS projects in college and ssh scp natively in a terminal without needing to install more software etc etc

And it costs me nothing to download and install. I am too cheap to spend hundreds on an OS when I don't personally NEED any of its distinguishing features. Many people DO need those and good on them for going out there, buying it, and suiting their needs.

I'm generally just a fan and user of Linux and Android and Google, and not so much Apple and Microsoft. But for people who use those products because their needs are met by using them and they are happy, great for them.

I actually really don't like it it when Linux power users become elitists and bash every other OS. In seriousness. (This also applies to Apple and Windows power users) To such Elitists, I say Go and buy whatever hardware you want, and install or use whatever operating system will get the job done that you need done, to your own satisfaction. Stop telling other people about how crappy you think what they use is and that everyone else should be like you and use what you use because you think it is superior. Everyone has different needs and freedom to use whatever they feel is useful and are comfortable with.

I AM known to joke a lot about iOS and Maps or whatever or whenever Widows gets BSOD I might make a joke (I have been there before, thats a big reason why i dont use windows at all: it(Vista) crashed beyond hope of repair on my laptop) Or when Mac gets the Beach ball and stuff like that. I recognise that Linux has a Huge problem with being compatible. You cant just go slip your disc in and install anything on it you can in Win/Mac and expect it to run. Wine is not magic. Certain jobs call far certain software that is just not compatible with Linux. And it seem to be The Thing these days to make software "Mac/Windows" compatible, completely abandoning Linux users. Which makes sense for developer companies because of 1%ish Linux market share.

Seriously though. At the end of the day.

# Use what you want.
# Show and Tell them about what you use so they are aware of it and are free to choose to use it if they feel like it
# Don't in seriousness criticize others for not using the same thing.
« Last Edit: October 07, 2012, 02:32:10 pm by Tirea Aean »

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Offline Kekerusey

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Re: The Best OS?
« Reply #3 on: October 07, 2012, 03:03:19 pm »
Quite right too ... each unto his own.

Well as long as it's not Apple ... I think it's important for true rationalists to hate apple, just like it's important that the British hate the French

Keke

p.s. no serious Windows user extols the virtues of Vista. Why? It had none ... duh!!!! ;)
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Re: The Best OS?
« Reply #4 on: October 07, 2012, 03:04:17 pm »
LOL.

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Offline Taronyu Leleioae

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Re: The Best OS?
« Reply #5 on: October 07, 2012, 04:50:33 pm »
Quote
Well as long as it's not Apple ... I think it's important for true rationalists to hate apple, just like it's important that the British hate the French

Keke

p.s. no serious Windows user extols the virtues of Vista. Why? It had none ... duh!!!! ;)

Where's the "LIKE" button?


From a personal user, to each their own and each desktop OS has its own strength for certain functionality.  For example, if I were passionate about digital media and graphics design, I'd most likely get a MAC as they still have some of the most optimum systems.

The issue comes in when you get into networks and the corporate environment.  It's true that finally Apple supports SOME Active Directory (Microsoft Server OS environment) interoperability.  But then you need a MAC OS X server or two or three, then extra file sharing and translation servers, and you still don't have proper file sharing permissions capability.  All $$$$$$ when you already had the Microsoft System in place.  Not to mention training, management, and more than one admin knowing how to fix it when it breaks...

And linux, except for a standalone, really doesn't play along either from the SysAdmin point of view.  (Similar file sharing as Apple.)

Thus I think it depends on your needs, your investment, your applications...

An interesting random fact from a few years ago, Mid and Lrg size companies...
Approx 90% servers are Windows Based.
9.9% are Linux.  (Mostly RedHat although CentOS is picking up a little...)

I think the one application that I have yet to find to actually work, is a windows remote desktop functional interface for linux server OS's.  IE use a windows laptop with native remote desktop access to linux servers.  All proprietary of course by Microsoft...  :(

Offline `Eylan Ayfalulukanä

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Re: The Best OS?
« Reply #6 on: October 08, 2012, 12:19:38 am »
Soapbox all you like mate but Windows is, in my not so humble opinion, a far better operating system, runs the latest software, the latest hardware and is supported in a fashion that Linux simply isn't (by which I mean the way EVERY Linux person I've ever met will eventually walk away from a problem they can't resolve ... trust me, it's happened to me several times) ... ultimately I cannot prove that, it's my personal view, but then neither can you ;D

Interesting. About the only place Windows reigns supreme is on the desktop.
But Linux runs the latest software as well. It just doesn't (in most cases) run the same software. For instance, have you tried OpenOffice? For most people, OpenOffice will do practically any productivity task you need. Its native format (.odt, etc.) is now so popular that Office had to be modified to support it. And best of all, its FREE. And you can download and study the source code.

