Author Topic: Windows 8(Beta)  (Read 9606 times)

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Offline Blue Elf

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Re: Windows 8(Beta)
« Reply #80 on: January 17, 2013, 01:03:08 pm »
I won't give up Windows 7 yet, even though I could have a free licence for Windows 8 Professional. Both can do exactly the same thing, except the first one is for PC, and the second one for tablet. End. (personal opinion)
Couldn't have said it better myself. I also can get 8 for free but refuse to take advantage of it.

8 is great for tablets, but effectively a downgrade on any normal desktop or laptop.
If you install Classicshell from sourceforge, it is usable system. But I don't see reason why to upgrade. Still think that XP was the best system ever.
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Offline Clarke

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Re: Windows 8(Beta)
« Reply #81 on: January 17, 2013, 06:28:53 pm »
Whenever I use XP, (my old desktop runs it) I always want for a start menu search. :(

Offline Vawmataw

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Re: Windows 8(Beta)
« Reply #82 on: January 17, 2013, 06:38:20 pm »
Windows XP is still popular. The most popular Windows version.

It maybe doesn't cost too much, so people buy it. When people will buy newer Windows versions?

For me, Windows XP is out-of-date.

I prefer Windows XD  ;D :

« Last Edit: January 17, 2013, 06:54:21 pm by Kameyu a Kepekmì »

Offline Taronyu Leleioae

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Re: Windows 8(Beta)
« Reply #83 on: January 17, 2013, 07:36:28 pm »
The two biggest problems with XP is the 32 bit version ram limit with memory utilization.  Even if you have 4GB of ram installed, it can only use upwards of 3.3GB pending how your computer utilizes memory for graphic (cache) processing.  Vista (sort of) and Windows 7 got around this by reprogramming the kernal (inner main program of windows) to recognize the additional ram (if 32 bit version).  It still can only use the 3.3GB.  But then the newer windows versions are smart of enough use the additional ram left over for something use.  Thus it "uses" the full 4GB of ram.  Obviously the XP 64 bit version did not have this problem...  (And I'm not focusing on better graphics rendering in later versions of windows desktop operating systems.)

The other issue with XP is vulnerability of viruses.  Because everything runs with "administrator" credentials, viruses and other exploits can take control of your XP computer.  The advantage of XP, of course, is that it's easier for programs to run since the programs are, by default, running with administrator credentials/permissions.

For the most part, I've grown to like Windows 7 in classic mode.  (Still dislike some of the graphics bonus features such as "shake".)

Interesting that when you have to work on program compatibility mode, the "default" that tends to work is XP with SP2...

As to Windows 8?  Not a fan.  I'll wait until SP1 comes out when they restore or give the option for classic "start button" functionality...


< this post written on an XP SP3 x86 desktop with 2GB of Rambus ECC ram...  And it still keeps chugging along...  
(And yes, I have an i5 behind me for other applications...)


« Last Edit: January 18, 2013, 09:05:53 am by Taronyu Leleioae »

Offline Vawmataw

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Re: Windows 8(Beta)
« Reply #84 on: January 18, 2013, 04:16:50 pm »
As to Windows 8?  Not a fan.  I'll wait until SP1 comes out when they restore or give the option for classic "start button" functionality...
I think you'll wait a long time for this, even you'll maybe die before. They never anounced that, so if you get Windows 8, you'll must adapt to do not have a star menu (but you can get ''on/off'' button).

On Windows 8:
To access to a software, you click at the corner (bottom left) and then press on the right button of your mouse and click ''all apps''. You can select the software you want.

You don't need start button ;)

Offline Swoka Ikran

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Re: Windows 8(Beta)
« Reply #85 on: January 19, 2013, 11:22:34 am »
As to Windows 8?  Not a fan.  I'll wait until SP1 comes out when they restore or give the option for classic "start button" functionality...
I think you'll wait a long time for this, even you'll maybe die before. They never anounced that, so if you get Windows 8, you'll must adapt to do not have a star menu (but you can get ''on/off'' button).
Or you can just install Ex7ForW8...to put the real Windows 7 explorer UI on a Win8 install. You get the real Win7 menu (not some clone), and it completely disables metro. The only thing you don't get is aero (which AFAIK there is no way to get back). You need a Win7 disk to install it.

