All things bad

[Herwìna]

This thought was awaken in me due to an amazing song which I would love to translate into na'vi... Problem being, Na'vi doesn't have several of the words mentioned in the lyrics. Mainly the song is telling how crappy the world is currently, how people crave for sex and violence and nothing means anything kind of thing. So I came to think, are Na'vi so perfect that there is, for example, not one Na'vi who would not be interested in mating for life, but just having fun. Is there not one Na'vi who would like to pick up fights just for the fun of it?
Is rape totally impossible? Tsahaylu-rape probably is but then again...
Then again I thought, that if Na'vi only have sex for reproduction, what if there is no actual pleasure to it. If their erogenic areas are different or something.

Weird discussion about the perfectness of Na'vi please!

[Syaron]

Humankind's ability to inflict pain and suffering through what should be an act of joy is well documented. Rape as a weapon of war is all too real to many many people all over this earth. And often includes the very young and the very old as victim, even defenseless animals too. I would imagine, given that conquests of less developed or able people ALWAYS involves the rape and carrying off of women and children for use as sex and other slaves, there is no reason to think that humans would do any less to women of another planet. On Pandora, this may cost them their lives given humans are required to wear rebreathers and the women are ten feet tall. But there is no law to stop bad things on Pandora; the humans do as they please. See what they did to Hometree. They consider the Na'vi as animals, just like the Europeans did to my Native American ancestors. (That old pirate standby.."you go find water, I'll look for women" applies the most.)

Not having a history of how the Na'vi treat conquests or even if they wage war for hunting rights, etc. we have no idea if such an act would occur to them. It DOES happen in primative cultures even now exiting on earth but then we humans are all the same deep down...some to a lesser degree. We all have the capacity for horror as well as for good.

And I imagine one day we really will spread across the universe. There is no indication we will change given our history. Sadly.

Syaron

[Amaya]

So I came to think, are Na'vi so perfect that there is, for example, not one Na'vi who would not be interested in mating for life, but just having fun. Is there not one Na'vi who would like to pick up fights just for the fun of it?
Is rape totally impossible? Tsahaylu-rape probably is but then again...
Then again I thought, that if Na'vi only have sex for reproduction, what if there is no actual pleasure to it. If their erogenic areas are different or something.

To answer your questions with my opinions:

1. I do not believe that Na'vi are "perfect" in the way that they do not do things for selfish reasons.  Look at the way Tsu'tey behaves when he feels slighted, but even before that, look at the way he "picks on" Jake suring the iknimaya.  As far as sex before tìmuntxa, that is, I think, less likely, due to the pivotal role that tsaheylu plays in their sexual interaction.

2. Rape is...unlikely, and I believe would be something quite far from the norm among the Na'vi, due to the exclusivity they seem to place on the bonds of mating.  I agree with you, though, that tsaheylu-rape is probably impossible.

3. This last point is highly unlikely.  Pleasure during mating is one of the main reasons mating occurs, and if the only pleasure was due to the bond of tsaheylu, then what impetus would there be for a couple to bother putting their naughty bits together?  Sex and "making out" or gentle, affectionate physical touch are important parts of pairbonding among humans, and it would seem to be similar among the Na'vi from what we see when Jake and Neytiri get together. 

As far as "sex for reprodcution only", that is a (silly in my opinion) very "sin-linked" or "shame-linked" way of thinking, and given that birthrates among the Na'vi are very low (couples have only one to three children) it wouldn't seem likely.  If sex happened only for the purpose of reproduction, then a couple would only end up having actual sex perhaps a dozen times in their life, and that's just...  It doesn't make sense to me on an anthropological or psychological basis, sorry. 

As far as their naughty bits (I say that instead of eroginous zones because there are many and diverse parts of the body which react particularly strongly to stimulation) it's been stated before, and someone can I'm sure find the relevant interview, that JC himself said the external hardware is very much the same as humans' genitalia.

Hope that gave you a little food for thought, and remember, everything but that last bit is entirely my own (semi-informed) opinion, ymmv.

[Teylar Ta Palulukankelku]

Great thread  ! I've pondered this from time to time.

3. This last point is highly unlikely.  Pleasure during mating is one of the main reasons mating occurs, and if the only pleasure was due to the bond of tsaheylu, then what impetus would there be for a couple to bother putting their naughty bits together?  Sex and "making out" or gentle, affectionate physical touch are important parts of pairbonding among humans, and it would seem to be similar among the Na'vi from what we see when Jake and Neytiri get together.