Meanwhile, around 70 percent of the Internet backbone is Linux.

Linux will run on the latest hardware, and take full advantage of it. But because it isn't internally 'bloated like a dead hippo', it will run fast on any hardware you are likely using. Part of the reason for this is Linux bypasses the cumbersome hardware access via the BIOS, and accesses the hardware directly.

Quote from: Kekerusey
Linux is nice and I'm sure, for those who are willing to put the time and effort in, a perfectly competent OS and I will happily play with it from time to time but when I want to get something done I use Windows.

And what is it you are doing? I get 100 percent of what I am doing done without a copy of Office (or any of its predecessors or similar programs like Works) anywhere in the house.

Quote from: Kekerusey
It also happens to be my opinion in a work scenario ... yes they introduce Linux systems in some areas (along with both Unix and Solaris and so on) but here's the thing ... on several occasions they (the project leaders) have had to change their minds, step back and re-orient a largely *nix project into a Windows one because they simply could not do what they were trying to do and Windows server systems managed the task quite effectively.

I have had this happen exactly once, and the causative agent was a bad piece of software (running in Windows) that had to be accommodated, rather than fixed. This system is currently being re-engineered, and should be all Linux when finished.

Quote from: Kekerusey
Also, curiously I think, whenever the successfully introduced *nix system is required to do anything truly useful (you know, like produce some reports or otherwise inform people what the hell is going on) what do you think they do? That's right ... they have a Windows machine do it. It’s not for lack of enthusiasm or expertise but they always turn to Windows to do these things.

Hmmm.... I'm not having to use Windows here to pay my bills, do my bookeeping, write reports, or any number of other daily things. Windows systems will do these things as well, but even on those machines I usually use open source software. As far as'most people', when it comes to alternatives for their computer, they have 'taken the blue pill'. They simply don't know something better is out there because they are bombarded with Windows ads. Few open source programs are advertised at all. Their fame spreads by word of mouth.

Quote from: Kekerusey
Ultimately I'm not biased against Linux, I've used it a fair bit including solidly once for a 6 month period as my main system before I gave up (though these days I admit it's mostly a case of installing a distro looking at what I've installed, thinking, "That's pretty", wondering what to do with it and then going back to Windows so I can do something useful).

I wonder how many years ago that was. I had to do that at first, when Linux was little more than an experiment. But by the time the 2.0 kernel series hit, everything was working pretty solidly.

Quote from: Kekerusey
Congrats to you for not getting viruses etc. … but then congrats to me for not getting them either. My computer runs the very latest stuff because that’s what I like doing … I don’t want to run 8 year old kit, I want the latest and greatest and as long as it has no apples on or about it’s being I’m happy doing so.

I got Windows viruses in the strangest places in the days when Windows was my primary OS. I have had to deal with a virus on the LAN at work (where many computers cannot run virus protection because they need every ounce of processor power to do what they do, or the virus checker would disrupt real-time operations in the computer). I enjoy the simplicity of an OS that is inherently secure. *Nix has been inherently secure since day 1.

Like it our not, Apple OS X is based on FreeBSD, another open source *NIX. I take care of a number of OS X boxes, and they generally just work (But yes, I have some serious issues with Apple's ways of doing things, enough that these computers will likely be replaced with something that is not Apple.

[
Quote from: Kekerusey
Linux however has a slight problem with the latest hardware and it’s called drivers … even Linux needs those and the Linux community doesn’t tend to bother writing for the latest kit and certainly not specific kit drivers (the ones that make a piece of hardware run optimally) they prefer generic drivers which for most stuff is fine though dull. The latest kit however is usually, in my experience, a no no and results (as I said above) in the nice, oh so friendly and helpful, Linux community support people walking away. Doesn’t typically happen in the Windows support community (not saying it can’t, just not typically).

