Native Population Displacement Issues

['Oma Tirea]

Sran.  There may not be flame wars, but there is this other crazy little thing called derailing.

[ExLibrisMortis]

Derailing, that thing that has been made overly taboo by the internet. Like, what could be a small simple, and warranted, tanget can become one of the carnal sins just because its a tad bit off topic. A little over the top in my opinion, really.

[Teylar Ta Palulukankelku]

and the two cultures resolve their differences.

Huh? Like when did this happen? In US history or in Avatar?

What do you mean  ?

You're kidding right?

I'm just wondering what you mean by saying no differences were resolved . Are you saying the native americans and the decendants of the european colonists haven't put those events behind them  ?

[ExLibrisMortis]

Well, I'll give you one example. There's a movement amongst the native Hawaiians for the return of sovereignty to Hawaii because it was illegally taken over and annexed by the United States.

[archaic]

I'm not qualified to fully answer that, but many of the wrongs committed by the US state have never been acknowledged, much less atoned for. Westerns have gone a long way to skew opinions of that piece of the past.
History was written by the white man, and painted him in a positive light. It often had little to do with the truth.

Guantanamo is simply the latest in a long and sorry list of atrocities committed by the US.

[Kamean]

I'm not qualified to fully answer that, but many of the wrongs committed by the US state have never been acknowledged, much less atoned for. Westerns have gone a long way to skew opinions of that piece of the past.
History was written by the white man, and painted him in a positive light. It often had little to do with the truth.

Guantanamo is simply the latest in a long and sorry list of atrocities committed by the US.

Mllte nìwotx.

[ExLibrisMortis]

Guantanamo is a necessary means to an end.

And the US actually HAS addressed the issues of the past.

Apology to the Hawaiian Natives
Apology to the Native Americans

Just 2 examples of many.

And don't ever forget that those "atrocities" committed can be exploited by both sides. Yes, the do'ers committed them, but the victims can and usually do over exaggerate them if they need to. Just the same with slavery, just the same with "class wars", and just the same as many other events.

[Teylar Ta Palulukankelku]

I'm not qualified to fully answer that, but many of the wrongs committed by the US state have never been acknowledged, much less atoned for.

Sorry for sounding like a cold bastard, but i'm not sure that's our generation's concern. I mean, i, at least, wouldn't want to be held responsible for the atrocities my ancestors did commit  . What do the european decendants of america really owe the native americans? I think it's a little absurd to hold someone responsible for the sins of their father  . I even feel offended as a white sometimes, because it seems so many people of so many cultures feels i owe them something  !

[ExLibrisMortis]

I'm not qualified to fully answer that, but many of the wrongs committed by the US state have never been acknowledged, much less atoned for.

Sorry for sounding like a cold bastard, but i'm not sure that's our generation's concern. I mean, i, at least, wouldn't want to be held responsible for the atrocities my ancestors did commit  . What do the european decendants of america really owe the native americans? I think it's a little absurd to hold someone responsible for the sins of their father  . I even feel offended as a white sometimes, because it seems so many people of so many cultures feels i owe them something  !

*applauds* I agree wholly sir. I am quite impressed by this too.

*Ahem* getting back to the ACTUAL TOPIC not that this isn't fascinating if not a bit infuriating if we allow it to be which it shouldn't because it would best be resolved in Spam or PM...

Hmmmm... Quaritch comes back, played by Chuck Norris!

THIIIIISSSSS!


Wouldn't that be something.... 

[Teylar Ta Palulukankelku]

*applauds* I agree wholly sir. I am quite impressed by this too.

I'm glad i have your support in this. Coming to think of it, it's a little ironic that you agree with me. We usually have quite separate opinions about things  .

Don't you sometimes feel that some native americans are prejudistic against whites due to what white people have done to them in the past. Sure, the white colonialists did them a lot of harm, but i still think they should let it go. Our generation has nothing to do with that (Although i've heard that there's a lot of legal disputes between the colonialist's decendants and the native americans regarding property rights etc. etc.).

[Kamean]

Don't you sometimes feel that some native americans are prejudistic against whites due to what white people have done to them in the past. Sure, the white colonialists did them a lot of harm, but i still think they should let it go. Our generation has nothing to do with that (Although i've heard that there's a lot of legal disputes between the colonialist's decendants and the native americans regarding property rights etc. etc.).

Injustice must be corrected. The villains, of course, have already died but the victims did not stop being victims. Therefore, the discussion is taking place.

[Teylar Ta Palulukankelku]

I know. But still: I think it's a little unfair judging someone by the ``sins of their father´´  .

[Txur’Itan]

This thread is very far off topic.

Ethno centric entitlement vs reparations discussions should be in its own thread.

[ExLibrisMortis]

*Supports closure of thread*

New one can be started at a later time if it is deemed necessary.

[Teylar Ta Palulukankelku]

This thread is very far off topic.

I disagree. We began talking about the native american issue only due to Pocahontas resemblence to Avatar, so i think we're still quite on topic.

*Supports closure of thread*

New one can be started at a later time if it is deemed necessary.

I thought you weren't that harsh about derailing from the topic on the net:

Derailing, that thing that has been made overly taboo by the internet. Like, what could be a small simple, and warranted, tanget can become one of the carnal sins just because its a tad bit off topic. A little over the top in my opinion, really.

Or do you think the thread should be closed for some other reason  ?

[Txur’Itan]

This thread is very far off topic.

I disagree. We began talking about the native american issue only due to Pocahontas resemblence to Avatar, so i think we're still quite on topic.

You are allowed to disagree, however, the original topic of this thread is about things that persons who dislike the movie have cited as points of critique for the movie and James Cameron's approach to making the movie Avatar, and the responses one might give to such statements.

What you are discussing here now is a very wide tangent of miscellanea items that have not a clear and concise relationship to the original post at this point.

*Supports closure of thread*

New one can be started at a later time if it is deemed necessary.

New thread seems warranted, closing this thread may not be necessary, but it should probably be split, I just need to think about where.

[Teylar Ta Palulukankelku]

Good idea about splitting the thread, ma Txur  . And now that i think about it, the discussion in this thread have derailed quite far from the original topic  .

[Txur’Itan]

The topics have been split with the old one closed.  The current ongoing discussion from before is here.

[Amaya]

I'm not qualified to fully answer that, but many of the wrongs committed by the US state have never been acknowledged, much less atoned for.

Sorry for sounding like a cold bastard, but i'm not sure that's our generation's concern. I mean, i, at least, wouldn't want to be held responsible for the atrocities my ancestors did commit  . What do the european decendants of america really owe the native americans? I think it's a little absurd to hold someone responsible for the sins of their father  . I even feel offended as a white sometimes, because it seems so many people of so many cultures feels i owe them something  !

How is this our generation's concern?  Because many of the native peoples affected ARE STILL AFFECTED.  Yes, there isn't outright warfare anymore, but even until the children of my own generation (born in the late 1970s) Native children in both Canada and the US were sent to residential schools (I think they called them "indian boarding schools" or something similar in the states) where they were forcibly stripped of their culture, punished for speaking their own language, and VERY often physically, mentally, and sexually abused.

It is still more difficult for Native people to get good-paying, high-profile jobs, and it's still (even with support) more difficult for them to get higher education, although, of course, this isn't always to do with anything the government or the rest of the population so much as the pervasive culture within the native communities themselves of thinking less of themselves.

Anyway, I would also like to point out that I say this as a "white woman" who has never been through any of those difficulties I mentioned.  Anyway, just keep in mind that things are not as far in the past as the rest of the world might think.

[Lolet]

Civil rights was only about 50 years ago, right?