Author Topic: teaching children Na'vi?  (Read 9822 times)

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Offline 'Ì'awn Menari

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Re: teaching children Na'vi?
« Reply #100 on: July 11, 2010, 10:11:07 am »
I'm starting to think we should bring this thread to a close now...too much negative energy going around.
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Offline Muzer

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Re: teaching children Na'vi?
« Reply #101 on: July 11, 2010, 10:16:57 am »
What's wrong with a heated debate?
[21:42:56] <@Muzer> Apple products used to be good, if expensive
[21:42:59] <@Muzer> now they are just expensive

Offline 'Ì'awn Menari

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Re: teaching children Na'vi?
« Reply #102 on: July 11, 2010, 10:19:42 am »
nothing's wrong with a heated debate aside from when it continues on, and on and no one is winning so there's not much of a point.
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Offline Kekerusey

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Re: teaching children Na'vi?
« Reply #103 on: July 11, 2010, 11:52:20 am »
I'm starting to think we should bring this thread to a close now...too much negative energy going around.

Well ... if "negative energy" is a euphemism for standing firm on my point until someone supplies a reasoned argument as to why it is OK to treat children as if they were toys then fine, I have "negative energy"! I'll stand with my argument, hell I'm proud of it!

Now I have explained [ad nauseum] why it is cruel to treat children in this fashion and as yet, Muzer excepted (his view being an aside that we disagreed on), I haven't heard a single reasoned point back that doesn't translate as some version of "because I want to and I think it would be great fun [to mistreat children]" so yeah, I agree it is largely done.  should be closed. Naturally I reserve the right to continue should anyone decide to continue to promote such stupidity :)

What I will do though is make an observation ... the vast majority of denizens here are young (check this thread) and if you make the assumption (and I stress that's all it is) that people don't tend to get married until they are over 25 (most kids presumed to be born in wedlock) then it would appear that most of those advancing these views are 25 or under (I checked quickly against some of the individual profiles and it seemed even more acutely biased towards younger people). I think therefore it is reasonable to suggest that most of the people in this thread have not yet had the chance to really consider the responsibilities of parenthood, IOW you really have no (ZERO, NADA, ZIP) idea what you are talking about ... call that elitist if you wish but the fact is I DO KNOW what it means to be a parent, I DO KNOW what responsibilities like with me WRT my children and I DO VERY, VERY MUCH take those responsibilities seriously.

So, to those who want to continue living in fairy gah gah land, I'd suggest  come back on this when you have actually had some real responsibility for a child (and I don't mean baby-sitting, I mean you've had to make the real hard, tough decisions a parent has to make regarding the welfare of his or her children) and let's see whether your views reflect the naivety I see saturating this thread.

Keke
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Offline kewnya txamew'itan

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Re: teaching children Na'vi?
« Reply #104 on: July 11, 2010, 12:27:28 pm »
I think I agree with 'ì'awn, this thread has run its course and is just going to keep going as an ever escalating shouting match and I can't really see it ending. If this thread keeps going like this (as a shouting match getting ever closer to a flame war) I'll lock it to try and stop it getting that far, so try to keep calm about it (both sides) and not to use such emotive language (it's just the whole "pro-life" fallacy all over again) and the caps.

[/mod]

[on topic]

(most kids presumed to be born in wedlock)

I don't know about other countries, but here in the UK, I believe that that is no longer the case (and the proportion born in wedlock is only falling).

That said, I agree with you that, given the age demographics of this forum, most people here don't have much experience of the issues at hand from the point of view of a parent. That said, a lot of people on this forum do have experience of the issues from the point of view of a schoolchild (either currently or recently), and I imagine that a topic about teaching children na'vi is going to attract a higher proportion of people with children than the forum in general.

Lastly, I wouldn't teach my children na'vi, but not because I believe it would be wrong. Provided the child is brought up speaking the language of their country then I doubt they'd get bullied any more than the people at my school who speak Russian, Polish, Cantonese or Punjabi at home. That said, na'vi doesn't particularly help the child to communicate with any new community in the same way that those languages do, and so it won't be of much use to them in later life and the benefits an adult gains from learning na'vi in terms of increased linguistic understanding almost certainly won't be passed on to a child picking it up by immersion any more than I learnt linguistics when I learnt English. Lastly, without a specific community for the child to talk to in the language they would be incredibly likely to reject the language (as in the case of d'Armond Speers) which happens even in natural languages with a community.

