Author Topic: teaching children Na'vi?  (Read 9813 times)

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Offline Kekerusey

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Re: teaching children Na'vi?
« Reply #80 on: July 08, 2010, 04:26:13 am »
^So it is morally wrong to babtize a child? What if it all existed, It has not been proved, but I have not read anything that disproves religion either. In many countires today, there's a freedom of religion, which is also a freedom to have a religion too...

What if god exists? What if Rah exists? What if Zeus exists? What if Odin exists? What if Quetzalcoatl exists? What if Hera exists? What if? What if? What if?

Let us teach children what we understand and can support not mythical garbage!

Is it wrong to baptise a child? IMO, as a child who had absolutely ZERO choice in that and (even now) is regarded by the Catholic Church as a member of their flock despite repeated letters to the Archbishop of my diocese of birth to have me removed/struck off/ex-communicated or whatever it is rat-catchers like to do to heathens like me, yes ... it is morally wrong.

But let's end this discussion before this thread ends up as a "the atheists vs the religious" thread.

If someone wants to do that then I'm fine with it ... if the discussion carries on here I'm fine with that too. Don't forget that many of the points I am raising STILL apply to the stupidity of the idea of teaching fictional languages of fictional aliens to children (to their detriment) claimed as a good thing (in reality self-ego inflation).

BTW, it's probably worth pointing out that Muzer seems to be non-religious (same side as me) so we're actually nitpicking about how to deal with the issue rather than it being atheism vs. religion.

Keke
« Last Edit: July 08, 2010, 04:30:30 am by Kekerusey »
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Offline Muzer

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Re: teaching children Na'vi?
« Reply #81 on: July 08, 2010, 07:43:54 am »
I do agree that not mentioning religion at all would be better than what happens now in some schools, but I still think the arguments against it should be given to children at SOME point. And yes, baptising children too young to make their own decision IS wrong. It sort of puts an unfair mental, and sometimes actual, obligation on the child to continue with the religion even if they do not believe.

I do agree to some extent to the celestial teapot argument (ie it should be the job of theists to prove the existence of God rather than atheists to disprove it), but I think that because the beliefs are so commonly held, something still has to be done to protect against indoctrination, and in my mind education would be the best way.
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[21:42:59] <@Muzer> now they are just expensive

Offline Tsufätu Ayioangä

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Re: teaching children Na'vi?
« Reply #82 on: July 08, 2010, 01:04:08 pm »
Woa Woa Woa!  (Tryin' to keep the peace here) I believe this topic was meant for a way to teach Children Na'vi, not weather or not a god is real and who it is...

Offline 'Ì'awn Menari

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Re: teaching children Na'vi?
« Reply #83 on: July 08, 2010, 01:08:27 pm »
Woa Woa Woa!  (Tryin' to keep the peace here) I believe this topic was meant for a way to teach Children Na'vi, not weather or not a god is real and who it is...

thank you another person who's trying to keep the peace...
Lord and Lady Bless )O(
and before I forget...
Eywa ngahu! =D

Offline Duma Vadamee {Aungia Tsawkeyä}

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Re: teaching children Na'vi?
« Reply #84 on: July 08, 2010, 01:09:20 pm »
Woa Woa Woa!  (Tryin' to keep the peace here) I believe this topic was meant for a way to teach Children Na'vi, not weather or not a god is real and who it is...

thank you another person who's trying to keep the peace...

yep back on topic now kiddies. :D

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Offline Tsufätu Ayioangä

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Re: teaching children Na'vi?
« Reply #85 on: July 08, 2010, 01:14:38 pm »
Woa Woa Woa!  (Tryin' to keep the peace here) I believe this topic was meant for a way to teach Children Na'vi, not weather or not a god is real and who it is...

thank you another person who's trying to keep the peace...

NP :D  I have plenty of issues/ideas with this particular topic as well but this is not the place...




So... Na'vi and children :D

Any one been (semi) successful in teaching a young one Na'vi?  What's it like?  I know under a certain age people retain language info better.

