Breathy holes on Toruk

[Seze Mune]

HRH!  Someone has an overactive imagination!   

[`Eylan Ayfalulukanä]

I love the cartoons, but back on topic....

The creatures that have breathing holes have more than one, and others on the other side. If an object becomes lodged on one hole, they inhale through the other holes and blow the object out. It looks like holes can be opened and closed as well, and probably individually, as needed. Internally, there is probably some sort of coarse 'filter screen' to trap smaller objects. Still, the breathing holes are likely an adaptation to allow the creatures to respire with less effort, or in the case of flying creatures, with higher volume.

Whatever is under the breathing holes is a vital structure. You see Na'vi hunters thrusting their spears backwards into the breathing holes of salioang. From what they showed in the film, if you can get a spear into this vulnerable spot, death very quickly ensues. This kind of hunting is something that Na'vi hunters undoubtedly train and train for, as a talioang can provide a lot of meat.

The retractible teeth thing is interesting, and I am going to have to watch the movie now.... The biggest possible use of retractible teeth is that it is part of a mechanism that allows teeth to easily be replaced. Crunching carbon fiber reinforced bone is probably very hard on the teeth. Whatever the reason, it must be very important to be in a flying creature where every ounce of extra weight is a liability.

As far as limbs go, ikran's wing-limbs are probably stronger than they look. Besides using them for limited mobility on the ground, they are also used to hold prey while eating. Ikran probably have to eat their prey where they catch it, or can only hunt smaller creatures (or carry parts of heavier creatures). They have to be able to carry some prey items (or parts thereof) to feed their young.

As far as hunting goes, ikran either have to ram their prey midair, or on the ground. We know that there are smaller ikran-like creatures that are probably an important food source for them. In any case, in order to hunt this way, they have to be well-constructed down their body, through at least the flight muscle area. This structure has to absorb the impact of hitting something. The helicopters were probably very easy to knock from the sky because they cannot respond as quickly, or in as many ways, as a living flying creature. The tail may also be used in hunting, especially to knock down/knock off a cliff, etc yerik and other similar animals.

Toruk and ikran have similar teeth. They are more suited to hunting creatures with less armor, like other flying things, yerik, etc. Although not as specialized as terrestrial mammals or palulukan, ikran probably have no trouble quickly consuming their prey. They are probably primarily soft tissue eaters, and will only eat smaller bones. Palulukan, on the other hand, has the big front teeth, and hunts larger, more heavily armored prey. Although the armor of their prey is hard to penetrate, it has to have numerous joints to allow movement. Palulukan uses those front teeth to get in through a joint, and simply rip off pieces of armor. This could be part of killing, as well as feeding. Palulukan also has some carnassal-like teeth for slicing through heavier tissue, and crunching bone.

Toruk, I think, is big enough to carry fairly good-sized prey items, like ikran. The legs are somehow involved. I have always speculated that toruk  may also be capable of eating in flight.

[archaic]

Palulukan appears to have mostly fixed teeth, but the upper front four are partially movable.

Ikran have a single fixed tooth at the front, upper and lower jaw, these are much larger and more robust than the folding teeth behind.

Toruk have a single fixed tooth on the front upper and two on the lower jaw. As with Ikran these are much larger and more robust than the folding teeth behind.

Nantang Fixed teeth only. We have no need for such tricks.

Folding teeth would make it more difficult for prey to wriggle out of the predictors jaws as they would act as rear facing barbs. May also aid swallowing.
The substantial nature of the fixed frontal teeth of both Ikran and Toruk, suggests to me that they could be for puncturing thick chitinous armor plate.

[`Eylan Ayfalulukanä]

Archaic, I had forgotten that ikran and toruk have the big front teeth, too. They are used, as we both speculate, for piercing or tearing off armor plates (I sort of doubt these are eaten). I would believe that these teeth are more for removing armor than for piercing because even bullets have trouble piercing the armor of some Pandoran creatures. Your theory on the movable teeth being better at holding struggling prey is interesting. (One way predators kill smaller prey is to bite about it's its body, and thrash about. This drives the teeth in deeper, and causes a lot more damage. The damage kills the prey or at least makes it stop struggling.) I can see in my mind both how that could work and how that couldn't work. It might also be a safety mechanism where the teeth are rigid enough to tear or shear flesh, but would retract automatically if they were being pushed too hard against a bone, armor plate, etc.

[Sezetirea216]

Wow that's a lot of smarticles u got there lion picture dude! (sorry I didn't want to risk butchering your cool name  ) to settle the question about the Ikran hunting thing, it would have been soooooooo cool if James Cameron had inserted a scene at the beginning of the learning montage showing a wild Ikran hunt the way they show Rhodes wild dog hunts on Animal Planet! How badass would that be! Omg today in school I exclaimed OME at this stupid kid in my class and everyone asked what it meant and I just gave them the "talk to the hand" gesture and said of they didn't get it they wouldn't Inderstand.