I generally only have driver problems when I run some strange, often antiquated piece of hardware. If a particular piece of hardware is in common use, there is a suitable driver available.

Quote from: Kekerusey
Congrats to you for using open source … I do too and (looking at Sourceforge) I think there might be more Windows open source out there than Linux (perhaps because there are more systems to write for) however, with rare exceptions, I have found purchased or shareware software offerings to be superior to open source but again that’s just my opinion and (obviously I hope) I have not had the opportunity or inclination to use/test each and every one.

I use open source Windows software wherever I can. 'Open source' is a more important qualification than 'Windows'.

Quote from: Kekerusey
I don’t have 99 percent uptime it’s true but that’s because I’m energy conscious and turn my PC off when I’m not using it. That said I do have a fairly energy efficient Windows 2008 R2 server which (holidays and automatic patch reboots aside) has been running continuously since April this year with (guess what?) no issues at all.

My computer is one of the few areas where I am *not* very 'green'. I like to run distributed computing applications, which run when I am not using the computer. I have been seriously looking at solar power, and if I go that route, one of the first things to be fired up on solar will be the computer system.

Automatic patch reboots?? What are those?  ;)

Quote from: Kekerusey
So, is Linux the better OS? Truth is I have no idea and I strongly suspect that neither do you. I suspect you are as much driven by your biases as I am and indeed Apple [expletive deleted] users are. A badly maintained OS is a wondrous (and appalling) thing to behold but the simple fact is that most problems are caused (or allowed to happen) by the users and not the OS and a well maintained OS is, as above, a wondrous although beautiful thing to behold … and to use ;D

I have chosen Linux because I grew tired of a closed-source OS that had to be periodically updated for $$$. I see Microsoft is finally getting the message and the upgrade to Windows 8 will be inexpensive (but it will try and turn your computer into a tablet!).

Quote from: Kekerusey
Enjoy using Linux (I’m sure you do, I’m sure I might if I wasn’t the person I am and, of course, doing the job I do) but please drop the implicit assumption that Windows users don’t know any better … I do (so do an awful lot of others) and I use Windows as a matter of personal preference and experience. Indeed most of my friends work in IT and all of them choose Windows as their OS, that’s largely true of my team as well (and before anyone suggests otherwise we are server support so all of us well beyond base level engineers).

The vast majority of the people don't work in IT or engineering. To these 'unenlightened' folks, there is only Windows. Engineers and IT folks can make their choices. But I do feel sorry for them, when they choose Windows.

Quote from: Kekerusey
This’ll make a good Geekanology blog post with a bit of editing so thanks for bringing it up, LOL ;D

Keke

Rip and tear!
'Eylan

[/quote]
« Last Edit: October 08, 2012, 12:56:46 am by `Eylan Ayfalulukanä »

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Offline Kekerusey

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Re: The Best OS?
« Reply #7 on: October 08, 2012, 02:44:51 pm »
But Linux runs the latest software as well. It just doesn't (in most cases) run the same software. For instance, have you tried OpenOffice? For most people, OpenOffice will do practically any productivity task you need. Its native format (.odt, etc.) is now so popular that Office had to be modified to support it. And best of all, its FREE. And you can download and study the source code.

Rubbish … most corporate datacentres are predominantly windows, certainly I’ve never been in one (one that runs a huge variety of corporate applications and not just webservers) that isn’t.

Of course I’ve run open office … I install it on any PC I build that the owner wants a free office software suite. It’s an entirely competent package … it’s just not as good as MS Office. Indeed on PC’s I give away on FreeCycle I Install Linux … unless of course they have a valid Windows license then I give them what they actually want, LOL.

Meanwhile, around 70 percent of the Internet backbone is Linux.

Discounting all the hardware routers (cisco equipment and similar) and other essential routing hardwares I’m sure but let’s get this straight … where does it state that (somewhere objective please)?

Linux will run on the latest hardware, and take full advantage of it. But because it isn't internally 'bloated like a dead hippo', it will run fast on any hardware you are likely using. Part of the reason for this is Linux bypasses the cumbersome hardware access via the BIOS, and accesses the hardware directly.

No it won’t because Linux uses generic drivers not specific ones. If that was true then every Windows system would use a simple generic driver and the hardware alone would be the significant factor but that isn’t true, drivers are VERY specific to hardware. The Linux community doesn’t have the time of specific expertise to develop the very latest and most specific drivers.

