"This... this is our land!"

Started by MIPP, March 09, 2011, 02:11:23 PM

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MIPP

Hi!

Today I watched AVATAR again, and I noticed something:

after Dr. Grace "died", Jake speaks to the whole Omaticaya people and Tsu'tey translates it. At the end, Jake says:

"And this..." - pause.

Tsu'tey translates the sentence: "Ulte fìtseng..."

And Jake goes on: "This is our land!".

So, the problem is:
Quote"And this..." - pause.

Tsu'tey translates the sentence: "Ulte fìtseng..."

If Jake says "this", why the hell does Tsu'tey translate it as "Fìtseng"? I mean, it would be logic if Tsu'tey knew what Jake was about to say. But I don't think he has the ability to guess what one is going to say.
???
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I think that was just a small mistake that they did not notice.
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Quote from: MIPP on March 09, 2011, 02:11:23 PM

If Jake says "this", why the hell does Tsu'tey translate it as "Fìtseng"? I mean, it would be logic if Tsu'tey knew what Jake was about to say. But I don't think he has the ability to guess what one is going to say.
???


Maybe he sort of does know what he's going to say?  You know, sometimes a riveting speech and everyone starts thinking on the same wavelength?  Maybe it's because Na'vi can do that (but I'm no expert so don't take my word for it)?  Or maybe he thought Jake was going to say something else and he didn't.  Oops, translation error; it happens.

Or maybe there's some deep, meaningful grammar rule we're both missing.

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Nyx

This has been bugging me too for quite a while. I told myself that maybe Tsu'tey understood that the whole "they can't take what they want" is about Pandora and that "this" is about the same thing, so he went with fìtsenge.

I think it'd be easier for a Na'vi to quickly decide which "this" to use since they're used to there being more than one "this". I think it's harder for people who are used to using the same word in all situations.

But yeah, would've been awkward if Jake suddenly decided to take it in a different direction, haha!

ExLibrisMortis

It's a simple cinematography error. The speech was written out and translated prior to the filming and both actors memorized their lines. Especially with the way Na'vi is written, in it's sentence structure, it was just actors reciting their line and it went on. So what may have been Tsu'tey going psychic future prediction mode on Jake, it was really a linear folly committed by the actors.

Nyx

Quote from: ExLibrisMortis on March 09, 2011, 03:10:13 PM
It's a simple cinematography error. The speech was written out and translated prior to the filming and both actors memorized their lines. Especially with the way Na'vi is written, in it's sentence structure, it was just actors reciting their line and it went on. So what may have been Tsu'tey going psychic future prediction mode on Jake, it was really a linear folly committed by the actors.
Yes, but if you disregard that. I mean, if you stay in-universe there was no script, and how could he have known then?

Le'eylan

#6
Paul wrote the translation to that speech many times, but it just ended up with being too long,
and therefore making the scene long. So they tried many different speeches until they ended up with
the one featured in the movie.

Oh, and everyone knows that Tsu'tey is a psychic.
I even think we told Frommer that conclusion before he told us about how he had to rewrite the speech.  ::)

Another theory is that Tsu'tey and Jake had a little pep talk behind the tree right before
Jake started speaking, just to check they were on the same note. :P
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Kamean

#7
This is likely an error. But I'm much nicer to think that Tsu'tey caught the inner meaning of Jake's speech. :) He kame and translate correctly. ;)
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Txonä Unil Stä'nìyu Rolyusì

Quote from: Nyx on March 09, 2011, 02:42:59 PM
This has been bugging me too for quite a while. I told myself that maybe Tsu'tey understood that the whole "they can't take what they want" is about Pandora and that "this" is about the same thing, so he went with fìtsenge.

I think it'd be easier for a Na'vi to quickly decide which "this" to use since they're used to there being more than one "this".

This!

Na'vi is very context oriented. I'm sure Tsu'tey understood from "they can take whatever they want" that Jake was referring to Pandora.

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Quote from: Le'eylan on March 09, 2011, 03:49:23 PM
Paul wrote the translation to that speech many times, but it just ended up with being too long,
and therefore making the scene long. So they tried many different speeches until they ended up with
the one featured in the movie.

Seems like half the theory, although fko would wonder why the full speech wasn't used and spoken a little quicker....

For that line (and probably a few others), I too, took it to be an informal version of Na'vi, where a portion of the language is omitted and implied from context.

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ExLibrisMortis

Quote from: Sxkxawng alu 'Oma Tirea on March 10, 2011, 02:51:02 AM
Quote from: Le'eylan on March 09, 2011, 03:49:23 PM
Paul wrote the translation to that speech many times, but it just ended up with being too long,
and therefore making the scene long. So they tried many different speeches until they ended up with
the one featured in the movie.

Seems like half the theory, although fko would wonder why the full speech wasn't used and spoken a little quicker....

For that line (and probably a few others), I too, took it to be an informal version of Na'vi, where a portion of the language is omitted and implied from context.



Which is how most languages are anyways. No one, if anyone, actually speaks the formal version of their language. Maybe in professional/teaching settings, but that's about it.


Quote from: Nyx on March 09, 2011, 03:13:15 PM
Quote from: ExLibrisMortis on March 09, 2011, 03:10:13 PM
It's a simple cinematography error. The speech was written out and translated prior to the filming and both actors memorized their lines. Especially with the way Na'vi is written, in it's sentence structure, it was just actors reciting their line and it went on. So what may have been Tsu'tey going psychic future prediction mode on Jake, it was really a linear folly committed by the actors.
Yes, but if you disregard that. I mean, if you stay in-universe there was no script, and how could he have known then?

Yeah, well I can't because I see Avatar as a film and can recognize that if it actually existed, it probably would not have happened that way.

Le'eylan

Quote from: Sxkxawng alu 'Oma Tirea on March 10, 2011, 02:51:02 AM
Quote from: Le'eylan on March 09, 2011, 03:49:23 PM
Paul wrote the translation to that speech many times, but it just ended up with being too long,
and therefore making the scene long. So they tried many different speeches until they ended up with
the one featured in the movie.
Seems like half the theory, although fko would wonder why the full speech wasn't used and spoken a little quicker....
What do you mean?  ???
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Toruk Makto

#12
That's not a theory, it's the literal truth. Occasionally the merits of the language had to take a back seat to the needs of the cinematography.

Markì

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ExLibrisMortis

Quote from: Markì on March 10, 2011, 11:06:48 AM
That's not a theory, it's the literal truth. Occasionally the merits of the language had to take a back seat to the needs of the cinematography.

Markì


Just like the bad pronunciation of certain actors. It's documented that Frommer, or that other lady, the speech coach, would rail the actors over and over for pronunciation and Cameron was just like "Ok, that's enough, we need to move on."

Human No More

Quote from: Kamean on March 09, 2011, 03:59:10 PM
This is likely an error. But I'm much nicer to think that Tsu'tey caught the inner meaning of Jake's speech. :) He kame and translate correctly. ;)
Mllte - it becomes kind of obvious where he is going with the speech :)
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Quote from: ExLibrisMortis on March 10, 2011, 07:12:56 PM
Quote from: Markì on March 10, 2011, 11:06:48 AM
That's not a theory, it's the literal truth. Occasionally the merits of the language had to take a back seat to the needs of the cinematography.

Markì


Just like the bad pronunciation of certain actors. It's documented that Frommer, or that other lady, the speech coach, would rail the actors over and over for pronunciation and Cameron was just like "Ok, that's enough, we need to move on."

Well hopefully the Na'vi of AVATAR 2 & 3 won't sound as bad, and we'll all be cringing if it does :P

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