Offline Rain

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Re: teaching children Na'vi?
« Reply #86 on: July 08, 2010, 02:24:38 pm »
They learn fast, yes, but their attention spans are frustratingly short (thanks a lot, stupid TV!!). My ten year old sister learns fast and remembers well, but she has no interest in grammar and it's difficult to make her pay attention. It seems that kids want to learn at their own pace, according to their interest, and only when they care about learning it.

Which is interesting, because I may or may not have ADD (undiagnosed), and supposedly I'm not supposed to be able to pay attention, and yet AVATAR and the Na'vi language has persistently held my interest for over seven months. Tìtxen sivi....
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Offline 'Ì'awn Menari

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Re: teaching children Na'vi?
« Reply #87 on: July 08, 2010, 02:36:05 pm »
i don't have any kids of my own yet (i still want 5...) anyways and i'm not teaching my little sisters na'vi.  one of them already thinks i'm insane to begin with, and i don't want my parents coming down on me...i'll teach my kids when i have them and if they say they don't want to learn i stop teaching them plain and simple.  when they're younger primary language, English, secondary, japanese and a little Na'vi.  if they want to continue learning when they're older then hey i'll be happy to teach.  (japanese or Na'vi don't really matter either way cause it's starting out it's basic vocab).  Japanese can be used later on in life (if they need it), and na'vi is something fun to learn.  ^_^.
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Offline Kekerusey

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Re: teaching children Na'vi?
« Reply #88 on: July 08, 2010, 02:54:54 pm »
Woa Woa Woa!  (Tryin' to keep the peace here) I believe this topic was meant for a way to teach Children Na'vi, not weather or not a god is real and who it is...

And if you read what we were saying neither of us was claiming that a god was real so there wasn't actually an argument, simply a disagreement over method.

But back on topic ... I will go as far as saying that ANY of you that believe that isolating your children from their peers (and that is EXACTLY what you will do in society where even having the wrong [expletive deleted] brand of shoes will do) by "teaching" them Na'vi just to satisfy your own petty ego's are small-minded, cruel and barbarous. In doing so you will be doing NOTHING but practising psychological child abuse on your own children (and that is why I compared it with religion in the first instance because the teaching of such beliefs to young, vulnerable children is ALSO psychological child abuse regardless of the fact that parents and peers believe otherwise).

Sometimes I have faith in humans beings ... at times like this I emphatically DO NOT!

Keke
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Offline Muzer

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Re: teaching children Na'vi?
« Reply #89 on: July 08, 2010, 03:04:13 pm »
This is starting to remind me of this Simpsons quote:

"Kids are great Apu! You can teach them to hate the things you hate, and they practically raise themselves with the internet and all!"
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[21:42:59] <@Muzer> now they are just expensive

Offline Rain

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Re: teaching children Na'vi?
« Reply #90 on: July 08, 2010, 03:09:50 pm »
But back on topic ... I will go as far as saying that ANY of you that believe that isolating your children from their peers (and that is EXACTLY what you will do in society where even having the wrong [expletive deleted] brand of shoes will do) by "teaching" them Na'vi just to satisfy your own petty ego's are small-minded, cruel and barbarous. In doing so you will be doing NOTHING but practising psychological child abuse on your own children (and that is why I compared it with religion in the first instance because the teaching of such beliefs to young, vulnerable children is ALSO psychological child abuse regardless of the fact that parents and peers believe otherwise).

On a slightly calmer level, I agree. But, I can only hope that those who will teach their kids, regardless of whether the LN community at large thinks it's appropriate or not, will do so keeping in mind that English is what the outside world will be speaking to their kids once they begin school.

Kar Nìkllfro'
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Offline 'Ì'awn Menari

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Re: teaching children Na'vi?
« Reply #91 on: July 08, 2010, 03:57:15 pm »
But back on topic ... I will go as far as saying that ANY of you that believe that isolating your children from their peers (and that is EXACTLY what you will do in society where even having the wrong [expletive deleted] brand of shoes will do) by "teaching" them Na'vi just to satisfy your own petty ego's are small-minded, cruel and barbarous. In doing so you will be doing NOTHING but practising psychological child abuse on your own children (and that is why I compared it with religion in the first instance because the teaching of such beliefs to young, vulnerable children is ALSO psychological child abuse regardless of the fact that parents and peers believe otherwise).

