If Your Avatar Dies...

[Eana Ketuwong]

Ok, so what happens if your Avatar body dies, and you don't really get out of the link in time? Do you die too? Or do you automatically die? Because...Norm's Avatar died, but he lived and, it's confusing to me. Kind of...

The theory (for me) is:
If you become truly connected to Eywa, and your Avatar dies, do you die?

Or:

Your Avatar dies a gruesome death, and it affects your Human body so badly, you die along with it.

Does this make sense? If it does, please tell me what you think!

[Txonä Unil Stä'nìyu Rolyusì]

I think when Norm's avatar was shot, it just terminated the link. It is eveident in the movie though that he was in great pain when he came out of the link pod. So, I think you may be on the right track with your theory that if your avatar dies a grusome enough death that it will affect your human body badly enough to kill it.

-Txonä Rolyu

[Swoka Ikran]

As far as the movie goes, when the avatar dies, you just wake up feeling what the avatar felt when it died...in Norm's case, the chest pain and heavy breathing associated with being shot.

As for avatar death causing your real body to die...physically, there's nothing wrong with your real body when it comes out of link. Severe pain by itself won't kill you, but there's certainly potential for psychological damage that could lead to death.

[Amaya]

As far as the movie goes, when the avatar dies, you just wake up feeling what the avatar felt when it died...in Norm's case, the chest pain and heavy breathing associated with being shot.

As for avatar death causing your real body to die...physically, there's nothing wrong with your real body when it comes out of link. Severe pain by itself won't kill you, but there's certainly potential for psychological damage that could lead to death.

Actually, Norm looked very much like he was having a heart attack, and I would postulate that the sudden strain on a body used to not doing very much (ie: lying around in a link bed all day) could cause such an effect.  Not to mention the possibilities of the brain being confused by the stimuli it received from the avatar and creating a massive psychosomatic effect.  Sure, if your avatar gets sliced open you aren't going to bleed, but the hormonal fight/flight response and the nervous system could be heavily damaged just by the sudden change from one to the other.

Hope that made some kind of sense  am slightly overtired at the moment.

[Swoka Ikran]

As far as the movie goes, when the avatar dies, you just wake up feeling what the avatar felt when it died...in Norm's case, the chest pain and heavy breathing associated with being shot.

As for avatar death causing your real body to die...physically, there's nothing wrong with your real body when it comes out of link. Severe pain by itself won't kill you, but there's certainly potential for psychological damage that could lead to death.

Actually, Norm looked very much like he was having a heart attack, and I would postulate that the sudden strain on a body used to not doing very much (ie: lying around in a link bed all day) could cause such an effect. 

That's what I thought at first as well...looked like a heart attack. But then I figured it couldn't have been one since he grabbed a gun and went out to keep fighting, so another the GSW to the chest could be a possibility...

Not to mention the possibilities of the brain being confused by the stimuli it received from the avatar and creating a massive psychosomatic effect.  Sure, if your avatar gets sliced open you aren't going to bleed, but the hormonal fight/flight response and the nervous system could be heavily damaged just by the sudden change from one to the other.

Didn't think about the nervous system...that could be ugly.

[Amaya]

As far as the movie goes, when the avatar dies, you just wake up feeling what the avatar felt when it died...in Norm's case, the chest pain and heavy breathing associated with being shot.

As for avatar death causing your real body to die...physically, there's nothing wrong with your real body when it comes out of link. Severe pain by itself won't kill you, but there's certainly potential for psychological damage that could lead to death.

Actually, Norm looked very much like he was having a heart attack, and I would postulate that the sudden strain on a body used to not doing very much (ie: lying around in a link bed all day) could cause such an effect. 

That's what I thought at first as well...looked like a heart attack. But then I figured it couldn't have been one since he grabbed a gun and went out to keep fighting, so another the GSW to the chest could be a possibility...

Possibly, but don't discount the fact that denial is an actual symptom of having a heart attack.  the phrase "heart attack" is misleading anyway.  Just because he didn't actually die from it doesn't mean he didn't have one.  It's quite possible to do a fair deal of damage to the heart and still be able to function, at least for a little while, and Norm is still looking significantly unwell when we see them kick the aliens back to their dying world...But of course it's all speculation unless Mr. Cameron lets us in on the secrets!

Not to mention the possibilities of the brain being confused by the stimuli it received from the avatar and creating a massive psychosomatic effect.  Sure, if your avatar gets sliced open you aren't going to bleed, but the hormonal fight/flight response and the nervous system could be heavily damaged just by the sudden change from one to the other.

Didn't think about the nervous system...that could be ugly.

No kidding!  Very, very ugly, given that, as Jake said "their nervous systems are in tune...or..something..."

[Swoka Ikran]

As far as the movie goes, when the avatar dies, you just wake up feeling what the avatar felt when it died...in Norm's case, the chest pain and heavy breathing associated with being shot.

As for avatar death causing your real body to die...physically, there's nothing wrong with your real body when it comes out of link. Severe pain by itself won't kill you, but there's certainly potential for psychological damage that could lead to death.

Actually, Norm looked very much like he was having a heart attack, and I would postulate that the sudden strain on a body used to not doing very much (ie: lying around in a link bed all day) could cause such an effect. 

That's what I thought at first as well...looked like a heart attack. But then I figured it couldn't have been one since he grabbed a gun and went out to keep fighting, so another the GSW to the chest could be a possibility...

