Do you think Avatar would have worked as an Animation?

[moonbeam]

Do you think "Avatar" would have worked as a cartoon movie similier to "Heavy Metal" or "Gandahar"? I think so.

[Toruk Makto]

I would have to disagree. Besides the epic storytelling, a big draw for the film was the 3D photo-realism from the detail of the CG artists and groundbreaking performance capture technology.  As a cartoon, it might have had a good run, but it would have been like just another Disney/Pixar effort. I don't think it would have been the top-grossing hit like we saw.

[Mesireatu]

No, I don't think so. If it's animated, all visual effects is explained by "That's just drawn". I think a lot of the magic with "Avatar" is that it's filmed in a very realistic way and that's creating magic.. Of course, I know it's made by computer/s, but I still hope you understand what I mean.
Compare the scenery when Jake first see the landscape on Pandora in daylight on the first day out. Yes, strange plants and animals, but nothing special really. But when he had escaped from the thanathor and walks through the forest/jungle when it's night (before he meet Neytiri), that's just plain Magic!! And that effect, you can't achive if you animate it. I'm qiute certain of that!!

[Tìtstewan]

Interesting. I would see this neutral. An animates version could be nice, and it's possible. But why they should do this? Avatar was a milestone regarding their effects and virtualisation. It's possible that they could do a new milestone in the animated movie?

Spoiler: just tree example I did

...now imagine that 100 times better and in color...

But to be honest, I don't think they will doing that.

[Mesireatu]

Wow! You're really good at drawing, my friend! But, I still think it wouldn't be a good idea to animate Avatar.
Do you remember the movie Garfield? In that, they tried made a real film about Garfield, but in that case, I think an animate film would be better.
Maybe, I'm just a stupid blonde, but I think different films are better as real movie and vice verse. What would you think of, let's say Donald Duck, as a real movie? Big no-no for me! They tried to do Howard the duck and Fritz the cat as real movies, and that flopped too..
They also tried to animate The Lord Of The Rings. First they made an ordinary movie with actors, then they painted the movie, so it shold look animated. The reason was that they wanted the characters move in a realistic way. Do I need to say it flopped too? On the other hand, the Tintin movie some time ago, was a success. Maybe because the tecnique is much better now. But I still had the feeling of an animated Tintin comic book. On the other hand, maybe it was done so, by purpose.
So, I don't say 100% yes and/or 100% no to one thing, let the movie decide it. And Avatar and the world of Pandora deserves a real movie! Keep up the good work!

[`Eylan Ayfalulukanä]

Absolutely not. For all the reasons given.

[archaic]

An animated Avatar could have been well made, Cameron doesn't make rubbish, he's too much of a perfectionist for that.
Would it have been as good? I think not
Would it have made as much money? I think not.
Would it have cost as much to make? Probably not.
Would I like it as much? Maybe.

What is the closest to an animated Avatar to get the feel for how it might have looked? I'd recommend How To Train Your Dragon.
Great movie, many of the things Cameron sighted as reasons not to use animation are resolved. Seriously, if you haven't seen it, go watch it!

[Txur’Itan]

Do you think Avatar would have worked as an Animation?

As an initial or first story/feature not nearly so well as it had become.

As a side series that runs in parallel to the movies, an Avatar based animated TV show could do well if it was a compelling story. I could see this working more now that Avatar is well known and has an established community of fans.

The draw for lower detailed animation Vs. photo realistic computer aided animation, is all about the effectiveness of suspending disbelief for audiences, or appealing to the tastes of certain types of movie goers.

Even Disney has abandoned 2D animation cell frame hand animation, a significant change considering its history.

To contrast using popular CGI films, Pixar, DreamWorks Animation, and Sony Animation flix tend to be more deliberately cartoon-like in the presentation of character designs, exaggerated facial features, and reduced color depth. This appeals well enough to families and children, while reducing production times and costs. That is not to say that these studios may not change. But for now, they would not need to do things the same way as Lighstorm to be successful.

With the same production effort, and budget, even if less successful than Avatar with any single feature, Pixar would not necessarily appeal to their core demographic using a Photo realistic depiction; say like that of the characters from Toy Story or something.

Spoiler

Interesting. I would see this neutral. An animates version could be nice, and it's possible. But why they should do this? Avatar was a milestone regarding their effects and virtualisation. It's possible that they could do a new milestone in the animated movie?

Spoiler: just tree example I did

...now imagine that 100 times better and in color...

But to be honest, I don't think they will doing that.

How long did it take you to do these? Can you achieve this detail without clear reference stills, such as working from memory?

[Tìtstewan]

Interesting. I would see this neutral. An animates version could be nice, and it's possible. But why they should do this? Avatar was a milestone regarding their effects and virtualisation. It's possible that they could do a new milestone in the animated movie?

Spoiler: just tree example I did

...now imagine that 100 times better and in color...

But to be honest, I don't think they will doing that.

How long did it take you to do these? Can you achieve this detail without clear reference stills, such as working from memory?

As for your first question:

For Neytiri: ~4h For Tsyeyk (Jake): ~5h For Tsu'tey: ~7h

As for the second question, I usually sketch with much details

Spoiler: Example of a 6 years old picture I did at school

that light reflextions is caused by my photocamera...

But for these picture I had to watch Avatar again to remind the details of their pattern, chlothes etc. before I started to scetch them.

[archaic]

With the same production effort, and budget, even if less successful than Avatar with any single feature, Pixar would not necessarily appeal to their core demographic using a Photo realistic depiction; say like that of the characters from Toy Story or something.