I've been doing downgrades & start menu installations for a lot of people recently...I know exactly 2 people who actually like 8 on a desktop PC.

Some stats from Start8, Pokki, and Classic Shell seem to suggest that a large chunk of those who have 8 installed a start menu. Pokki's data is even detailed enough to show the menu is used an average of 10-15 times a day.

Also, here's some interesting marketing numbers: MS claims 60 million licenses sold, but less than 15m are believed to actually be in use by end-users. Even fewer are used as MS intended. The 60 million includes all licenses distributed. The 15 million is when you eliminate OEM licenses that are unused, returned licenses (yes you can return it), and licenses given to enterprise, that the companies didn't want.

And of course, if MS were smart, they'd add back the classic UI and charge extra for it. Many would certainly pay to buy the real thing, especially businesses.
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Offline Taronyu Leleioae

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Re: Windows 8(Beta)
« Reply #86 on: January 19, 2013, 03:42:54 pm »
Speaking on behalf of my company (which sadly just closed), I maintained the company licensing (we were a full Microsoft Partner).  I had the Windows 8 Enterprise production key (Partner, not MSDN).  We never used it once.  Only the CIO wanted it which came on his MS Surface tablet.  The concern was that our 500+ employees (let alone clients) wouldn't be able to be productive during the learning curve.  (And I'm willing to say that many wouldn't have adjusted to the metro layout.)  No one had a touch screen either.  So that's a 1000 (or whatever the key was good for) non activations.  We kept to the Windows 7 Enterprise distribution.  At least for the Enterprise edition, there should be a revert or alternate setting allowed to keep the traditional Windows 7 explorer look and functionality.  Aero we could live without...

Offline Swoka Ikran

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Re: Windows 8(Beta)
« Reply #87 on: January 19, 2013, 07:48:56 pm »
A lot of people I've spoken to all said the same thing about enterprise and Win8...lost productivity from the learning curve and extra helpdesk expenses from users not knowing how to use it. There's bound to be software compatibility issues too...

When I worked over the summer, we were in the middle of rolling out Win7 Enterprise. Half the company still had XP, but the number was dropping everyday. We were getting calls from people needing help figuring out 7 (including "Where's the start button?" since it no longer actually says "Start" on it). Imagine how that would've went with 8...
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Offline Vawmataw

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Re: Windows 8(Beta)
« Reply #88 on: January 19, 2013, 07:52:12 pm »
A lot of people I've spoken to all said the same thing about enterprise and Win8...lost productivity from the learning curve and extra helpdesk expenses from users not knowing how to use it. There's bound to be software compatibility issues too...

When I worked over the summer, we were in the middle of rolling out Win7 Enterprise. Half the company still had XP, but the number was dropping everyday. We were getting calls from people needing help figuring out 7 (including "Where's the start button?" since it no longer actually says "Start" on it). Imagine how that would've went with 8...
Learning how to use Windows 8 is normal and required. Maybe now we shouldn't use it at work, but after adapting and learning, it's easy to use.

You never buy an Ipad and start using it the first time like if it was the 100th time you use it.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2013, 07:55:32 pm by Kameyu a Kepekmì »

Offline Taronyu Leleioae

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Re: Windows 8(Beta)
« Reply #89 on: January 19, 2013, 08:41:50 pm »
Learning how to use Windows 8 is normal and required. Maybe now we shouldn't use it at work, but after adapting and learning, it's easy to use.
You never buy an Ipad and start using it the first time like if it was the 100th time you use it.

Ma Kameya a Kepekmì, I don't think you realize the economic impact of the problem in expense to a company.  It is one thing for one user to learn something new on their own.  But say you have a company that has 500 users.  Now you need to retrain those 500 users to learn Windows 8 hoping that all the programs they've used, still are compatible.  In our case, we had some legacy (meaning old and non upgradeable) programs that were 10 years old...  Now if you pay these employees an average of $20/hour and it takes, for example, 2.5 hours to train them, you are looking at 500 x $20 x 2.5 = $25,000 just in training.  Now you have to consider that, this training replaced the time they needed to work.  So you have this amount of work that has to be made up later.  AND..., how much slower these employees will be at first (and some for many weeks as not everyone will figure it this new crazy operating system and what was wrong with the old one?)...  And we haven't even talked about testing before rolling out the new operating system.

