Bloody pirates

[Seze Mune]

I agree that what you say is part of the message of Avatar.  In my opinion, there are multiple themes though.  Others I see are self sacrifice (Tsu'tey, Neytiri, Trudy, Jake and others are featured in this), anti-military, anti-megacorporations, environmentalism, anti-racism, love, forgiveness, redemption...and more).

I don't mean to condone piracy.  It's wrong without a doubt.  However that doesn't mean that some good can't come out of it.  Consider any evil action, and follow the dominoes it tips.....very often it sparks some good in the world.  Casey Anthony's heinous actions led to certain laws intended to prevent a reoccurrence of such an event for example.

Again, piracy is wrong and I wish it could be prevented.  Even if I knew how to d/l something illegally, I wouldn't do it.  But it's also good to keep in mind that not all the effects of an evil or improper action are equally heinous.

So everything eventually boils down to one thing that is inherent in all those things and messages: Not to be selfish.
When we have a close look, the main source for misery is people being selfish - or at the more extreme self-centered. However, when any two selfish people meet for whatever reason, trouble is in the offing.
Furthermore, if you take into account those things that also cause a lot of problems and misery - I'm talking about miserliness, jealousy, and greed, which, although distinct traits, fit together extremely well - you will eventually end up with selfishness again.

That's the gist here - pirates are rarely (if ever) of the selfless kind, but are at least ignorant of what they are doing to others or outright selfish. That's where the big bang eventually comes from - and here's the collision point with many of the messages Avatar wants to deliver.
Unfortunately, since those ayskxawng don't seem to notice what they are doing (EDIT: I'm talking about both the pirates and the fellows who download illegaly), one would have to become outright Anvilicious in order to make them notice.

And exactly that's the point that gets me riled!

Anvilicious.  What a concept!

I have a slightly different take on it, but getting into it starts us into the psychophilosophical realm and that's a tangent to the thread. Let me just say that it's one's concept of the self that is the meat of the subject, because one cannot be unselfish.  In my opinion, true altruism doesn't exist because EVERYthing you do will at its heart have some perceived benefit for you, even if it's just that you feel better about yourself for having done it.  So you cannot be unselfish, really.  The problem comes in when your definition of selfhood is way too small.  I think one of Avatar's main themes is that one's selfhood is not really separate (at its roots) from the selfhood of any living thing.  We are all connected.  One needs to perceive that any action one takes has a butterfly effect on everything else in the world, and that it is therefore incumbent on us to be aware of our individual affect on this larger self.   But I'll leave it at that.  This could be a whole other thread, for some other time...

[Txur’Itan]

Spoiler

I agree that what you say is part of the message of Avatar.  In my opinion, there are multiple themes though.  Others I see are self sacrifice (Tsu'tey, Neytiri, Trudy, Jake and others are featured in this), anti-military, anti-megacorporations, environmentalism, anti-racism, love, forgiveness, redemption...and more).

I don't mean to condone piracy.  It's wrong without a doubt.  However that doesn't mean that some good can't come out of it.  Consider any evil action, and follow the dominoes it tips.....very often it sparks some good in the world.  Casey Anthony's heinous actions led to certain laws intended to prevent a reoccurrence of such an event for example.

Again, piracy is wrong and I wish it could be prevented.  Even if I knew how to d/l something illegally, I wouldn't do it.  But it's also good to keep in mind that not all the effects of an evil or improper action are equally heinous.

So everything eventually boils down to one thing that is inherent in all those things and messages: Not to be selfish.
When we have a close look, the main source for misery is people being selfish - or at the more extreme self-centered. However, when any two selfish people meet for whatever reason, trouble is in the offing.
Furthermore, if you take into account those things that also cause a lot of problems and misery - I'm talking about miserliness, jealousy, and greed, which, although distinct traits, fit together extremely well - you will eventually end up with selfishness again.

That's the gist here - pirates are rarely (if ever) of the selfless kind, but are at least ignorant of what they are doing to others or outright selfish. That's where the big bang eventually comes from - and here's the collision point with many of the messages Avatar wants to deliver.
Unfortunately, since those ayskxawng don't seem to notice what they are doing (EDIT: I'm talking about both the pirates and the fellows who download illegaly), one would have to become outright Anvilicious in order to make them notice.

And exactly that's the point that gets me riled!