On a slightly calmer level, I agree. But, I can only hope that those who will teach their kids, regardless of whether the LN community at large thinks it's appropriate or not, will do so keeping in mind that English is what the outside world will be speaking to their kids once they begin school.

Kar Nìkllfro'

i agree
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Offline Tsufätu Ayioangä

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Re: teaching children Na'vi?
« Reply #92 on: July 08, 2010, 04:51:57 pm »
Woa Woa Woa!  (Tryin' to keep the peace here) I believe this topic was meant for a way to teach Children Na'vi, not weather or not a god is real and who it is...

And if you read what we were saying neither of us was claiming that a god was real so there wasn't actually an argument, simply a disagreement over method.

But back on topic ... I will go as far as saying that ANY of you that believe that isolating your children from their peers (and that is EXACTLY what you will do in society where even having the wrong [expletive deleted] brand of shoes will do) by "teaching" them Na'vi just to satisfy your own petty ego's are small-minded, cruel and barbarous. In doing so you will be doing NOTHING but practising psychological child abuse on your own children (and that is why I compared it with religion in the first instance because the teaching of such beliefs to young, vulnerable children is ALSO psychological child abuse regardless of the fact that parents and peers believe otherwise).

Sometimes I have faith in humans beings ... at times like this I emphatically DO NOT!

Keke

No body's saying the child would need to speak it at school or anywhere else, Keke, just that it would be interesting to see how other minds react to knew knowledge.  I'm sure if any of these kids said, "Hey, teacher-person, I don't want to do this anymore" they would stop.  Nobody is forcing it on them.  Your taking it a little off the deep end there hun.  It isn't that big of a deal.

And I know there wasn't an actual argument.  Regardless, it was off topic.

Offline Lorey

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Re: teaching children Na'vi?
« Reply #93 on: July 08, 2010, 05:17:54 pm »
But back on topic ... I will go as far as saying that ANY of you that believe that isolating your children from their peers (and that is EXACTLY what you will do in society where even having the wrong [expletive deleted] brand of shoes will do) by "teaching" them Na'vi just to satisfy your own petty ego's are small-minded, cruel and barbarous. In doing so you will be doing NOTHING but practising psychological child abuse on your own children (and that is why I compared it with religion in the first instance because the teaching of such beliefs to young, vulnerable children is ALSO psychological child abuse regardless of the fact that parents and peers believe otherwise).

Sometimes I have faith in humans beings ... at times like this I emphatically DO NOT!

Keke

I think when people say they want to teach their children Na'vi, it'd be more of phrases and things around the house. I'd believe that they'd of course teach them English because if they want to go to school, they'd need to know it and if they want any sort of future, they'd need it. I'm sure the parent wouldn't be stupid enough to do that to their child. It wouldn't be practical at all. You need English (or whatever native language your speak) to interact with others, which humans strive for. We're social beings.

Lots of people teach their children things that they don't need to know, but they do it anyways because they have a passion for it. What if you are listening to your music with your child around? They will recognize and pick it up when it's playing. They'll sing along or dance to it. But it's not beneficial that the child need to listen to it, so would that be bad too? Just because they learn something that isn't necessary, doesn't mean they can't learn it.

In school, especially with younger children, differences aren't a problem. From what I've encountered when I was growing up and what my niece, who is 7 tells me, she has no problems nor witnesses any. As you get older, say middle and high school, yes, differences are what isolate you into your stereotype or whatever, but by then,they would know not to speak Na'vi in front of others because either their parents told them it's at home only or they've learned from reactions of others that they shouldn't speak it. Plus they wouldn't speak it because no one else would know it, most likely.