All in all, I'd rather opt to teach any child of mine a natural language that I speak well, like Spanish. Not because I believe it would be wrong to teach them na'vi, but because I think it would be of little or no use to them.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2010, 12:44:21 pm by kemeoauniaea »
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Offline Muzer

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Re: teaching children Na'vi?
« Reply #105 on: July 11, 2010, 12:35:11 pm »
(it's just the whole "pro-life" fallacy)

...what? I think you might be getting a little confused there, pro-life is when people (mostly religious) believe that a foetus having life is more important than everything else (the quality of its life). I'm more than a little confused on what you meant there...
[21:42:56] <@Muzer> Apple products used to be good, if expensive
[21:42:59] <@Muzer> now they are just expensive

Offline kewnya txamew'itan

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Re: teaching children Na'vi?
« Reply #106 on: July 11, 2010, 12:38:20 pm »
I know, I couldn't remember the proper name for the fallacy. "pro-life" was an example. It's where you set yourself up as supporting something undeniably good and making that a fundamental part of your side, thus implying that the other side in the argument is against it and is therefore evil. Pro-life is a term used to imply that pro-choice people are anti-life. Likewise, pro-choice is used to imply that pro-life people are anti-choice.

Internet Acronyms Nìna'vi

hamletä tìralpuseng lena'vi sngolä'eiyi. tìkangkem si awngahu ro
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Offline Muzer

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Re: teaching children Na'vi?
« Reply #107 on: July 11, 2010, 12:42:45 pm »
Oh, I see - I was wondering actually if you were meaning to use it as a simile or metaphor ("it's just the whole "pro-life" fallacy all over again" would have made more sense to me).
[21:42:56] <@Muzer> Apple products used to be good, if expensive
[21:42:59] <@Muzer> now they are just expensive

Offline kewnya txamew'itan

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Re: teaching children Na'vi?
« Reply #108 on: July 11, 2010, 12:52:34 pm »
You're probably right, edited.

I've looked up the fallacy. I think it's probably a false dilemma and an appeal to emotion lumped into one big lump of illogic (that should be a word) :D
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Offline Kekerusey

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Re: teaching children Na'vi?
« Reply #109 on: July 11, 2010, 01:21:49 pm »
I know, I couldn't remember the proper name for the fallacy. "pro-life" was an example. It's where you set yourself up as supporting something undeniably good and making that a fundamental part of your side, thus implying that the other side in the argument is against it and is therefore evil. Pro-life is a term used to imply that pro-choice people are anti-life. Likewise, pro-choice is used to imply that pro-life people are anti-choice.

Excuse me? I can only presume you are referring to me (if not, my bad) ... where did I set myself up as "undeniably good" or refer to others as "evil". Let's get this absolutely straight ... I consider those that support the teaching of fictional languages to very young children as stupid, not "evil". My argument wasn't an appeal to emotion, it was based entirely on reason ... there is nothing fallacious about my stated argument or stance.

Fair enough if you (as a mod) are going to slap others down but at least do it for the right reasons please! The CAPS were used for emphasis an not out of internet ignorance BTW ... I'm far, far too old and too internet savvy to use them in ignorance :)

Oh and BTW, I am broadly speaking pro-life ... one of the very few atheists I know who is.

Keke
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Offline Muzer

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Re: teaching children Na'vi?
« Reply #110 on: July 11, 2010, 01:36:35 pm »
Yeah - I do find caps useful for emphasis when you're in a lazy mood and can't be bothered to use the mouse, or type in forum tags (I use caps quite a lot)
[21:42:56] <@Muzer> Apple products used to be good, if expensive
[21:42:59] <@Muzer> now they are just expensive

Offline kewnya txamew'itan

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Re: teaching children Na'vi?
« Reply #111 on: July 11, 2010, 03:05:02 pm »
I know, I couldn't remember the proper name for the fallacy. "pro-life" was an example. It's where you set yourself up as supporting something undeniably good and making that a fundamental part of your side, thus implying that the other side in the argument is against it and is therefore evil. Pro-life is a term used to imply that pro-choice people are anti-life. Likewise, pro-choice is used to imply that pro-life people are anti-choice.

