Arizona Wildfires are out of control!!

[ExLibrisMortis]

Yup, I'm living here in Arizona and some of our most beautiful forest areas are now being burned to the ground. Our governor has declared a state of emergency yesterday and its all going to pot. This fire is now the 3rd largest fire in Arizona history, and it's soon to be coming upon the 2nd largest. The kicker, is that it is, as of this posting, 0% contained. This comes 9 years after Arizona has had its largest fire in this state's history.

Now the reason why this fire is as big as it is, and as uncontained as it is because of the same reason why the fire in 2002 was the largest in Arizona's history. It's because the forestry service was not allowed to clear brush and undergrowth because it was blocked by litigations brought to court by environmental groups. The main player in this issue is the Institute for Bio-Diversity. They tied the forestry service for 7 years in courts deciding "what's the best route to do this".

So right now people are losing their homes. Entire towns and cities in northern Arizona have burnt, or are in danger of burning down. So I'd just like to let everyone know that please before you decide to donate money to organization, check their history. Earth First are terrorists, who would kill you because they value animal life over human. United way has been documented as giving food to organizations that are bent on killing Americans, or other western countries' citizens. The Institute for Bio-Diversity stopped years of what could have been forest thinning and clearing of underbrush to prevent one of this state's worse wildfires ever.

EDIT: It is now classified as the SECOND largest wildfire in Arizona history...

[Toruk Makto]

I was agreeing with you until you mentioned the United Way. That's a rather sweeping indictment of an organization that also does a lot of good.

The other organizations you mentioned do have a history of actions I can't bring myself to agree with.

[ExLibrisMortis]

Marki, yes, each organization above has done great good at one point in time, but when they, in the case of united way, start sending food directly to Hamas and Hezbollah, I can no longer condone.

[Tsyal Maktoyu]

I think a laissez faire approach to the natural world is just as bad as destroying the natural world. Being environmentally friendly/being more harmonious with nature requires getting your hands dirty. We are a part of nature, afterall, we have a role in things, too. Clearing underbrush/thinning is natural, there's nothing wrong with that (Native Americans did it, as well). Being a good steward to the Earth requires finding a balance, a niche, which I guess still has yet to be found.

As for United Way, pobody's nerfect, I guess, especially in this grey world of ours. Every organization has extremists or people with ulterior motives. That organization have done much good, and some bad (from the POV of an American or westerner at least, or motives of those at United Way, that's important to remember, too, hindsight is 20/20), and it's important to look at things like that objectively, not simply dismiss them completely.

Sidenote: Isn't it interesting how we can afford to give tax cuts to banksters and the top 2%, but we can't afford more firefighting services? Or at least to pay these guys better?

EDIT: I'll just make my rebuttel here, don't want to derail the thread too much. That may be so, but the individual tax rate of the highest earners is lower than in most other western countries. I see the problem with 42% not paying anything, and agree they should pay more, but so should the rich. Paying such high taxes just comes with the territory, and it was a fact of life prior to Reaganomics, and still is in Europe (and it's working out pretty well). The idea of "supply-side" economics is a failure. Turns out rich people aren't as benevolent or risk takers as people think. They don't use that money to create jobs, most just pack it in and use that money for personal gain. The US has the highest income inequality of any western country, and the highest since the Great Depression. Does that sound like a functioning economic policy?

Paul Krugman makes a good case.
http://paulkrugmanblog.com/paul-krugman-tax-cuts-for-the-wealthy-is-not-the-answer/

also interesting alternet article

http://www.alternet.org/story/151229/the_bush_tax_cuts_turn_10%3B_let%27s_look_at_the_damage_they%27ve_caused/

my $0.02. I'll leave it at that, again don't want this thing derailed.

[ExLibrisMortis]

In regards to your sidenote, the top 2% of americans pay 50% of the taxes. 42% of American don't even pay taxes.

And its the act of clearing the underbrush that has been deemed "bad" enough to tie up any actions in court for years, not allowing the forestry service, or any other group,  the ability to prevent the magnitude of wildfires as is the one currently going on here.

But I guess what I was trying to say was not... conveyed correctly. I guess my example of United Way is not conducive to my point. I should have used organizations like GreenPeace or the Shephards.

[Toruk Makto]

Marki, yes, each organization above has done great good at one point in time, but when they, in the case of united way, start sending food directly to Hamas and Hezbollah, I can no longer condone.

Hmmmm. I was under the impression that Hamas had actually reject United Way aid, but I could be mistaken. In any case if these organizations have received aid from United Way, I would be gravely disappointed and definitely be against that.

Markì

[ExLibrisMortis]

Update, the fire is now at 500 Sqaure miles. We have firefighters from all over the state going up there and pulling 16 hour shifts now.