Anvilicious.  What a concept!

I have a slightly different take on it, but getting into it starts us into the psychophilosophical realm and that's a tangent to the thread. Let me just say that it's one's concept of the self that is the meat of the subject, because one cannot be unselfish.  In my opinion, true altruism doesn't exist because EVERYthing you do will at its heart have some perceived benefit for you, even if it's just that you feel better about yourself for having done it.  So you cannot be unselfish, really.  The problem comes in when your definition of selfhood is way too small.  I think one of Avatar's main themes is that one's selfhood is not really separate (at its roots) from the selfhood of any living thing.  We are all connected.  One needs to perceive that any action one takes has a butterfly effect on everything else in the world, and that it is therefore incumbent on us to be aware of our individual affect on this larger self.   But I'll leave it at that.  This could be a whole other thread, for some other time...

OFF-TOPIC: Truly altruistic acts are left unknown or unremembered, as a true altruist does not waist time advertising their activities. But, I will say that they exist, even if we never know who they are, or that they are helping. In my under educated opinion, the feeling of gratification from helping others, when it is thought of as a valuation in a selfish context, is a rote perception induced by a misunderstanding of empathy and related emotions. I am not purely altruistic, when I have helped, I have admitted to doing it, but not always.

ON-TOPIC: I dislike piracy for the reason that the thousands of person's who work to create, music, games, TV shows, and movies, are trying to earn an income from what they create. However, piracy has helped the careers of musicians in the past, where bootlegs grew the popularity of musicians during the 20th century, in a try before you buy scenario. Unfortunately, the mentality of the new generation of content pirate has changed in the last decade, in that they either they try to pocket the profit of selling the illegal copy or they just have no intention of ever paying for the content.

You must admit though, if Avatar wasn't number one, you all wouldn't be angry.

Actually yes I would, and am. Pirating is pirating, regardless of the material being stolen.

I disapprove of piracy for music, movies, video games, holographic video plays, and whatever other creative entertainment mediums appear in the future.

Actually, regardless of the content, the fact that piracy occurs the way it does now, with a sense of entitlement to free content, is idiotic not frustrating nor angering. If people want this entertainment, they should pay for it, or face the ultimate reality that it may one day cease to exist.

Isn't the message anti-mega-corps? With fox being one of the largest entertainment industry giants... wouldn't the piracy follow suit?
[/devil's advocate]

Not viewing the content at all would follow suit. 

[Ningey]

[...]

Anvilicious.  What a concept!

I have a slightly different take on it, but getting into it starts us into the psychophilosophical realm and that's a tangent to the thread. Let me just say that it's one's concept of the self that is the meat of the subject, because one cannot be unselfish.  In my opinion, true altruism doesn't exist because EVERYthing you do will at its heart have some perceived benefit for you, even if it's just that you feel better about yourself for having done it.  So you cannot be unselfish, really.  The problem comes in when your definition of selfhood is way too small.  I think one of Avatar's main themes is that one's selfhood is not really separate (at its roots) from the selfhood of any living thing.  We are all connected.  One needs to perceive that any action one takes has a butterfly effect on everything else in the world, and that it is therefore incumbent on us to be aware of our individual affect on this larger self.   But I'll leave it at that.  This could be a whole other thread, for some other time...

To avoid confusion: Selfhood (or self-awareness?) is not necessarily congruent with selfishness (although the two can join forces, although often enough they don't).
To call someone selfish one should scrutinize the motives behind a certain deed: What side effects (if any) does it have?
Doing something to improve oneself doesn't necessarily make one selfish. You may be improving your situation, but leave anyone else unharmed, so there's nothing negative with it.
Better off would be someone who thinks about the greater good (thus improving the overall situation). If the situation improves for him, too, so much the better. In case it doesn't... Occasionally (though rarely) someone wouldn't care about that, either.
However, things do start to become problematic once they are done at the expense of others (if you didn't consider well enough, you would merely be careless, but done out of ignorance or for outright malicious reasons you're inviting trouble).
You may call me a skxawng, but piracy really isn't an act of benevolence but rather the exact opposite - and since it is done at the expense of others, this is selfishness in its pure form.

