Author Topic: teaching children Na'vi?  (Read 9814 times)

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Offline Duma Vadamee {Aungia Tsawkeyä}

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Re: teaching children Na'vi?
« Reply #40 on: July 05, 2010, 04:04:34 pm »
Actually, I think it would be better to teach them English and Na'vi at the same time. It would be like showing them a ball and saying "Ball, rum." and showing them a dog and saying "Dog, nantang". Ever since I started learning Na'vi, I thought "what harm would it do? after all, they'd speak both Na'vi and English."

Then again, I'd get calls from the teacher: "Ma'am, your son is calling the other children ayvrrtep again."
"Oh, don't worry about it, just say plltxe ni'Inglisi rutxe and he'll stop."

But teaching them only Na'vi? That would be cruel, because they wouldn't be able to speak with other kids at preschool, and their social skills would lag, and they would be outcasts until they learned English. If i felt the need to speak with my child in Na'vi, they'd definitely be learning English too.

Then again, it would be cool because then we could have private mommy-child conversations in fluent Na'vi. And when Mommy yells in Na'vi, you'd better shut up and fly straight!!

hes actually right about this it would make our children outcasts faster then you can say "skxawng!" Na'vi and english is a better sulotion then just na'vi.

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Offline Rain

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Re: teaching children Na'vi?
« Reply #41 on: July 05, 2010, 04:36:04 pm »
Actually, I think it would be better to teach them English and Na'vi at the same time. It would be like showing them a ball and saying "Ball, rum." and showing them a dog and saying "Dog, nantang". Ever since I started learning Na'vi, I thought "what harm would it do? after all, they'd speak both Na'vi and English."

Then again, I'd get calls from the teacher: "Ma'am, your son is calling the other children ayvrrtep again."
"Oh, don't worry about it, just say plltxe ni'Inglisi rutxe and he'll stop."

But teaching them only Na'vi? That would be cruel, because they wouldn't be able to speak with other kids at preschool, and their social skills would lag, and they would be outcasts until they learned English. If i felt the need to speak with my child in Na'vi, they'd definitely be learning English too.

Then again, it would be cool because then we could have private mommy-child conversations in fluent Na'vi. And when Mommy yells in Na'vi, you'd better shut up and fly straight!!

hes actually right about this it would make our children outcasts faster then you can say "skxawng!" Na'vi and english is a better sulotion then just na'vi.

Yeah, i got picked on enough when I was in school. I wouldn't wish that on my kid.
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Offline 'Ì'awn Menari

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Re: teaching children Na'vi?
« Reply #42 on: July 05, 2010, 07:34:21 pm »
yeah, i think that's what a lot of ppl were saying, they teach both Na'vi and their native tongue.  only Na'vi could be used more for home and the other for social places like school etc.
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Offline Kekerusey

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Re: teaching children Na'vi?
« Reply #43 on: July 06, 2010, 03:37:58 am »
yeah, i think that's what a lot of ppl were saying, they teach both Na'vi and their native tongue.  only Na'vi could be used more for home and the other for social places like school etc.

And I'm afraid I think that's just stupid ... the only person you are truly doing it for is YOU and no one else. Let them make their own choice when they get old enough to do so but until then PLEASE stop trying to delude yourselves that you are somehow "benefiting" the kids by giving them "skills" everyone else will just laugh at them for.

Responsible parenting is about giving your kids the skills they NEED, skills that are genuinely useful, protecting them until they are old enough to stand (metaphorically) on their own feet ... it is not about inflating your own [expletive deleted] ego's!

It's bad enough religious people filling children's head with utter nonsense without doing in the names of planets & people that are not even real!

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Re: teaching children Na'vi?
« Reply #44 on: July 06, 2010, 02:36:44 pm »
And I'm afraid I think that's just stupid ... the only person you are truly doing it for is YOU and no one else. Let them make their own choice when they get old enough to do so but until then PLEASE stop trying to delude yourselves that you are somehow "benefiting" the kids by giving them "skills" everyone else will just laugh at them for.

Responsible parenting is about giving your kids the skills they NEED, skills that are genuinely useful, protecting them until they are old enough to stand (metaphorically) on their own feet ... it is not about inflating your own [expletive deleted] ego's!

It's bad enough religious people filling children's head with utter nonsense without doing in the names of planets & people that are not even real!

Keke
This is all true, let the Na'vi language rise among us, not force it upon someone else. The last thing a child need is another thing to get picked on for.

As for the discussion above, I have also been picked on as a child, due to being different. But things got better after I moved to a bigger school in 10th grade.

Offline Roiki

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Re: teaching children Na'vi?
« Reply #45 on: July 06, 2010, 03:02:23 pm »
It's bad enough religious people filling children's head with utter nonsense without doing in the names of planets & people that are not even real!

And what's so wrong in teaching kids about religion? Not everyone takes it literally. There is plenty of good stories that help define right from wrong and teach proper morals. If you try to steer clear from it(and essentially go the atheist way) you're going to have a hard time teaching them to your kids on your own. And those summer camps are a great way for kids to meet other people and socialize outside of their comfort zone. And i see religions as something they need and should learn, ignorance brings hate after all.