And what is it you are doing? I get 100 percent of what I am doing done without a copy of Office (or any of its predecessors or similar programs like Works) anywhere in the house.

That would take far too long to explain … I have requested help on many things in Linux communities and it has not been deliverable. You can believe me or not as you want that’s as much information as I can be bothered to give.

I have had this happen exactly once, and the causative agent was a bad piece of software (running in Windows) that had to be accommodated, rather than fixed. This system is currently being re-engineered, and should be all Linux when finished.

Good for you … for us many times! Maybe you just don’t try hard enough?

Hmmm.... I'm not having to use Windows here to pay my bills, do my bookeeping, write reports, or any number of other daily things. Windows systems will do these things as well, but even on those machines I usually use open source software. As far as'most people', when it comes to alternatives for their computer, they have 'taken the blue pill'. They simply don't know something better is out there because they are bombarded with Windows ads. Few open source programs are advertised at all. Their fame spreads by word of mouth.

Lovely … doesn’t answer my point though.

I wonder how many years ago that was. I had to do that at first, when Linux was little more than an experiment. But by the time the 2.0 kernel series hit, everything was working pretty solidly.

Oh a long time but I have tried several times and for extended periods since, not for as long admittedly and whilst there has been significant improvement so has there been in Windows … I mean WTF is a BSOD? 0h I know of course but you really don’t get them these day, not with a recent version of windows that is properly maintained.

I got Windows viruses in the strangest places in the days when Windows was my primary OS. I have had to deal with a virus on the LAN at work (where many computers cannot run virus protection because they need every ounce of processor power to do what they do, or the virus checker would disrupt real-time operations in the computer). I enjoy the simplicity of an OS that is inherently secure. *Nix has been inherently secure since day 1.

As I said before the primary reason for Windows issues is ignorance and that ignorance is, of course, great because Windows systems are just about everywhere and far, far more prevalent than Linux as personal PC’s. Likewise they are more targeted for exactly the same reason. Oh, and another reason, due to the nature of Linux its users tend to be more technically savvy.

Like it our not, Apple OS X is based on FreeBSD, another open source *NIX. I take care of a number of OS X boxes, and they generally just work (But yes, I have some serious issues with Apple's ways of doing things, enough that these computers will likely be replaced with something that is not Apple.

Thank you for the history lesson … I am well aware that Apple systems are based on Darwin Unix, even tried to run it (albeit because it was such a cool name) on an ordinary PC without success. Guess why it wouldn’t? My hardware was too new, ROFLMAO.

I generally only have driver problems when I run some strange, often antiquated piece of hardware. If a particular piece of hardware is in common use, there is a suitable driver available.

Not my experience!

I use open source Windows software wherever I can. 'Open source' is a more important qualification than 'Windows'.

Not in my opinion.

My computer is one of the few areas where I am *not* very 'green'. I like to run distributed computing applications, which run when I am not using the computer. I have been seriously looking at solar power, and if I go that route, one of the first things to be fired up on solar will be the computer system.

And I’d be first in line to say I’m impressed if you did so but right now … null points!

Automatic patch reboots?? What are those?

[SHRUG] Something that happens when it must, less than it used to and late at night so broadly speaking I don’t care!

I have chosen Linux because I grew tired of a closed-source OS that had to be periodically updated for $$$. I see Microsoft is finally getting the message and the upgrade to Windows 8 will be inexpensive (but it will try and turn your computer into a tablet!).

And I have chosen Windows because it works for me and is relevant to my work … perhaps if I’d started out on Linux I might be different? Perhaps if I could be arsed to learn a different way of doing things I would … fact is I don’t want to and Windows works better for me and no Linux evangelist is likely to field adequate arguments to change that view. That said I will continue to experiment with new distro’s that interest me and maybe (just maybe) I’ll find the one that truly interests me. If I do I will switch.

I get Technet Pro so getting whatever MS software I want is really not expensive especially since any one of my immediate family (we currently have something like 10 PC’s in the house so the average cost is minimal) and even some of my friends can therefore get the latest stuff for free :)

The vast majority of the people don't work in IT or engineering. To these 'unenlightened' folks, there is only Windows. Engineers and IT folks can make their choices. But I do feel sorry for them, when they choose Windows.