Agreed on that one, ma Amaya  . I've read in the thread ``Na'vi couples... hetro, homo etc/.´´ that tsmukan Säfpìltu said:

The way I see it, na'vi couples might not even practice intercourse or any sexual acts at all when it's not for reproduction. The real pleasure and intimacy seems to be in tsaheylu, and the tswin (queue) appears to be 100% equal between the genders. So sex might just be for reproduction, while tsaheylu is for intimacy...

I'd have to agree with you and diagree with him on this one. Although the Na'vi can have sexual pleasure without intercourse, due to Tsaheylu, doesn't mean all other forms of sexual interaction gives no pleasure, because then there wouldn't be any need for caressing and kissing during sexual acts (BTW, i count Tsahelyu with one's beloved as a sexual act.)  .

As far as their naughty bits (I say that instead of eroginous zones because there are many and diverse parts of the body which react particularly strongly to stimulation) it's been stated before, and someone can I'm sure find the relevant interview, that JC himself said the external hardware is very much the same as humans' genitalia.

That's what i think, too: Since the Na'vi have a body structure very similar to ours (Two arms, two hands, two feet, two legs, hips, a waistline, a chest, two eyes, two ears, one pair of lips etc.), then it would make sense that their eroginous zones would be similar to ours: Our body parts that are most sensitive to stimulation is the genitalia, the tongue, the lips, the area around the collarbone, the chest and breasts, the neck, the inner thighs and the stomach (particularly the belly button).

In the scene at Utral Aymokriyä, when Jake and Neytiri were mating, i think i at one point noticed that while they where sitting close to each other on the ground fondling and kissing, Neytiri had one hand placed on Jake's neck and she kissed him on the cheek, and indicator that the neck and cheek are erogienous zones to the Na'vi as well (even though i'm sure different persons have different tastes in term of what gives them pleasure, just like humans). Also, at one point, Jake picked up Neytiri and held her in his arms while she placed her hands on his cheeks and stroke his forehead with her lips (maybe not the most sensitive area on humans, but i think the forehead is quite sensitive to stimulation to humans and ,therefore, probably to Na'vi as well. The lips is not only sensitive to kissing the other person's lips , but also to stroking of the other person's body parts, such as the forehead.) Embracing is obviously also stimulating to the Na'vi: Note that while Jake and Neytiri were sitting close to eachother on the ground kissing, they had their arms wrapped around each other's upper bodies (neck, back, chest and stomach).

However, there is one eroginous zone i think the Na'vi have that us humans don't: The queue. Since it's used to engage in Tsaheylu, a very erotic physical and mental coupling when done between two Na'vi, would it perhaps be possible to give the other person pleasure by stroking and fondling his/her queue? Just a thought  . What do you think?  

[archaic]

Don't play with that, you'll go blind.

Which I rather feel was Grace saying that it's not considered acceptable etiquette to play with it, at least in public. In private, sure, why not?

[Toruk Makto]

I had figured early on that what Grace said indicated that the tswin was a part of intimate conduct, but your idea is a twist I hadn't thought of. Very interesting...

[Teylar Ta Palulukankelku]

I had figured early on that what Grace said indicated that the tswin was a part of intimate conduct, but your idea is a twist I hadn't thought of. Very interesting...

Well, TBH, i didn't come up with the hypothesis myself. I read it somewhere on this forum (Can't remember where and who said it  .) that someone said it might be an indicator that the tswin was a very... sensitive  ... body part, which leads to the following question: If a Na'vi ever felt like ``doing it solo´´, would they pleasure themselves by means of their tswin instead of their genitalia?

[P.A.'li makto]

If a Na'vi ever felt like ``doing it solo´´, would they pleasure themselves by means of their tswin instead of their genitalia?

Fo tsaheyl si ayfa'liru sì ayikranur nìteng! Tì'efumì oeyä fko ke sì "tsat" fa peyä tswin!
They bond with direhorses and banshees, too! I don't think one does 'it' with his/her queue!

(Hey! It rhymes!)

[Human No More]

I always took Grace's remark as an offhand joke. It is unlikely there is much physical feel through the tswin - the nervous system is too specialised for that, and it would be only the nerve fibres used to link to another.

[Teylar Ta Palulukankelku]

I always took Grace's remark as an offhand joke. It is unlikely there is much physical feel through the tswin - the nervous system is too specialised for that, and it would be only the nerve fibres used to link to another.

Perhaps  . Still, it's a funny thought  .