But this again is a matter of perspective and the ways you were brought up.

It's true that kids can be cruel, but they tend to use the more visible differences, language isn't that high on that list. Or maybe it's just different in bilingual countries but here no one was bullied because of the languages they spoke. It's more about looks, clothes and what you have than how you speak.

Should you teach it then? maybe not. Of course mother tongue comes first and maybe the biggest minority language should be second, and that's plenty to learn. Maybe you can start at a later age when he/she can better understand things and can make up his/her own mind. Ultimately it's up to the parent. I already have two languages to teach my potential kids(3 or 4 if living abroad) so that's not going to be on my list what to teach to a kid.

And everyone gets bullied at some point, demonizing it you're only fueling the fire and by being overprotective you're depriving them of essential skills that kids need at later stages.
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Offline Duma Vadamee {Aungia Tsawkeyä}

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Re: teaching children Na'vi?
« Reply #46 on: July 06, 2010, 03:11:10 pm »
in a sence, this is true. we shouldn't force Na'vi on the toddlers, but introduse it. say it a few times, give deffinmitions to them, and then see if they like it. if not, then they dont. if they do...well, you know what to do as a teacher and parent.

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Offline Muzer

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Re: teaching children Na'vi?
« Reply #47 on: July 06, 2010, 03:15:44 pm »
It's bad enough religious people filling children's head with utter nonsense without doing in the names of planets & people that are not even real!

And what's so wrong in teaching kids about religion? Not everyone takes it literally. There is plenty of good stories that help define right from wrong and teach proper morals. If you try to steer clear from it(and essentially go the atheist way) you're going to have a hard time teaching them to your kids on your own. And those summer camps are a great way for kids to meet other people and socialize outside of their comfort zone. And i see religions as something they need and should learn, ignorance brings hate after all.

But this again is a matter of perspective and the ways you were brought up.

It's true that kids can be cruel, but they tend to use the more visible differences, language isn't that high on that list. Or maybe it's just different in bilingual countries but here no one was bullied because of the languages they spoke. It's more about looks, clothes and what you have than how you speak.

Should you teach it then? maybe not. Of course mother tongue comes first and maybe the biggest minority language should be second, and that's plenty to learn. Maybe you can start at a later age when he/she can better understand things and can make up his/her own mind. Ultimately it's up to the parent. I already have two languages to teach my potential kids(3 or 4 if living abroad) so that's not going to be on my list what to teach to a kid.

And everyone gets bullied at some point, demonizing it you're only fueling the fire and by being overprotective you're depriving them of essential skills that kids need at later stages.

Not really. Morals are much more hard-coded than people think. As is the tendency for small children to be gullible, for very good reasons (which is why children indoctrinated from a young age tend to stay with that religion). For more information on these aspects and others, as well as reasons against indoctrination, see chapters 5, 6, 7, 8 and 9 of Richard Dawkins' book The God Delusion - he puts it much better than I'll ever be able to.
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Offline 'Ì'awn Menari

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Re: teaching children Na'vi?
« Reply #48 on: July 06, 2010, 03:54:35 pm »
in a sence, this is true. we shouldn't force Na'vi on the toddlers, but introduse it. say it a few times, give deffinmitions to them, and then see if they like it. if not, then they dont. if they do...well, you know what to do as a teacher and parent.

Blessed be!
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and before I forget...
Eywa ngahu! =D

Offline Duma Vadamee {Aungia Tsawkeyä}

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Re: teaching children Na'vi?
« Reply #49 on: July 06, 2010, 04:09:03 pm »
is that a complement?  :P

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Offline 'Ì'awn Menari

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Re: teaching children Na'vi?
« Reply #50 on: July 06, 2010, 04:10:31 pm »
trust me if it's an insult coming from me you'd be able to tell  :P.  think of it as an amen XD
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Offline Rain

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Re: teaching children Na'vi?
« Reply #51 on: July 06, 2010, 11:55:40 pm »
It's gonna be like that anyways. You can teach it, but if they never get the opportunity to use it outside of the family, and if they get picked on for it, they might begin to resent the teaching of Na'vi. Tread carefully.
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Offline Swok Txon

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Re: teaching children Na'vi?
« Reply #52 on: July 07, 2010, 12:44:47 am »
That's pretty flipping cool

maybe the child's popularity in later life might be in question but that sounds awesome

I'm so teaching my kids French, Na'vi and of course english :-P

Offline Nì'awtua Eyktan

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Re: teaching children Na'vi?
« Reply #53 on: July 07, 2010, 03:44:11 am »
The kid that was being taught klingon learned english as well, since his mother spoke to him in english.
And when he noticed that his father understood english and that no one else spoke it, he stopped using it.
So no, I don't think it was cruel.

Offline Kekerusey

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Re: teaching children Na'vi?
« Reply #54 on: July 07, 2010, 04:40:17 am »
And what's so wrong in teaching kids about religion?

I've no wish to deal with your entire argument as I ma a [VERY] militant atheist with a significant (though slightly cobwebby at the mo) web-presence in that arena and I can see it all getting out of hand which would be inappropriate for this forum.