So simply changing a small to medium size company could well cost the company $50K to $100K in productive work and time.  (Plus we're making the assumption that the existing computers are good enough to run Windows 8 anyway...)  Plus you'll need to factor in the extra time the IT Department (help desk) will spend answering extra calls.  NOW... go explain to your company executive (owner) that you need to spend $50K to $100K that no one planned on spending just to upgrade everyone to Windows 8...  (Plus IT Dept's time in actually creating images/drives with Windows 8 on it!  Then we cannot really work to improve anything else while we get this finished...)

I agree that an individual person can learn Windows 8 with some struggles.  And your time is just your time.  However, from a company point of view, we change/refresh computers in groups (like a location/site) or even all at once if it is a program update needed by all.

This is why I think Microsoft needs to restore (or give the option for) a classic "start button" desktop (Windows 7 Explorer) option rather than just limiting the display to the metro look.  I agree that metro is much more image oriented.  But from a company/corporate point of view, making such a chance would cost a company too much to embrace and quickly roll out.  I think over time, if it is replaced in a planned manner one department at a time, it would work.  But there is still the training cost and loss of productivity that a company would have to pay extra for.  Having the newest OS can be nice, however from a company IT Dept., point of view, I would have to have an answer ready to show my executives that making such a big change would benefit them (in $) in the long run.  I can also tell you that our CIO's answer was "no, keep it on XP/Windows 7 for now" when we discussed Windows 8 this past fall... 

I don't think Microsoft has (or cares to) take these cost factors into consideration.  They only want the new product out there in order to keep making money...

Offline Vawmataw

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Re: Windows 8(Beta)
« Reply #90 on: January 19, 2013, 08:43:14 pm »
Learning how to use Windows 8 is normal and required. Maybe now we shouldn't use it at work, but after adapting and learning, it's easy to use.
You never buy an Ipad and start using it the first time like if it was the 100th time you use it.

Ma Kameya a Kepekmì, I don't think you realize the economic impact of the problem in expense to a company.  It is one thing for one user to learn something new on their own.  But say you have a company that has 500 users.  Now you need to retrain those 500 users to learn Windows 8 hoping that all the programs they've used, still are compatible.  In our case, we had some legacy (meaning old and non upgradeable) programs that were 10 years old...  Now if you pay these employees an average of $20/hour and it takes, for example, 2.5 hours to train them, you are looking at 500 x $20 x 2.5 = $25,000 just in training.  Now you have to consider that, this training replaced the time they needed to work.  So you have this amount of work that has to be made up later.  AND..., how much slower these employees will be at first (and some for many weeks as not everyone will figure it this new crazy operating system and what was wrong with the old one?)...  And we haven't even talked about testing before rolling out the new operating system.

So simply changing a small to medium size company could well cost the company $50K to $100K in productive work and time.  (Plus we're making the assumption that the existing computers are good enough to run Windows 8 anyway...)  Plus you'll need to factor in the extra time the IT Department (help desk) will spend answering extra calls.  NOW... go explain to your company executive (owner) that you need to spend $50K to $100K that no one planned on spending just to upgrade everyone to Windows 8...  (Plus IT Dept's time in actually creating images/drives with Windows 8 on it!  Then we cannot really work to improve anything else while we get this finished...)

I agree that an individual person can learn Windows 8 with some struggles.  And your time is just your time.  However, from a company point of view, we change/refresh computers in groups (like a location/site) or even all at once if it is a program update needed by all.

This is why I think Microsoft needs to restore (or give the option for) a classic "start button" desktop (Windows 7 Explorer) option rather than just limiting the display to the metro look.  I agree that metro is much more image oriented.  But from a company/corporate point of view, making such a chance would cost a company too much to embrace and quickly roll out.  I think over time, if it is replaced in a planned manner one department at a time, it would work.  But there is still the training cost and loss of productivity that a company would have to pay extra for.  Having the newest OS can be nice, however from a company IT Dept., point of view, I would have to have an answer ready to show my executives that making such a big change would benefit them (in $) in the long run.  I can also tell you that our CIO's answer was "no, keep it on XP/Windows 7 for now" when we discussed Windows 8 this past fall... 