And by the same token those users would not be savvy enough to use Linux effectively and if, by some chance the Linux evangelist’s dream of gaining “Top Dog OS” position came true guess what? Linux would no longer be the same OS you love so very much … it would become the OS to hate, exactly as Windows is now!

Rip and tear!

All in good time … since you’re committed to arguing me over what was a joke, let’s play this out eh? After all, it’s just possible you might make some really valid point. ;D

Keke
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Offline Tirea Aean

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Re: The Best OS?
« Reply #8 on: October 08, 2012, 02:57:16 pm »
Is not the most valid, objective point here Use what you want if it suits your needs? Why the flame bait? Or is this just for lols? I'll go get my popcorn and watch this up until stuff gets personal.

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Offline Kemaweyan

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Re: The Best OS?
« Reply #9 on: October 08, 2012, 02:59:14 pm »
Holy war!!!!!!!!! ;D ;D ;D
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Offline Tirea Aean

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Re: The Best OS?
« Reply #10 on: October 08, 2012, 03:04:15 pm »

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Offline Kekerusey

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Re: The Best OS?
« Reply #12 on: October 08, 2012, 03:51:49 pm »
Is not the most valid, objective point here Use what you want if it suits your needs? Why the flame bait? Or is this just for lols? I'll go get my popcorn and watch this up until stuff gets personal.

I absolutely agree ... I actually like Linux in many ways, it's almost a holy grail of computing to me (it's like real as opposed to pretend computing if you understand what I mean?), just can't actually make it work for me! I really have tried :(

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Re: The Best OS?
« Reply #13 on: October 08, 2012, 04:00:04 pm »
Works for me ;)

I mean, even something super simple and fast like ChromeOS would suit most of my simple needs. It's just that Chromebooks are basically rubbish without an internet connection and all apps are web apps. To my taste, this is not ideal. but hey, to some people, who are ALWAYS connected and rely exclusively on cloud web apps ChromeOS on chromebook is miraculous perfection.

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Re: The Best OS?
« Reply #14 on: October 08, 2012, 04:22:10 pm »
super simple and fast like ChromeOS

Super simple and fast is KolibriOS :) It's written on ASM only. I tried it - works ;)
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Re: The Best OS?
« Reply #15 on: October 08, 2012, 05:37:23 pm »
Is not the most valid, objective point here Use what you want if it suits your needs? Why the flame bait? Or is this just for lols? I'll go get my popcorn and watch this up until stuff gets personal.
Mod mode: Yeah I'm keeping an eye on it because this can sometimes be a more sensitive topic than politics :P but people here rarely seem to fight so it should be fine :)

Troll mode: mac osx ftw!!

Offline Taronyu Leleioae

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Re: The Best OS?
« Reply #16 on: October 08, 2012, 07:32:10 pm »
Quote
Mod mode: Yeah I'm keeping an eye on it because this can sometimes be a more sensitive topic than politics but people here rarely seem to fight so it should be fine...

HRH!  Nah...  IT gurus don't get mad, they just send "spike" commands...   ;)

The most crucial thing to understand about Linux is this... most of it is cutting edge experimental, and there is hardly ever technical support.  AKA why most of it is free!!!

I think Linux has it's place!  And I suggest OpenOffice for many who cannot afford buying the overpriced MS Office package.  And I put Open Office in my training rooms because then I'm not using my MSDN or production Office keys (and killing the keys)...

So for desktops and laptops, sure!
  You can play with Linux.  It also means you have to fix it yourself or know someone who can.  Because BestBuy (a leading US chain electronics retailer..) won't fix what isn't mainstream. 

But when it comes to servers, when you want all the base functionality of hardware raid, Linux distros can be a real problem.  Ignorance has nothing to do with it.  Why?  The manufacturers themselves block it.  I'll give an example...  Ironically... DELL!  Oh wait, HP does the same thing btw...

In order to install an OS on a Dell rack server, and if you want full raid functionality, you have to use their downloadable pre-install disks.  Shoving the OS disk will fire it up ok, but then you never get the raid/backplane support drivers fixed.  You need these drivers to install the OS on the drives!  Plus, you have to prove and authenticate you are using an OS that Dell recognizes.  RedHat (paid/supported/expensive/commercial version of linux), is there.  But it will not allow proper install of Fedora or CentOS which are free versions of the basic RedHat kernal (core program).  And the ironic part, btw, is that the Dell install programs are Linux themselves...