Possibly, but don't discount the fact that denial is an actual symptom of having a heart attack.  the phrase "heart attack" is misleading anyway.  Just because he didn't actually die from it doesn't mean he didn't have one.  It's quite possible to do a fair deal of damage to the heart and still be able to function, at least for a little while, and Norm is still looking significantly unwell when we see them kick the aliens back to their dying world...But of course it's all speculation unless Mr. Cameron lets us in on the secrets!

He did seem like he wasn't feeling all that good in that scene...unfortunately, we don't know if got medical attention after that or what.

Somewhat related: I had a dream last night about there being a book titled "Link Systems: Safety and Operation"

[Lolet]

I read an early version of the script (too much free time) and in it there was a character whose avatar had died while he was using it. He was sort of crazy after that, wandering around with a blank stare. He was like a ghost.

[Kamean]

I read an early version of the script (too much free time) and in it there was a character whose avatar had died while he was using it. He was sort of crazy after that, wandering around with a blank stare. He was like a ghost.

This was because his beloved has been killed by RDA troops and he committed suicide, having forgotten that he was in the avatar body. Realizing that he had lost not only loved, but can not be with the people he was crazy.

In the usual case, the death of an avatar, this is like crude link disconnection.

[archaic]

In the project 880 script, Hegner committed avatar suicide, he allowed himself to be eaten by a slinth while inside. Apparently he's pretty messed up psychologically, but how much of that is due to him seeing his Na'vi mate named Li'Na killed by RDA troopers, and how much is due to him feeling his avatars pain and eventual death is unclear.

Spoiler

There's a crazy guy bussing the table named HEGNER.
Moving slow and vacant-eyed, he's obviously doped up on
something prescribed by the base psychtech.  Grace tells
them that Hegner used to be head of Xenobiology until his
avatar got killed... ripped apart by a SLINTH.  The slinth
is a large predator, fast as a cheetah, that spears its
prey with its head, which is like a venomous lance.  The
prey wobbles off and collapses, alive and conscious but
unable to move because of the neurotoxin.  The slinth eats
it alive.  Hegner felt himself die, and he hasn't been
right since.  Added to the trauma is the loss... the loss
of his other life, the one lived in his avatar body.

It's not avatar canon, but relevant, imho.

Edit:- Ninja'ed

[Lolet]

That's depressing. I'm glad they left it out of the movie.

[Ftxavanga Txe′lan]

I read an early version of the script (too much free time) and in it there was a character whose avatar had died while he was using it. He was sort of crazy after that, wandering around with a blank stare. He was like a ghost.

This was because his beloved has been killed by RDA troops and he committed suicide, having forgotten that he was in the avatar body. Realizing that he had lost not only loved, but can not be with the people he was crazy.

Jesus. Such tragedy.. Keftxo nìtxan nì'aw!

[Smaoe]

I read an early version of the script (too much free time) and in it there was a character whose avatar had died while he was using it. He was sort of crazy after that, wandering around with a blank stare. He was like a ghost.

This was because his beloved has been killed by RDA troops and he committed suicide, having forgotten that he was in the avatar body. Realizing that he had lost not only loved, but can not be with the people he was crazy.

Jesus. Such tragedy.. Keftxo nìtxan nì'aw!

No kidding. If that would've been put in the movie I'd have another part to cry at. 

[Kamean]

Agree

[Human No More]

You might die due to pain/shock, but it isn't a 'you will automatically die' thing.

[Eana Ketuwong]

You might die due to pain/shock, but it isn't a 'you will automatically die' thing.

['Itan Atxur]

As far as the movie goes, when the avatar dies, you just wake up feeling what the avatar felt when it died...in Norm's case, the chest pain and heavy breathing associated with being shot.

As for avatar death causing your real body to die...physically, there's nothing wrong with your real body when it comes out of link. Severe pain by itself won't kill you, but there's certainly potential for psychological damage that could lead to death.

Actually, Norm looked very much like he was having a heart attack, and I would postulate that the sudden strain on a body used to not doing very much (ie: lying around in a link bed all day) could cause such an effect.  Not to mention the possibilities of the brain being confused by the stimuli it received from the avatar and creating a massive psychosomatic effect.  Sure, if your avatar gets sliced open you aren't going to bleed, but the hormonal fight/flight response and the nervous system could be heavily damaged just by the sudden change from one to the other.

Hope that made some kind of sense  am slightly overtired at the moment.

This is exactly what I believe to be the case.

[Irtaviš Ačankif]

I think that it feels the same as getting shot by a gun in a dream and waking up. It does hurt a lot, but I think that it disappears instantly when the person comes out of the link. Norm was probably just really scared.

['Itan Atxur]

The reason I think it's different is because your mind is completely focused on what's happening with your avatar. Your body isn't in a dream state, it's wide awake and as far as it's concerned, the avatar body IS the real body.

[Irtaviš Ačankif]

That would make the scientists skxawngs, while I think that they are not.

Screenshots show that the link happens after "REM init" or initialization of the dream state. This is very useful because it will prevent Jake and Norm and Grace etc. from flinging their arms in the link pod etc.

What happens is that the avatar body is connected to the real brain. The human body is pretty useless. So it is not like the avatar gets shot and the same impulse is generated on the human BODY on the same place and then travels to the brain. It is simply transmitted directly into the brain - just like a dream.

By the way, Stephen LaBerge has a great research paper proving that in dreams, we are not skxawngs and are in fact as smart as we are in real life.