Offline 'Ì'awn Menari

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Re: teaching children Na'vi?
« Reply #94 on: July 08, 2010, 05:37:56 pm »

I think when... know it, most likely.

yeah it's like a fun thing to do with the family.  granted you'll have to wait until they're fluent enough in their native tongue before you teach them it, so that way it doesn’t confuse them and even then start out small and if they say i don't want to learn this anymore than stop.  and you introduce it to them first, whether they hear you speak it (cause i tell you what i have a habit of randomly speaking in another language...at least parts that i know to begin with...) so either way they’ll probably be picking up on parts of it. 

Though I do have to agree with Rain when she said to teach responsibly.  There probably are parents who will teach them to appease their ego.  However I do not see a problem with teaching them if they are interested in learning, or even introducing it to them.  To go back on the religion example for a moment, it’s similar to that.  You can introduce a child to a religion when they’re younger, and you can take two paths.  1) is the more common and that’s forcing the child into that religion 2) another is teaching the child about other religions so that way when they’re older they can make their own choices.  Now leaving that topic. 

And who knows, maybe the child (if they choose to learn Na’vi) may find a use for it later in life.  I don’t know what use that may be, or if that will ever happen.  We learn algebra in school.  But other than using it in college, or in a profession that actually uses that Sh** where are we going to use algebra unless we’re helping our young with their homework?  When the hell am I ever going to use Chemistry?

There are times I lose faith in humanity too…but not over something like this.  There are much worse things to lose faith in humanity.  Now if the parents were forcing it down their throat then yeah I can see why, however I have a feeling no one here is planning on doing that.  Though I can’t speak for everyone here…I know for a fact I’m not. 
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Offline Kekerusey

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Re: teaching children Na'vi?
« Reply #95 on: July 09, 2010, 11:47:31 am »
Your taking it a little off the deep end there hun.  It isn't that big of a deal.

And I know there wasn't an actual argument.  Regardless, it was off topic.

I don't think I am and no I don't think it was!

A parents responsibility is to give children tools (languages and so on) that would be of actual use to them, moreover those "tools" should not be those things that would make them the class freak ... I know what that's like, I know it is easy enough to be the outcast WITHOUT the assistant of stupidly idealistic & egotistical parents adding their input.

At least religious parents teach their children garbage in the misunderstanding that it is a good thing ... in many ways you lot are worse, you're not even doing it for a belief, you seem to be wanting to do it because it would be "fun"!
 
I'm sorry but IMO parenting is a responsibility & a privilege and children are not property!

Keke
« Last Edit: July 09, 2010, 11:53:08 am by Kekerusey »
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Offline Tsufätu Ayioangä

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Re: teaching children Na'vi?
« Reply #96 on: July 09, 2010, 01:15:13 pm »
Your taking it a little off the deep end there hun.  It isn't that big of a deal.

And I know there wasn't an actual argument.  Regardless, it was off topic.

I don't think I am and no I don't think it was!

A parents responsibility is to give children tools (languages and so on) that would be of actual use to them, moreover those "tools" should not be those things that would make them the class freak ... I know what that's like, I know it is easy enough to be the outcast WITHOUT the assistant of stupidly idealistic & egotistical parents adding their input.

At least religious parents teach their children garbage in the misunderstanding that it is a good thing ... in many ways you lot are worse, you're not even doing it for a belief, you seem to be wanting to do it because it would be "fun"!
 
I'm sorry but IMO parenting is a responsibility & a privilege and children are not property!

Keke

I know what it's like being a freak to but if you believe this so much, and I do not doubt that you do, seeing how hard (and well) you are arguing this topic please tell me, why are you learning Na'vi?  Isn't that gonna make you a freak?

Offline Kekerusey

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Re: teaching children Na'vi?
« Reply #97 on: July 10, 2010, 02:10:35 am »
I know what it's like being a freak to but if you believe this so much, and I do not doubt that you do, seeing how hard (and well) you are arguing this topic please tell me, why are you learning Na'vi?  Isn't that gonna make you a freak?

In context of this conversation I'm an adult ... I do what I want, when I want and as long as my actions don't directly harm others I'm fine.

