Increasing CO2 levels are now becoming a self perpetuating closed loop

Started by Niri Te, November 06, 2013, 10:26:50 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Niri Te

Tokx alu tawtute, Tirea Le Na'vi

Raiden

Best way to close the loop is with trees. Lots of them.

Another way to do it would be to restore bog habitat. The water in bogs is acidic enough that it prevents anaerobic bacteria from digesting carbon compounds and forming methane, so organic matter can persist in bogs for thousands of years (depending on the depth of the basin that the bog is in).

Another way would be to seed phytoplankton blooms in the ocean, but that's a much riskier business.
Trouble keeps me running faster

Save the planet from disaster...

archaic

Green the deserts, at least some of them, it's only a question of money.
Or orbital sunshades.
Pasha, an Avatar story, my most recent fanfic, Avatar related, now complete.

The Dragon Affair my last fanfic, non Avatar related.

Nyx

Quote from: archaic on November 07, 2013, 01:32:45 PM
Green the deserts, at least some of them, it's only a question of money.
Or orbital sunshades.
Terraforming!

Sadly, the question of money needs to generate money, and lots of it, for anything to happen.

`Eylan Ayfalulukanä

Greening the desert would also require a lot of energy, and fertilizer. Trees and other plants, where stuff grows well.

Sunshades in space is novel, but I doubt would be well accepted.

Yawey ngahu!
pamrel si ro [email protected]

Raiden

Quote from: archaic on November 07, 2013, 01:32:45 PM
Green the deserts

NO.

Deserts are ecosystems too, and many unique organisms live in deserts and nowhere else.

















Are you telling me that you would deny all of these organisms their entire existence just so we can grow more food?

The entire CO2 problem stems from the fact that there are too many god damn humans. We're encroaching on the innate rights of other organisms to exist, because we are operating outside the limits of the planet's biosphere (in other words, the vast majority of humanity no longer counts as a part of Earth's ecology). The only way to fix the problem is to stop having babies, stop building out and start building up instead, and changing to more renewable fuels (of which hydrogen and fusion are the best, with solar and wind a step below them).

Trouble keeps me running faster

Save the planet from disaster...

Clarke

Quote from: Raiden on November 12, 2013, 01:33:24 PM
The entire CO2 problem stems from the fact that there are too many god damn humans.
The issue isn't too many humans, it's that humans are too inefficient for the energy use we demand.

`Eylan Ayfalulukanä

Thanks for the picture of the sand cat (Felis margirita)!

Ma Raiden, how can hydrogen be more efficient than solar or wind? the hydrogen has to to come from somewhere?

Building up rather than out is synonymous with UN agenda 21. I guarantee you, you don't want to live in an agenda 21 world!

Yawey ngahu!
pamrel si ro [email protected]

Raiden

Quote from: `Eylan Ayfalulukanä on November 12, 2013, 03:50:28 PMBuilding up rather than out is synonymous with UN agenda 21. I guarantee you, you don't want to live in an agenda 21 world!

You can split water into Oxygen and Hydrogen with a weak electric current. You end up with oxygen gas and hydrogen gas. You combust it in an engine and the result of hydrogen combustion is water. 

It sounds like what you meant to say was "I don't want to live in an agenda 21 world". I came up with the idea of building up instead of out on my own. It would really help restore habitat in places like Texas, China, Brazil, and California.

But if that's too much hardship for you to bear, I'll let the lions, and the tigers, and leopards and the rest of your furry friends know that you're too selfish to make any sacrifices for them.
Trouble keeps me running faster

Save the planet from disaster...

`Eylan Ayfalulukanä

That electric current needed to split water isn't that weak. The amount of power required is equal to the power you later get out when you later burn the hydrogen. Plus system losses. This is the realization of basic physical law, 'the law of conservation of energy'. Lots of gullible people get tripped up on this and invest their money in hydrogen energy scams. Fusion is not renewable, either, even though the current fuel supply is vast. Solar, wind, geothermal, etc. are the closest thing you get to truly renewable energy.

I want to protect the environment and help save our world for future generations, but I am not into doing it the way the UN is planning to dictate it, either. I guarantee you wouldn't either.

Yawey ngahu!
pamrel si ro [email protected]

Clarke

Quote from: `Eylan Ayfalulukanä on November 12, 2013, 08:37:05 PM
That electric current needed to split water isn't that weak. The amount of power required is equal to the power you later get out when you later burn the hydrogen. Plus system losses. This is the realization of basic physical law, 'the law of conservation of energy'. Lots of gullible people get tripped up on this and invest their money in hydrogen energy scams. Fusion is not renewable, either, even though the current fuel supply is vast. Solar, wind, geothermal, etc. are the closest thing you get to truly renewable energy.
Fusion's total power output is larger than solar and wind put together.

`Eylan Ayfalulukanä

Quote from: Clarke on November 12, 2013, 08:54:38 PM
Quote from: `Eylan Ayfalulukanä on November 12, 2013, 08:37:05 PM
That electric current needed to split water isn't that weak. The amount of power required is equal to the power you later get out when you later burn the hydrogen. Plus system losses. This is the realization of basic physical law, 'the law of conservation of energy'. Lots of gullible people get tripped up on this and invest their money in hydrogen energy scams. Fusion is not renewable, either, even though the current fuel supply is vast. Solar, wind, geothermal, etc. are the closest thing you get to truly renewable energy.
Fusion's total power output is larger than solar and wind put together.

But deuterium is not an inexhaustible resource, unless you can build a hydrogen-hydrogen reactor. That come close to inexhaustable. Its interesting to note that the carbon cycle reaction dominates fusion reactions over hydrogen-hydrogen in larger stars. i wonder if that can ever be made to work here.