Excuse me? I can only presume you are referring to me (if not, my bad) ... where did I set myself up as "undeniably good" or refer to others as "evil". Let's get this absolutely straight ... I consider those that support the teaching of fictional languages to very young children as stupid, not "evil". My argument wasn't an appeal to emotion, it was based entirely on reason ... there is nothing fallacious about my stated argument or stance.

Fair enough if you (as a mod) are going to slap others down but at least do it for the right reasons please! The CAPS were used for emphasis an not out of internet ignorance BTW ... I'm far, far too old and too internet savvy to use them in ignorance :)

Oh and BTW, I am broadly speaking pro-life ... one of the very few atheists I know who is.

Keke

I was referring to the entire slant this topic's taken on of late.

And it seems I was misremembering the specific instances, they weren't so much setting theirselves up as undeniably good so mucha as (at least appearing to be) appealing to emotion (also a logical fallacy). Specific examples are how "it is cruel to treat children in this fashion" from you, the entire god or not tangent, and there were others earlier on that I can't find right now (my search-fu has always been weak).

Lastly, with caps, I'm sorry if it wasn't your intention, by I (and I imagine many other people reading this thread) thought that they were (as they are widely) used to indicate shouting. If you want to emphasise, may I suggest italics instead as an alternative with fewer negative connotations. I guess I was particularly twitchy given some of the rest of this thread.

I regret bringing up the abortion thing now, I don't want to take this off on another tangent.

Anyway, whatever, it doesn't matter particularly who did what, this thread is getting quite close to appearing like a flame war, and I doubt any of us want that, so please, try to keep everything looking nice. :)
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Offline Kekerusey

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Re: teaching children Na'vi?
« Reply #112 on: July 11, 2010, 04:06:44 pm »
Yeah - I do find caps useful for emphasis when you're in a lazy mood and can't be bothered to use the mouse, or type in forum tags (I use caps quite a lot)

Cheek ;)

Keke
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Offline Duma Vadamee {Aungia Tsawkeyä}

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Re: teaching children Na'vi?
« Reply #113 on: July 12, 2010, 11:25:15 am »
Yeah - I do find caps useful for emphasis when you're in a lazy mood and can't be bothered to use the mouse, or type in forum tags (I use caps quite a lot)

Cheek ;)

Keke

what does fallout have to do with...never mind.

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Offline Lolet

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Re: teaching children Na'vi?
« Reply #114 on: July 12, 2010, 02:02:54 pm »
Teaching kids about any of your hobbies is useless, because most of them are unhelpful. If your child doesn't want to speak Na'vi he won't. Besides, it's better than letting your kid watch TV.

Offline 'Ì'awn Menari

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Re: teaching children Na'vi?
« Reply #115 on: July 12, 2010, 08:34:39 pm »
Teaching kids about any of your hobbies is useless, because most of them are unhelpful. If your child doesn't want to speak Na'vi he won't. Besides, it's better than letting your kid watch TV.

Lolet we're going to let the conversation drop ^_^.
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Offline Lolet

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Re: teaching children Na'vi?
« Reply #116 on: July 12, 2010, 09:27:10 pm »
oops oops tsap'alute

Offline 'Ì'awn Menari

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Re: teaching children Na'vi?
« Reply #117 on: July 12, 2010, 09:45:33 pm »
mawe, mawe it's fine.  just letting you know  ;)
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Offline Eyamsiyu

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Re: teaching children Na'vi?
« Reply #118 on: July 12, 2010, 10:05:02 pm »
I think by the time I have kids, I'll will have learned quite a few languages.  So, for sure I'll teach the local language (since I'll live in Europe), English later, and then Na'vi.


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Offline Duma Vadamee {Aungia Tsawkeyä}

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Re: teaching children Na'vi?
« Reply #119 on: July 13, 2010, 02:34:26 pm »
good idea

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