I don't think Microsoft has (or cares to) take these cost factors into consideration.  They only want the new product out there in order to keep making money...
First, I'm 12 years old.
Second, maybe W8 is made for personal use.

Offline Clarke

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Re: Windows 8(Beta)
« Reply #91 on: January 20, 2013, 06:56:43 am »
A lot of people I've spoken to all said the same thing about enterprise and Win8...lost productivity from the learning curve and extra helpdesk expenses from users not knowing how to use it. There's bound to be software compatibility issues too...

When I worked over the summer, we were in the middle of rolling out Win7 Enterprise. Half the company still had XP, but the number was dropping everyday. We were getting calls from people needing help figuring out 7 (including "Where's the start button?" since it no longer actually says "Start" on it). Imagine how that would've went with 8...
Learning how to use Windows 8 is normal and required. Maybe now we shouldn't use it at work, but after adapting and learning, it's easy to use.

You never buy an Ipad and start using it the first time like if it was the 100th time you use it.
As much as I loathe defending Apple, I would say that, contrariwise, you do. The only things about an iPad that I don't see as entirely intuitive are what, precisely, the Home Button does and the multi-finger gestures in the newest versions of iOS.

Offline Swoka Ikran

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Re: Windows 8(Beta)
« Reply #92 on: January 20, 2013, 09:38:28 am »
Learning how to use Windows 8 is normal and required. Maybe now we shouldn't use it at work, but after adapting and learning, it's easy to use.

You never buy an Ipad and start using it the first time like if it was the 100th time you use it.
As much as I loathe defending Apple, I would say that, contrariwise, you do. The only things about an iPad that I don't see as entirely intuitive are what, precisely, the Home Button does and the multi-finger gestures in the newest versions of iOS.
Agreed. I got an iPad 3 for my birthday last year. Had never used any iOS-based product before, and it took me about 15 minutes to figure out how to use it effectively. The Home button and lock button explain themselves pretty quickly. Other than zoom, the gestures aren't exactly obvious, but many were discovered while playing around with it.

Windows 8 on my test PC, on the other hand...took me 2 hours to figure out the basics, and even then I was forced to Google a LOT of stuff (quitting a metro app, shutting down, etc.). Once I did figure the thing out, it felt really awkward to use with a mouse,sliding / dragging the mouse in an area of the screen to open menus, etc. The charms bar kept popping out when I didn't want it (working in a game map editor near the screen edge). I installed a start menu, and later junked it completely.
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Offline Eltusiyu

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Re: Windows 8(Beta)
« Reply #93 on: January 20, 2013, 03:30:41 pm »
So..
I'm using Windows 8 since Developer Preview (October 2011). It took half an hour for me to get basics (gestures) and how to work with new Modern UI/Metro Ui.
Since that time I've never returned back to Win7.

Now Windows 8 Pro. In my opinion it's the best OS Microsoft ever made. It's amazing fast and stable. I haven't any problems with drivers or programs/games on it.
I love new UI, new wide range of apps, way of getting it touch with 'em. I go to desktop only when I need to work with Office 2013 which is also "tiled".
Currently I'm learning how to develop my own Learnnavi App for W8 Modern :)

http://kxangangang.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/modern1.png
My current desktop :D

Offline Tsmuktengan

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Re: Windows 8(Beta)
« Reply #94 on: January 20, 2013, 08:44:23 pm »
Meh, everyone has its own point of view. Personally, I can't stand Modern UI (and so am using Start8 to avoid hissing to my laptop) but Windows 8 is still usable. Its always the same issue : on desktop, Modern UI is rubish. On tablet/phone, the desktop is rubish. Windows 8 is half accros both.

Analists are mostly saying the same thing : Windows 8 has been developped for personal users, not for IT or companies, which explains why you will rarely see Windows 8 in offices : companies have spent so many money to migrate their PCs to Seven, many of then still have not complete this migration, and won't want to upgrade massively since the added value for corporations is close to null between Seven and 8. The exception may be Windows Server 2013, who has interesting features.