Or how about this one: "The strong prey on the weak."
Just consider the bar scene in the second extended cut of the movie (the one that starts on 'Rrta) in which Jake Sully is quoted thus. That would be yet another example for a malicious act (that guy in the bar bullying the blonde girl for whatever reason there may be), but when Jake intervenes, not the bad guy is tossed out of the bar, but Jake is instead. Sadly, that's just another mirror image of life as it happens in reality. And so is the thing with piracy: Consider the RDA taking Pandora's riches (and that just doesn't mean the unobtainium but also anything else on that moon). Have they asked the Na'vi - or better yet Eywa - for permission?  I guess not. And how about the songs from the Na'vi or any stories they have related? Although nothing of this is seen in the movie, wouldn't it still be a possibility that someone made money of those on 'Rrta?
That would be correlated (since this goes down the exact same alley) to music, movie, or whatever piracy you would come up with - and just because the Na'vi don't know what could be going on over four light years away from their home world, this doesn't make the deed any better...

[ExLibrisMortis]

"The strong prey on the weak"

Thinking sociologically, isn't by positions of strength that anything gets done? I mean you look to the "Survival of the Fittest" mentality. It's quite obvious, both in the animal world and human world, that those who manage to get themselves in the positions of strength, at least stronger than their fellow being, do tend to survive, no?

Of course, the definition of who is the strongest is ever changing. Think about currently, the "1%" as many people like to call them are in a position of strength, but the protester, whom claim to be the down trodden, would need to rise up to a position of strength greater than or equal to that of the "1%" to bring them down, or at least get their way. So in essence, doesn't that show how it really boils down to being what your cause for doing things is? And the purity of that cause, that definition of purity being purely in the eyes of the beholder.

Think about the movie, humanity is literally at a breaking point. Resources on  the planet are all but used up, and despite having moved to other planets in the solar system, they are still hurting extremely bad for survival. This new material that's been located can and is acting as the savior of the Human race. It takes what little resources they have, and increases their efficiency exponentially. The humans of this time see this thing as a must have, a something that will fix their issues and cause them to continue to be. Yes, one can look a the corporate greed undertones that are evident in the movie, but really this is their "cause", and they believe in the purity of it. So to achieve this goal, they place themselves in the great positions of strength to bring it about.

So the question is presented. Nevertheless, Purity of cause will always remain in the eyes of the beholder. And the victors, more often than not, write the history books, and the opinions therein.

[Ningey]

Spoiler

"The strong prey on the weak"

Thinking sociologically, isn't by positions of strength that anything gets done? I mean you look to the "Survival of the Fittest" mentality. It's quite obvious, both in the animal world and human world, that those who manage to get themselves in the positions of strength, at least stronger than their fellow being, do tend to survive, no?

Of course, the definition of who is the strongest is ever changing. Think about currently, the "1%" as many people like to call them are in a position of strength, but the protester, whom claim to be the down trodden, would need to rise up to a position of strength greater than or equal to that of the "1%" to bring them down, or at least get their way. So in essence, doesn't that show how it really boils down to being what your cause for doing things is? And the purity of that cause, that definition of purity being purely in the eyes of the beholder.

Think about the movie, humanity is literally at a breaking point. Resources on  the planet are all but used up, and despite having moved to other planets in the solar system, they are still hurting extremely bad for survival. This new material that's been located can and is acting as the savior of the Human race. It takes what little resources they have, and increases their efficiency exponentially. The humans of this time see this thing as a must have, a something that will fix their issues and cause them to continue to be. Yes, one can look a the corporate greed undertones that are evident in the movie, but really this is their "cause", and they believe in the purity of it. So to achieve this goal, they place themselves in the great positions of strength to bring it about.

So the question is presented. Nevertheless, Purity of cause will always remain in the eyes of the beholder. And the victors, more often than not, write the history books, and the opinions therein.

This avenue of discussion split off to http://forum.learnnavi.org/general-avatar-discussion/good-or-bad-(split-off-from-bloody-pirates)/...

[Seze Mune]

Post moved to Ningey's "Good or Bad?" thread, link above ↑

[Human No More]

Any film will be downloaded. It can't be stopped.

Remember that MANY people who downloaded it also bought multiple copies on DVD and bluray, and only used such as a stopgap measure between losing it in cinemas and the bluray release.

It has been demonstrated every single time that the overwhelming majority of people who download something without any intention to pay for it later will NOT buy it if they couldn't download, they would just do without.

In the end, it still means more Avatar fans.