Pandora's Human Population

[Oelatem]

Niaytxoa if this has been asked before (I tried a search but came up empty).

Is there any information on just how many humans work at Hell's Gate?  It's the last piece of the puzzle I need for my fic, and I just can't find a headcount anywhere.

Irayo for the help as always.

[Duma Vadamee {Aungia Tsawkeyä}]

look on the credits of the movie. it should give how many people participated by saying something like "Scientist 1, Scientist 2, Scientist 3" and so on.

['Oma Tirea]

look on the credits of the movie. it should give how many people participated by saying something like "Scientist 1, Scientist 2, Scientist 3" and so on.

Doesn't really say, as it was mostly background rendering

[Oelatem]

Ok, I looked up some stuff and crunched a few numbers based on some assumptions, let me see if they make any sense.

First off, we know that no more than 200 people left Pandora at the end since that's the maximum passenger load for the Venture Star (according to http://james-camerons-avatar.wikia.com/wiki/Interstellar_Vehicle_Venture_Star#Cargo).  I also remember reading somewhere the idea that SecOps personnel comprised 20-30% of Hell's Gate's population.  If we go with a worst case scenario (the ISV is packed to the gills and every SecOps employee was killed), that gives a calculation of 200+60.  I figure with the scientists and Avatar drivers/support personnel we can round that to an even 300 humans on Pandora at any given time.

Now that seems a little low to me, especially if each ISV brings a full load of 200 (which makes sense for a corporate setup who wants the most out of every dollar spent).  I'm thinking that maybe a 50% turnover rate for non-management and permanent/semi-permanet personnel (people like Selfridge, Quartich, Grace, and most if not all of the active Avatar drivers), then we can bump the population up to 400 to 500, though I wouldn't discount a number as high as 600.

Any other thoughts?

[archaic]

Based on a few assumptions.
OK we see Quaritch give a briefing and motivational speech in the commissary, before the big battle.
There are six pairs of tables, seating for seven each side, that's
6x2x7x2=168 seated
Plus more standing.
I make it around 220 to 230 (ish), what we don't know is what proportion of hell's gate's personnel this is.

[archaic]

Please forgive the double post, but I'm thinking about this all wrong.

There are two hundred personnel carried on an capital class ISV.
Norm hints that a tour of duty is six years.
Venture Star "is part of a looping supply chain" I'd guess at a thirteen year round trip.
There are twelve ships in the supply chain loop, so I make that thirteen months seperation.

If every ship carries two hundred passengers, that would make for around 1200 personnel at Hell's Gate at the time of the war.
20-30% of this would mean 240 to 360 in SecOps, that figure seems plausible to me, given the on screen fighting force.

Sources

Spoiler

"200 passengers in cryosleep"
http://james-camerons-avatar.wikia.com/wiki/Interstellar_Vehicle_Venture_Star

"Plus it'll help keep you sane, for the next six years." Norm Spellman, Avatar movie dialogue.

"The ISV Venture Star is just one of ten spaceships that the RDA utilizes for interstellar trade between Earth and Pandora."
..... and .....
"The ISV Venture Star is a Capital Star class ship. There was at least one predecessor to the ISV Venture Star and other Capital Star class ships. This predecessor was four times as massive as the current design, since it used cold superconductors (because no unobtanium was available when building it), which required much bigger radiators. In total there are 12 ships transporting cargo and crew between Pandora and Earth. Nine of them are Capital Star class ships of the same type as the ISV Venture Star."
http://james-camerons-avatar.wikia.com/wiki/Interstellar_Vehicle_Venture_Star
So, if I've read this right, the predecessor was later modified to be more like a Capital Class, retrofitted with unobtainium technology engines, the radiators changed, and presumably passenger/cargo capacity increased.
Also that means that two ships in the loop are not utilized by the RDA. Whose are they? And what are their specifications?

They travel out (five years nine months and twenty two days), loiter twelve months in orbit around pandora, travel back (five years nine months and twenty two days), total of twelve years seven moths and fifteen days.
Turn round in orbit around earth, say four and and one half months. Total thirteen years for the round trip.

[Arantele]

This might be a little off topic... But I'm curious as to how many humans will be on pandora in the next movie.. Since at the end, Jake sully said "The aliens went back to their dying world....only a few were chosen to stay"... I'm pretty sure we can assume that most if not all of the scientists and avatar operators stayed since we can see them as most of the other humans are loading up onto the valkrye shuttle...

Anyone have any thoughts?

[archaic]

Um, well yes actually, a couple of the fanfics mention them, here's mine.
Please note that I'd dismissed the twelve ships in rotation out of hand before I'd done the math above.
I did give my reasons.

Scene7, this exert is between Norm and a very badly burned, but very much alive Trudy.

Trudy "So how many have stayed."
Norm "You know the chef in the commissary, the crazy frenchman, the one who named it 'Hell's Kitchen'?"
Trudy "Maurice, I bet he was first on the shuttle, he couldn't wait to leave."
Norm "He stayed."
Trudy looks at Norm in amazement, but the effect is slightly ruined by the bruising and swelling.
Norm "All the avatar drivers stayed, half the support team, 9 flight tech's, 5 from construction, 1 dumper driver, 1 dozer driver, 3 or 4 site maintenance crew, the stuck up air traffic controller, a couple from the offices. Your brother stayed and a couple others. And Jake, obviously. It's around 60 in total."
Trudy "I thought it would just be me & bro. Some of the avatar drivers. Maybe a couple of white coats. And Jake. 20, maybe 25 but no more."
Norm "Too many human survivors, around 60 more than venture stars cryo units could take."
Norm still applying the cream.
Norm, slightly disturbed, "Too many human survivors. I never thought I'd have to say that."

[Human No More]

Well, just from numbers you can see around, I'd guess maybe 10-20 avatars, I'd guess that most of the other scientists probably stayed too.

[archaic]

We see thirteen avatars in the movie. at least I think I count thirteen.

['Oma Tirea]

Well, just from numbers you can see around, I'd guess maybe 10-20 avatars, I'd guess that most of the other scientists probably stayed too.

Apparently that's what I read off of the JC AVATAR wiki...

[archaic]

There's no reason to think there can't be other avatar's, that we don't see, just there can be no less than thirteen.
I mean we don't see the latrine, but there must be some kind of facilities, six years is long time to hold it.
We don't see any provisions for surface water run off, but there must be drainage.
Etc, etc.

[Arantele]

Im imagining that most of the scientists stayed on pandora.. and at the end we saw the avatars which were left were helping to guard the column of humans as they were walking towards the shuttle.. In that scene I think I counted between 5 and 6 avatars. And then Norm and Max...

[archaic]

I counted seven, including Jake. Plus Norm and Max that's a minimum of nine.
So anywhere between nine and over nine hundred humans remain on Pandora.





(My post 700!)