[Seze Mune]

Apparently Great White Sharks have retractable teeth, and it wouldn't be surprising that ikran biology could be based on it.  The following explanation sounds a lot like archaic's and 'Eylan Falulukanä's"

Teeth and Jaws

    Like all sharks, the great white has jaws that are unique from other animals because both the top and bottom jaws move. A great white shark will ambush its prey, attack by biting with the lower jaw and then its upper jaw. It shakes its head back and forth tearing off a large piece of meat and swallowing it hole.

Plenty of Teeth to Spare

    A great white shark, like all sharks, may have up to 3,000 teeth at one time with five rows of teeth at any given time. The front set of teeth is the largest and does most of the biting. Like all sharks, the great white shark may grow and use more than 20,000 teeth in its lifetime. In common with all sharks, the great white will never run out of teeth because if one is lost, another spins forward from a coil-like tooth reservoir of backup teeth in the jaw and spins forward to replace the old one.

Jaws Like a Cat's Claw

    The great white shark has rows of teeth behind the main ones. The teeth are unattached to the jaw and are retractable, like a cat's claw, moving into place when the jaw is opened. The great white sharks teeth rotate on their own axis, moving outward when the jaw is opened and inward when the jaw is closed. The great white shark's teeth are linked to pressure and senor-sensing nerve cells, which give their teeth high tactile sensitivity.


Read more: Great White Shark Teeth Facts | eHow.com http://www.ehow.com/about_6072071_great-white-shark-teeth.html#ixzz1eU4cAXRa

[`Eylan Ayfalulukanä]

Sezetirea216, thank you for the compliment. I am a real life lionkeeper (on the weekends, broadcast engineer during the week), and have been studying predator biology since I was a child. The biomechanics of hunting, killing and consuming prey are fascinating to me, and there are many days when I wish I was a cat 

Seze Mune, the info on the great white shark is fascinating, and is something I had never heard of before. However, I bet these mechanisms exist to one extent or another, in all sharks.

Another interesting animal to study is snakes. They have some incredible adaptations for swallowing and digesting prey whole.

[Reykoveyzä te Werufalä Haflak'ite]

[quote author=`Eylan Ayfalulukanä link=topic=20428.msg512930#msg512930 date=
I am a real life lionkeeper (on the weekends, broadcast engineer during the week), and have been studying predator biology since I was a child. The biomechanics of hunting, killing and consuming prey are fascinating to me, and there are many days when I wish I was
[/quote]

Wou, how did you getnito lionkeeping? It's been my dream since I was 2 and first watched lion king  hrh

[Sezetirea216]

I have always wanted to be a falconer, to be in such close contact to those beautiful rulers of the sky would be super fantabulous. I always thought the falcon was kinda a representation of neytiri, beautiful, yet deady and graceful all at once

[Reykoveyzä te Werufalä Haflak'ite]

I know! Predators are the height of epic  though I have to say they kick herbivores txim

[Kamean]

I know! Predators are the height of epic  though I have to say they kick herbivores txim

Nìngay

[`Eylan Ayfalulukanä]

I know! Predators are the height of epic  though I have to say they kick herbivores txim

Actually predators eat herbivore tîm (which is my real first name  ), and some of the best eating on mammalian herbivores is the txîm  (remember that the next time you have any kind of sirloin or round steak!)

If you want to be a cat keeper (I work primarily with the big cats, but also with small nondomestic cats as needed), the best thing you can do is volunteer at a place that holds big cats. Preferably a small zoo, a sanctuary or an educational facility. (You need a degree to be a zookeeper in most big zoos ) Many have different rules and programs, but the best ones are the places that encourage you to form a relationship with your charges. It is perhaps the single most rewarding thing I have ever done, and I wish that everyone can experience what I have experienced... it would change the world! That said, between the animal rights folks, scardey-cat government (no puns intended) and big zoos who don't want to work with anyone else, our population of captive big cats in this country are being systematically wiped out while they are going extinct in the wild.

Falconry is exceptionally rewarding, but it is also very hard work. If you are a young person (and I think you are), now is the time to get started, as the apprenticeship is looooong. I do end up being around falconers quite a bit now, and wish I had gotten involved when I was young.