Windows 8 isn't bad... but the migration isn't justified. If I'd have to give an advice to a newbie in computers, I would defenitely make him stick to Seven for a while.

I wish you courage to develop your "Metro" app, ma Kxrekorikus. If you manage to make one, I'll attempt to download it (if only my Windows Store would work... I can hardly download anything, updates and downloads get constantly stuck even with an excellent connection).
« Last Edit: January 20, 2013, 08:47:49 pm by Tsmuktengan »


Offline Eltusiyu

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Re: Windows 8(Beta)
« Reply #95 on: January 21, 2013, 07:47:11 am »
Indeed. Its the point of view of person and his/her demands.
I can't stand any Apple product and the way which they want conquer the market. In my opinion their technology is developed for kids who want and need toy rather than phone.
I played with every iPad/iPhone.. 4 years I've worked od Mac Os X and still don't like this OS. Android or even WP7/8 (IMO) is much better for my own purposes. I have both of them but I would never buy for myself any iProduct.

My Learnnavi App
The problem is I don't have touch-screen device. My laptop has casual screen and I won't put it into Win Store because it's stupid to develop app for mostly touchable devices without touchable device. :P Also I'm web developer not programmer, I make websites and I use new way wchich MS gave developers: I mean HTML + javascript to develop simple applications. Its fair enough good to make app which has purpouse to teach  you something :)

Sorry for my english, I'm polish :(
« Last Edit: January 21, 2013, 07:53:34 am by Kxrekorikus »

Offline Tsanten Eywa 'eveng

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Re: Windows 8(Beta)
« Reply #96 on: March 30, 2013, 09:32:51 am »
New OS on the way by Microsoft. It is called Microsoft Blue, and looks like Windows 8


Offline Taronyu Leleioae

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Re: Windows 8(Beta)
« Reply #97 on: March 30, 2013, 09:48:06 am »
Every windows sysadmin's nightmare on the enterprise level...  I'd read about this coming.  Didn't think Microsoft would actually go this route this soon...

Quote
Originally unveiled by ZDNet, the update on the Windows side, due in mid-2013, will include UI changes and alterations to the entire platform and pricing. We’re told that Microsoft is aiming to make Windows Blue the next OS that everyone installs. The approach is simple, Microsoft will price its next Windows release at a low cost or even free to ensure users upgrade. Once Windows Blue is released, the Windows SDK will be updated to support the new release and Microsoft will stop accepting apps that are built specifically for Windows 8, pushing developers to create apps for Blue. Windows 8 apps will continue to run on Blue despite the planned SDK changes.

Basically, they are playing the Droid Update game looking to push end users into the new, cloud "friendly" OS operating systems to ditch the old.  It's essentially Windows 8 redone.  But it's going to make Server Administration that much harder because you need cross compatibility.  So is Server 2012 already going to have a major service pack rolled out?  Or is, Server "Blue" coming out with Windows "Blue".?  It's going to make enterprise licensing a mess.  Not to mention, a number of US companies, particularly federal, banned Windows 8 because of security issues and ongoing security testing compliance.  Plus XP will still be end stage supported with updates until 08 APR 2014.  (Windows 7 is set for 2020.)  This is going to be hardest with the app developers and Windows OS will riddled with more bugs than ever before they are sorted out.

Offline Swoka Ikran

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Re: Windows 8(Beta)
« Reply #98 on: March 30, 2013, 10:24:23 am »
Not only are they rushing stuff faster than ever (which as said, is a nightmare for enterprise), they still haven't fixed half the complaints with the thing. Also, they apparently don't understand that it needs a PC-oriented version for systems that don't have touch.

Windows 8 is the worst selling OS of all time. Can't blame the users for that either...they complained all the way back in Beta, the product flopped, and now we just say "We told you so". MS thinks everyone uses a PC for consumption and entertainment. Far from it.
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Offline Vawmataw

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Re: Windows 8(Beta)
« Reply #99 on: March 30, 2013, 10:27:54 am »
Well, I don't have any problems with Windows 8 (Maybe not BETA). It runs a little bit better than my laptop which has Windows 7.

 

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