True, kids like bright primary colors on bold smooth surfaces, not pastel shades and subtle textures.
As awesome as that photo-realistic Buzz Lightyear is, and it is, there's actually a whole heap of thing wrong with it. For a start, Buzz is a toy, and toy's don't look like that! Such a level of detail in something that could be sold at a price which most folks would pay for a kids toy, is not currently possible.
The render in the movie looks more like a genuine toy, but then 'Toy Story' is kind of an exception for several reasons.



Expect 'How To Train Your Dragon 2' to be closer to realism in many aspects, but not in the style. I'm firmly expecting over all look to be very similar to the first movie, but many technical aspects to be refined.

Budgets .....
Toy story, 1995 ..... $30 000 000
HTTYD, 2010 .....    $165 000 000
Avatar, 2009 .....     $237 000 000



EDIT: Picture link reestablished.

[`Eylan Ayfalulukanä]

I was very sad when I confirmed that Disney has all but done away with hand-drawn animation. If there is any good news in that, it is that it will come back again at some point when CGI animation has run its course.

But I was pleased to see that 'The Lion King' is still far and away the most successful animated film (hand-drawn, of course) they ever produced

'Tarzan' is an especially important animated film, as it used some interesting pseudo-3D drawing tricks, that are quite effective.

I answered the question based on 2D hand drawn animation. IMHO, 3D animation wouldn't have helped much, if at all. Avatar needed to be live action.

[archaic]

Are we are coming to the conclusion that an animated Avatar could have been good to really good, but not as good as the live action/performance capture CGI version that Cameron delivered?

[Mesireatu]

Sounds fair and square..

[Blue Elf]

Do you think "Avatar" would have worked as a cartoon movie similier to "Heavy Metal" or "Gandahar"? I think so.

I don't know these two, but I can't imagine Avatar as cartoon movie. I'm in doubts that it would be so realistic and wonderful as in 3D "standard" movie.

Do you remember the movie Garfield? In that, they tried made a real film about Garfield, but in that case, I think an animate film would be better.

yes. I love Garfield as cartoon, but this film was not so good as Garfield drawn on paper. Animation here probably would work much better, IMHO

[moonbeam]

Do you think "Avatar" would have worked as a cartoon movie similier to "Heavy Metal" or "Gandahar"? I think so.

I don't know these two, but I can't imagine Avatar as cartoon movie. I'm in doubts that it would be so realistic and wonderful as in 3D "standard" movie.

Do you remember the movie Garfield? In that, they tried made a real film about Garfield, but in that case, I think an animate film would be better.

yes. I love Garfield as cartoon, but this film was not so good as Garfield drawn on paper. Animation here probably would work much better, IMHO

Here are the trailers. Both are NSFW:


Heavy Metal: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZMNjdCel8L8


Gandahar: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gXtDioDJtA

[archaic]

I missed Heavy Metal completely, but the trailer for Gandahar rings a very faint bell, I never did watch the movie.

[Toruk Makto]

Are we are coming to the conclusion that an animated Avatar could have been good to really good, but not as good as the live action/performance capture CGI version that Cameron delivered?

I think that is a fair statement, yes.

[Txur’Itan]

Do you think "Avatar" would have worked as a cartoon movie similier to "Heavy Metal" or "Gandahar"? I think so.

I don't know these two, but I can't imagine Avatar as cartoon movie. I'm in doubts that it would be so realistic and wonderful as in 3D "standard" movie.

Do you remember the movie Garfield? In that, they tried made a real film about Garfield, but in that case, I think an animate film would be better.

yes. I love Garfield as cartoon, but this film was not so good as Garfield drawn on paper. Animation here probably would work much better, IMHO

I missed Heavy Metal completely, but the trailer for Gandahar rings a very faint bell, I never did watch the movie.

Gandahar and Heavy Metal were awesome.
So was The Hobbit (1977 film),  Fire and Ice (1983), Wizards (1977) .

Production wise, they were using the early rotoscoping techniques, which at the time were experimental at best, and distorting of the contiguous flow of animated images at worst. If they were done today, each would have a very different look to it, perhaps more like the Beowulf (2007) CGI movie than anything else.

Are we are coming to the conclusion that an animated Avatar could have been good to really good, but not as good as the live action/performance capture CGI version that Cameron delivered?

I think that is a fair statement, yes.

Yep.

[archaic]

I missed Heavy Metal completely, but the trailer for Gandahar rings a very faint bell, I never did watch the movie.

Gandahar and Heavy Metal were awesome.
So was The Hobbit (1977 film),  Fire and Ice (1983), Wizards (1977) .

I haven't seen Fire and Ice, or Wizards.
I did see the 1977 version of The Hobbit, I'm sorry, I wasn't a fan. I'd read the book before I watched it, the movie fell someway short of my imagination of the book, I was also at a point in my life where I was off animated movies entirely.
Yet I was still OK with Tom and Jerry, Buggs Bunny, Pink Panther and a couple of others.

[Raiden]

I could definitely see Avatar work as an animated film.

However, it depends on the art style. Japanese animation ("anime") would work well in some ways but not others; Japanese animators tend to draw eyes in such a way that it would be a poor fit for Avatar. The relative fluidity of Japanese animation would make it a good fit, though, so maybe a blend of styles would be best.

I'd like to see somebody try, though. There's a flash animation floating around that is actually a parody of Avatar, but the animation in it is well done and the Na'vi look pretty good.