But to answer that specific point, I did not say I didn't believe we should teach children about religion, I said, "It's bad enough religious people filling children's head with utter nonsense ...". IOW I believe it is wrong to teach children religion by which I mean brain-washing them into a specific religious belief as I was as a child. I consider it to be psychological child abuse ... well-intentioned I grant you but still so.

I believe children should be taught what we understand and not fairy tales, particularly in schools (I believe absolutely in a purely secular education) ... nothing about that says don't teach them about religions, we absolutely should teach the history of various religions, but at no point should a teacher promote a specific religious POV (not even atheism) because I believe education should be about opening minds to possibilities not closing them by telling them a particular god is real and that their word is some kind of law.

Keke
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Offline Muzer

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Re: teaching children Na'vi?
« Reply #55 on: July 07, 2010, 04:56:03 am »
As an example, children are often taught about Ancient Egyptian Gods in schools, so that rich culture never gets lost - but they are not expected to believe in it, and it is not implied or stated that it is true. Why should religions equally far-fetched that people do believe in be treated differently? Religions should be given as hypotheses, along with the common scientific theory to explain the same thing, and children allowed to decide which they believe in based on the evidence.
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Offline Kekerusey

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Re: teaching children Na'vi?
« Reply #56 on: July 07, 2010, 05:08:53 am »
The kid that was being taught klingon learned english as well, since his mother spoke to him in english.
And when he noticed that his father understood english and that no one else spoke it, he stopped using it.
So no, I don't think it was cruel.

That's more a compliment to its mother and the kids intelligence ... it could have gone far worse than that. That's not really much different form saying there's some guy who smoked all his life and is now 99 and implying it is somehow evidence against the general accepted notion that smoking is bad for us.

I believe teaching young children, children who are gullible and built to trust parental figures, things that server no real benefit outside of parental ego inflation and will likely isolate them from their peers is wrong ... no one has yet given a reasoned argument as to why I should think otherwise.

Keke
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Offline Kekerusey

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Re: teaching children Na'vi?
« Reply #57 on: July 07, 2010, 05:16:42 am »
As an example, children are often taught about Ancient Egyptian Gods in schools, so that rich culture never gets lost - but they are not expected to believe in it, and it is not implied or stated that it is true. Why should religions equally far-fetched that people do believe in be treated differently?

Religions should be given as hypotheses, along with the common scientific theory to explain the same thing, and children allowed to decide which they believe in based on the evidence

I hope I misunderstood you there? Religious claims, whilst I accept they are in many ways attempts to explain the universe we see around us, are not theories or hypotheses in the scientific sense and it isn't a choice children should be making whether they believe science is correct (over religious claims) or not  ... to do that puts fairy tales on an equal footing with science and to date there is not a single essential religious claim that has validatable evidential support. 

Keke
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Offline Muzer

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Re: teaching children Na'vi?
« Reply #58 on: July 07, 2010, 05:25:39 am »
Well, it depends how young we're talking here. Once they know all the evidence in favour of the scientific views and the lack of evidence for religions, and provided they haven't been indoctrinated, they would have to be a skxawng not to go for scientific views.

Think about it the other way - if they are completely shielded from religions, when someone does tell them about a religion, they won't know any of the arguments against it and are much more likely to succumb.
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Offline Kekerusey

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Re: teaching children Na'vi?
« Reply #59 on: July 07, 2010, 05:49:07 am »
Well, it depends how young we're talking here. Once they know all the evidence in favour of the scientific views and the lack of evidence for religions, and provided they haven't been indoctrinated, they would have to be a skxawng not to go for scientific views.

I absolutely disagree ... I was THAT child, I was brought up as a Roman Catholic (the most fundamentalist of the mainstream religions IMO) and until the age of maybe 15 I believed the bible was true. Thing is, I'm not specifically any smarter now than I was then, simply wiser ... I don't think it's a matter of intelligence, religious people aren't dumb, just wrong about this particular thing and as Michael Shermer says, "Intelligent people defend stupid ideas intelligently" .

So, granted, I also believed science was right (a weird kind of dualism that I just accepted) and it was only later when I began to think more rationally on the subject that I realised that id one was correct the other could not be. The worst aspect of it however was that for many years (quite apart from the hell/burning nightmares I used to get for a long time after) I was willing to believe all sorts of crap (like Von Daniken's gods as astronauts and crap like that) ... it took a lot of effort to shake that!

Think about it the other way - if they are completely shielded from religions, when someone does tell them about a religion, they won't know any of the arguments against it and are much more likely to succumb.

I think a lesson on scientific methodology and on why it supports our current understanding of the universe and not those advanced by religions is a good thing but I do not support the teaching of religions on a par with science (certainly not in science lessons) ... I don't see how the difference can be dealt with any other way, science education time is not unlimited and if teacher's had to deal with every religious claim there would be no time left to teach science (some fundy cults would like that).

See how RE is taught these days in school (more of a philosophy lesson) I suppose that would the place to go into detail about why religions are merely beliefs and science is based on fact.

Keke
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