[Reykoveyzä te Werufalä Haflak'ite]

Hey, your country is a whole lot bigger than mine, so proably has a whole lot more big cats  sadly, my nearest big cat thing would be a safari park which is about 2 hours drive away, and there is no way they'd let a 15 year old volunteer there.
As for the falconry thing, I went a couple of years ago to ring some baby red kites, and holding them was the best experience ever. Sadly the contact that let me do that isn't around anymore, but I might actually look into doing some  see what possibilities there are round here

[Sezetirea216]

It's funny, OME and txim are really the only nina'vi-ish stuff I put in normal conversations :$ don't know why... And u r right, I'm thirteen r my posts really that immature that they r detectable across the interwebs? (that was a joke, I would never say interwebs in real life)

[`Eylan Ayfalulukanä]

It's funny, OME and txim are really the only nina'vi-ish stuff I put in normal conversations :$ don't know why... And u r right, I'm thirteen r my posts really that immature that they r detectable across the interwebs? (that was a joke, I would never say interwebs in real life)

Last March Paul Frommer pretty much personally apologized to me about tîm. He explained to us at the 'Linguists in Hollywood' event in Boise, ID that txìm came about because there was a sudden need on the set for a word for 'rear end'. The term was coined, briefly discussed with the actors, and the word became canon. The scene was shot but never used. But txìm and its short plural form tìm lived on, and it was only later that Paul realized that there are people named 'Tim' out there....

Sezetirea, you use of strongly reactionary language does indeed give away your youth (I am 50). 

[Sezetirea216]

Okay this is super embaressing, but I don't know what u mean by reactionary language  and I'm so sorry for people named Tim. Once Na'vi takes over as the main language on earth they r gonna hear that joke a ton

[`Eylan Ayfalulukanä]

Okay this is super embaressing, but I don't know what u mean by reactionary language   and I'm so sorry for people named Tim. Once Na'vi takes over as the main language on earth they r gonna hear that joke a ton

You used an example of reactionary language in your previous post: 'super embarrasing'. Even more notable is some from a previous post:

Wow that's a lot of smarticles u got there lion picture dude! (sorry I didn't want to risk butchering your cool name  Grin) to settle the question about the Ikran hunting thing, it would have been soooooooo cool if James Cameron had inserted a scene at the beginning of the learning montage showing a wild Ikran hunt the way they show Rhodes wild dog hunts on Animal Planet! How badass would that be! Omg today in school I exclaimed OME at this stupid kid in my class and everyone asked what it meant and I just gave them the "talk to the hand" gesture and said of they didn't get it they wouldn't Inderstand.

The items highlighted in red show other examples of reactionary language. There is nothing really wrong with this, but it shows a kind of 'bubbling exhuberance' that the realities of adult life tends to suppress. I bet if I were able to go back and look at my younger life, I would find I did the same thing (but undoubtedly using different figures of speech) when I was your age. I still occasionally use this kind of language too, but reserve it for situations where the extra emphasis is really needed.

In any case, we should go back to talking about spiracles and the respiratory efficiency of Pandoran animals.  

[archaic]

Ma Sezetirea216, you can look forward to an adult life full of getting old, boring and increasingly crotchety (like me). You have one shot at being young. Enjoy it while it lasts, because before you know it you're looking at retirement, and the shady pines home for crusty old has-beens (did I say "like me" already?). Just don't do anything stupid, well, not too stupid.

Oh, and those "realities of adult life" they tend to come looking for you, mostly when you aren't expecting or ready for them. It's not all bad, but it adult life does have lumps in it.

And `Eylan is correct we really should go back to talking about spiracles and the respiratory issues of Pandoran fauna.



Nurse, wheel me into the day room please .....

[Sezetirea216]

Lol I like how u call it "bubbling exhuberance"  and believe me I am making the most of my young adult by running around and being goofy as any young blue skin should but yes we should get back on topic, despite how much u guys r making me rofl right now! Archaic and 'Eylan y'all should be comedians ur so funny! "nurse wheel mme into the day room" priceless  anyways BLAH BLAH ON TOPIC how do the animals on Pandora bathe if they can't get past their chests in water?

[`Eylan Ayfalulukanä]

Lol I like how u call it "bubbling exhuberance"  and believe me I am making the most of my young adult by running around and being goofy as any young blue skin should but yes we should get back on topic, despite how much u guys r making me rofl right now! Archaic and 'Eylan y'all should be comedians ur so funny! "nurse wheel mme into the day room" priceless  anyways

OK, just took my geritol and ate a bowl of prunes. I am ready for a night of conlang fun....

BLAH BLAH ON TOPIC how do the animals on Pandora bathe if they can't get past their chests in water?

First of all, how do we know Pandoran land animals bathe? Maybe they are like lions, who cringe at the thought of water. (Our lion Kenya will walk away from you if you simply slosh some water in a bucket. He will swim if it is desperately important....like his favorite ball is floating in the middle of the pond.)

The spiracles looks like they can close. This would enable the animals to submerge for brief periods. They also might have a different center of bouyancy when they swim, that keeps the spiracles out of the water. Or, maybe some animals can breathe through their mouth when they need to be in water.