FWIW I genuinely like to [try to be] be different ... my kids also seem quite different (my oldest, 21, has chosen to learn Na'vi but my youngest thinks it the daftest thing she ever heard of) but that's the point! I'm an adult, my geeky decisions, whilst they will always affect others to some degree, by and large affect mainly me ... that is my right! But that right DOES NOT extend to treating my kids as toys, I mean they are amusing and I often tease them and say they are toys but the truth is they are not, they're small humans (granted one is now 6' 3") who talk back, they talk back because they are smart and my wife and I have done our damndest to bring up two young, smart, self-motivated and confidant women and for the most part we seem to have succeeded.

I learn Na'vi because I want to, my 21 year old learns Na'vi because she wants to, my 15 year old doesn't because she doesn't want to and my wife doesn't want to hear anything about Avatar ... all of us made free and independent decisions.

Interestingly I asked my 15 year old what would happen if a girl at school turned up speaking Na'vi ... she said there was nothing inherently wrong with speaking it (it's just a choice with no inherent right or wrong but as she talked it was clear she thought choices had consequences), she said the girl's peers wouldn't understand and she would be ostracised which is what I have been trying to tell you people all along.

So, those people who think it's cute to teach youngsters who are too young are wrong, they are more than wrong, they are being cruel and they are doing so to satisfy their own needs and no one else's.

Keke
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Offline Roiki

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Re: teaching children Na'vi?
« Reply #98 on: July 10, 2010, 07:37:46 pm »
But are we teaching it as a hobby or as something more serious? the whole point of a hobby is to bring joy and fulfillment to the one doing it, it has no point other than that.

If you're going to teach your kid only the basic stuff, you'd need to teach them how to fight(because everyone gets in a fight), how to manipulate others(because that's the way our society works) and train them to be physically fit. None of these doesn't sound something i'd like to teach to any kid.
If the kid enjoys learning something(language, sewing or whatever) then where's the harm? If you teach your kid tennis and it happens to like it, is it a bad thing because it's unusual and most likely won't sit well with other pre-teens?

Young kids can't make decisions for themselves, so you as their guardian has to do it for them, a 5-year old can't decide anything big about himself other than what ice cream he wants. You need to push them in a direction, and that is usually defined by the direction you have(since you know no other way). As the kid grows older it may not like it and wants to change it. It's not very wise to deny them anything(unless it's physically hazardous to them) that they might like, no matter how ridiculous it might sound like. It's in small hobby groups where you find your true peers, in school there's a whole bunch of people with different backgrounds and thoughts, you can't please them all and you shouldn't even try.

Saying that it's a fact that if you teach your children na'vi, they get bullied and become separated from their peers based solely on assumptions sounds somewhat overprotective to me. People are different and based on your narrow sample size and field of view(pardon the expression), i wouldn't judge anything so strongly. There are different cultures and ways everywhere with different views on everything. It's true it can lead to it, but then again so can infinite number of other things. I've built model planes since i was 5 and i never got bullied because of it and it isn't very popular hobby amongst kids.

What any parent should want is a happy childhood for their kids, what they do to make it happen shouldn't be that big of a concern if they truly enjoy it.
Slow is smooth, smooth is fast.

Offline Kekerusey

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Re: teaching children Na'vi?
« Reply #99 on: July 11, 2010, 07:26:51 am »
Young kids can't make decisions for themselves, so you as their guardian has to do it for them

And that is EXACTLY the point I am making ... a RESPONSIBLE parent will give them tools that are genuinely useful and will not act to their detriment. I am absolutely sure that as a parent I have made some bad decisions but I can assure you I never once made a decision about my children that I knew would make their life worse ... my wife & I always thought it through as best we could to try and figure what the advantages and disadvantages would be. What some of these idiots are proposing violates parental responsibility, abuses the trust children have in their guardians. It is wrong, criminally wrong IMO, on every level ... people who plan to do such things to vulnerable children, children who trust us to make the very best decisions in their interest, should have their "right" to be parents stripped from them!

Keke
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