Now, can you build your own server from SuperMicro, etc...?  Of course.  And that's what most people do.  But again, Kekerusey is absolutely correct about corporate datacentres.  (I know, I run one!)  Many servers come with leases and service agreements.  If it isn't an "approved" OS from the factory, warranty null and void.

So the real argument is two tiered. 

There is the specialized individual user who learned/trained on Linux, and does their own self support.  Tirea and Puvomun are two here on the site who do just that.  And there are plenty of forums out there.  I think there are some GREAT firewall programs out there that are free, and linux or FreeBSD based.  Monowall and PFSense just to name two.  And you can create very solid functional VoIP phone systems that you don't have to pay for that will run on a basic dual core desktop.  TrixBox.

Then there is the mainstream and corporate user who has bulk or partnership licenses, and occasionally has 3rd party or factory warrantied hardware that was delivered with specific configurations and support service.  This limits what you can do and why.  Plus... the one point that isn't being mentioned here directly, it's all well and good that YOU are skilled at linux.  But what about your department.  I have 8 IT Managers work under me.  Only one has Linux experience.  I need them to be able to service/support their sites...

And again, I'll point out that you cannot run the most common corporate domain system out there, Active Directory by Microsoft.  Group policy doesn't control/apply to Linux machines.  (Latest Mac's do have that separate download component to let you log on and authenticate, but that's about it...)

=================

So long-winded story...  As an individual, I agree that if you are skilled and experimental, then Linux (name your flavour) is a great OS and learning tool.  But it hardly supports the latest hardware nor takes advantage of all of it.  (Good luck getting some of the extra support chips in the latest ASUS graphics motherboards to play nice.  It barely works in Windows...  Then there are the wireless drivers in laptops...)  But I would never suggest Linux to any of my customers nor would I provide a Linux machine to any of my company users.  In the end, and I had fun in Linux classes, was that I don't as a sysadmin, have time to support it.  I have good friends who are highly skilled (especially at white hat - hacking for legit purposes) and that's the OS of choice.  But even they admit to using Windows from time to time because they need to...  Not everything runs properly in WINE...


Choose what works for you.  Choose what helps you succeed at your work and play.  Choose what helps you learn and be a better person...




Offline Kekerusey

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Re: The Best OS?
« Reply #17 on: October 09, 2012, 01:39:10 pm »
Now this is interesting (bearing in mind the fact that I previously said I couldn't find anything to do with Linux) ... I think I just have.

I have a whole bunch of fairly small SSD's that I've found I can't easily sell on eBay (pen drives are, I suppose, much easier to handle) so one of the guy's I usually sell stuff to sold me some 20 odd SATA drive cases for £2 each and I'm currently making bootable using something called Yumi. The nice thing about Yumi is you can progressively add other distro's, even Windows (although I don't want to do that because I would almost certainly run into licensing issues) so you end up with a multiboot drive which would include a number of Linux Live CD's and some diagnostic stuff, partitioning stuff and all sorts of useful goodies.

I'm really quite excited by this idea especially since I can then duplicate the disk I create (which will include a load of good quality open source software) and flog them on eBay ... obviously, as a techy, I will keep some for myself but hey I like eBay sometimes :)

Keke
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Offline Irtaviš Ačankif

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Re: The Best OS?
« Reply #18 on: October 10, 2012, 08:38:48 pm »
I just absolutely adore Debian Unstable (sid). It always gets the newest software (speedy kernels with super fast XFS support, whoo), and it is still way stabler than Ubuntu (Ubuntu's repos are a TOTAL mess and dist-upgrading destroys your OS if you use PPAs), way more usable than FreeBSD (drivers...), and way more ergonomic and customizable with its up-to-date GNOME 3 (please, don't bash!) default interface than Windows, Mac OS X, or any of the copycatters of the two.

Plus Wine is always nice to run Windows programs, and it is getting better by the day!

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Offline Tirea Aean

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Re: The Best OS?
« Reply #19 on: October 10, 2012, 08:41:30 pm »
Huh. I may just give that a try on my Laptop. Website/Download Link?

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