I am currently preferring the 'stellerator' fusion reactor design, as it can run continuously, and does not require tritium. If you look at the reactors under construction though, you find they are very difficult to build. My second favorite is inertial confinement, after living close to the laboratory for Laser Energetics for many years, and having the National Ignition Facility about 4 hours away. Here in Reno, we have the 'Zebra' Z-pinch machine at the Nevada Terawatt Facility, and that is visible out my kitchen window.

Yawey ngahu!
pamrel si ro [email protected]

Niri Te

Quote from: Raiden on November 12, 2013, 01:33:24 PM
Quote from: archaic on November 07, 2013, 01:32:45 PM
Green the deserts

NO.

Deserts are ecosystems too, and many unique organisms live in deserts and nowhere else.

















Are you telling me that you would deny all of these organisms their entire existence just so we can grow more food?

The entire CO2 problem stems from the fact that there are too many god damn humans. We're encroaching on the innate rights of other organisms to exist, because we are operating outside the limits of the planet's biosphere (in other words, the vast majority of humanity no longer counts as a part of Earth's ecology). The only way to fix the problem is to stop having babies, stop building out and start building up instead, and changing to more renewable fuels (of which hydrogen and fusion are the best, with solar and wind a step below them).



Believe it or not Raiden, I agree with you. I bought 80 acres in the far west Texas Desert, BECAUSE unless one of them is getting ready to KILL my wife or dog right next to the House, I happen to LIKE the critters that live out here. Most of these creatures not only DON'T, they just CAN'T live anywhere else.
Tokx alu tawtute, Tirea Le Na'vi

archaic

Pasha, an Avatar story, my most recent fanfic, Avatar related, now complete.

The Dragon Affair my last fanfic, non Avatar related.

Raiden

Quote from: archaic on November 13, 2013, 04:12:25 PM
Quote from: Raiden on November 12, 2013, 01:33:24 PM

OK, so it's a Desert Goby. But really, I mean, it's a fish!

Yes.

It is a fish that prefers the water chemistry of the desert springs in which it lives. Modifying the surroundings of its habitat would have untold consequences on the water chemistry. There are fish native to the "Death Valley" region of Nevada that live hot springs and other very warm bodies of water. They, similar to Chlamydogobius sp., have adapted to to a very specific lifestyle, and we do not have the right to change that, no matter what.

I'm not trying to sound "holier-than-thou", but some of you guys seem to have a really poor understanding of very basic (almost common-sense level) ecological principles. If a bunch of humans go out to a pristine ecosystem and convert large parts of it to suit their needs, that conversion will come at the expense of all but the hardiest organisms living there, and it may even introduce invasive species (humans have a terrible, terrible record of controlling biological contaminants) which eventually will cause the ecosystem to collapse (ever wonder why rats, pigeons, ants, and cockroaches thrive in cities, but few other animals are able to?). And, if you were thinking "Oh, the ecosystem will just bounce back and form something else.", I've got news for you; that can take thousands or even millions of years to actually happen.   

The solution to our problems (economic, energy, environmental, etc.) is not further modification of ecosystems. That's what got us where we are to begin with. We need to stop expanding and "re-wild" as much land as possible (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rewilding_%28conservation_biology%29), we need to build up instead of build out, and we need to explore options for setting up colonies in space that follow the same principles (and maybe just avoid colonizing worlds with life altogether). 
Trouble keeps me running faster

Save the planet from disaster...

Toruk Makto

Quote from: Raiden on November 12, 2013, 05:44:43 PM
Quote from: `Eylan Ayfalulukanä on November 12, 2013, 03:50:28 PMBuilding up rather than out is synonymous with UN agenda 21. I guarantee you, you don't want to live in an agenda 21 world!

You can split water into Oxygen and Hydrogen with a weak electric current. You end up with oxygen gas and hydrogen gas. You combust it in an engine and the result of hydrogen combustion is water.  

It sounds like what you meant to say was "I don't want to live in an agenda 21 world". I came up with the idea of building up instead of out on my own. It would really help restore habitat in places like Texas, China, Brazil, and California.

But if that's too much hardship for you to bear, I'll let the lions, and the tigers, and leopards and the rest of your furry friends know that you're too selfish to make any sacrifices for them.


Easy there, ma tsmukan. Let's not get unpleasant.

Electrolysis with recombinant combustion is not very efficient, or we would have it all over the place right now. The advantage of hydrogen power is not it's efficiency or low environmental impact, it is the density of stored energy that it makes available.

Lì'fyari leNa'vi 'Rrtamì, vay set 'almong a fra'u zera'u ta ngrrpongu
Na'vi Dictionary: http://files.learnnavi.org/dicts/NaviDictionary.pdf

`Eylan Ayfalulukanä

Quote from: Toruk Makto on November 15, 2013, 01:40:49 PM
Electrolysis with recombinant combustion is not very efficient, or we would have it all over the place right now. The advantage of hydrogen power is not it's efficiency or low environmental impact, it is the density of stored energy that it makes available.

The other beautiful thing about hydrogen as a fuel is the waste product is water :)

Yawey ngahu!
pamrel si ro [email protected]

Tìtstewan

The problem with hydrogen is, you need a lots of enegy to split water and also some chemicals which is needed as catalyst like sulfuric acid.

-| Na'vi Vocab + Audio | Na'viteri as one HTML file | FAQ | Useful Links for Beginners |-
-| Kem si fu kem rä'ä si, ke lu tìfmi. |-

archaic

Pasha, an Avatar story, my most recent fanfic, Avatar related, now complete.

The Dragon Affair my last fanfic, non Avatar related.

Toruk Makto


Lì'fyari leNa'vi 'Rrtamì, vay set 'almong a fra'u zera'u ta ngrrpongu
Na'vi Dictionary: http://files.learnnavi.org/dicts/NaviDictionary.pdf