Various Neytiri

Started by Blue Elf, December 28, 2013, 02:21:38 PM

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Blue Elf

The more times I see Avatar, the more Neytiri appears to be different in various scenes. Look at the picture, I took 7 samples.
Nr.1 - first time we see Neytiri, when she prepares to kill Jake's avatar. Face is nearly exactly round, eyes appears to be round too
Nr.2 - Neytiri saves Jake against viperwolves. Face look like square with triangle on place of chin, eyes standard (not round)
Nr. 3 and 4 - a little later - face looks more like heart, chin makes the face longer
Nr. 5 and 6 - Neytiri teach Jake to ride direhorse. on 5 face is like heart, on 6 (a short time later) is round, eyes very round too.
Nr. 7 - Neytiri show Seze to Jake - again heart-like face, standard eyes.
Also it appears to me that size of nose varies. I noticed also various faces of Norm - maybe it applies also to more characters, but on Neytiri I can see it best, even on first look, not searching for any differences.
What do you think about it. These changes are a little disruptive for me but it isn't problem.
Oe lu skxawng skxakep. Slä oe nerume mi.
"Oe tasyätxaw ulte koren za'u oehu" (Limonádový Joe)


Tìtstewan

#1
Ah, lights, shadows, position of the camera makes a different look as well as her different mimic of her face in different situations / emotion. :)

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archaic

#2
Expression and lighting affect the appearance of a face considerably, but angle affects it massively, trust me, faces change shape dramatically as the angle changes.






EDIT: that having been said ..... in image 4, Neytiri's cheekbones do appear deeper than in the other images.
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Rotobull cz

I think, that the angles of camera shots make. And light too. :)
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But remember her face is entirely computer generated, as are all Na'vi faces. It is just based on the facial gestures of the human 'actor-driver'.

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Taronyu Leleioae

Quote from: Blue Elf on December 28, 2013, 02:21:38 PM
The more times I see Avatar, the more Neytiri appears to be different in various scenes. Look at the picture, I took 7 samples.
Nr.1 - first time we see Neytiri, when she prepares to kill Jake's avatar. Face is nearly exactly round, eyes appears to be round too
Nr.2 - Neytiri saves Jake against viperwolves. Face look like square with triangle on place of chin, eyes standard (not round)
Nr. 3 and 4 - a little later - face looks more like heart, chin makes the face longer
Nr. 5 and 6 - Neytiri teach Jake to ride direhorse. on 5 face is like heart, on 6 (a short time later) is round, eyes very round too.
Nr. 7 - Neytiri show Seze to Jake - again heart-like face, standard eyes.
Also it appears to me that size of nose varies. I noticed also various faces of Norm - maybe it applies also to more characters, but on Neytiri I can see it best, even on first look, not searching for any differences.
What do you think about it. These changes are a little disruptive for me but it isn't problem.

(Swoka and I have been discussing this very thing...)
I completely agree.  There is an inconsistency through the film.  The easiest places... If you look at Neytiri when Jake first encounters her, as well as when she's introducing Jake to Seze high up on HomeTree, she has a very young and thin look.  Like a 20 year old.  Thinner face, more pronounced eyes.  More slender body.  Very thin/flat stomach front.
When you get to the point where she mates with Make, she's got a bit more of a longer neck and more developed face.
And when you get to the main battle where she fights Quarritch (as well as when she and Jake touch heads at the ToS), she has a more developed body.  Both more matured and more muscle.

Keeping in mind that the timeframe from Jake first meeting Neytiri to the last scenes are "supposed" to be a span of about 3 months.  IMO that as the film progressed, Neytiri has been given subtle changes in appearance to look 5-10 years older maturing...  It's a little... odd.

archaic

Neytiri's at that age, all Na'vi change like that at around that age. Aysmuke generally a little earlier than aysumkan.
Pasha, an Avatar story, my most recent fanfic, Avatar related, now complete.

The Dragon Affair my last fanfic, non Avatar related.

Blue Elf

I understand that light and various view angles together with different facial expression changes look, but some differences are too big than they can be caused just by these factors. I'd agree with Taronyu Leleioae, that there are some inconsistencies - maybe it depends also on person who processed scene...
Oe lu skxawng skxakep. Slä oe nerume mi.
"Oe tasyätxaw ulte koren za'u oehu" (Limonádový Joe)


archaic

#8
I was under the impression that Neytiri's physical form, skeleton, musculature, skin, hair, tail, eyes, tanhì, etc.
Were all defined before rendering began, then Zoë Saldana provided the performance that the predefined data set was rendered to perform.
I could be wrong.
Pasha, an Avatar story, my most recent fanfic, Avatar related, now complete.

The Dragon Affair my last fanfic, non Avatar related.

baritone

They could slightly change the model during dressing.
In the frame where Jake attack helicopter gunships, they make him larger canine tooths. Usually Na'vi have small canine teeth of the same size as the incisors, but here they have been strongly advocated.
As for Neytiri, at the some small frames in the scene with the viperwolves it does not have the rings in his ears.
I do not see in this practice something strange. Work is long, the artists take in the mind a new ideas. In my favorit soviet serial animated film "The Adventures of Captain Vrungel" they fully redrew the two heroes-gangsters between the two series.

Atokirina Sweriye

I'm very new here, but in my opinion both Neytiri, Tsu-tey and some others who are with them (for example, when finding an Ikran) are all young ppl coming of age. In the longer version of the movie there is a glimpse of Neytiri as a child, but in the cinema edit, she's only shown as a young woman. We see how they all add things to their decorations.

I get the impression it's not only Jake who don't have an Ikran, since Tsu'tey says "Jake will go _fist_ which inclines someone else is going after him. (I don't think Tsy'tey has an Ikran yet either, and it's obvious he's not pleased when Jake makes it and makes tsaheylu with the one that has choosen him.) For Neytiri teatching Jake is part of her education, she gets the test from her mother (if she is her physical mother, or not just called that by the tribe since she's a shaman?) to be ready to take over the responsibility one day. Anyway, the movie is not only about not invading someone else's land, it's also a movie about growing up, finding love etc.

Both in movies and books, some things has to be tightened up, compared to normal life

Blue Elf

Quote from: Atokirina Sweriye on April 20, 2014, 02:27:46 PM
I get the impression it's not only Jake who don't have an Ikran, since Tsu'tey says "Jake will go _fist_ which inclines someone else is going after him. (I don't think Tsy'tey has an Ikran yet either, and it's obvious he's not pleased when Jake makes it and makes tsaheylu with the one that has choosen him.)
Yes, there were other young hunters who need to find their ikrans. But I don't believe Tsu'tey didn't have his own ikran at that time. I think he worked as leader or guide of the group of "ikran seekers" and that's why he didn't use ikran.
It's not probable that someone who didn't pass the Iknimaya ceremony before could guide group of newcomers.
Oe lu skxawng skxakep. Slä oe nerume mi.
"Oe tasyätxaw ulte koren za'u oehu" (Limonádový Joe)


SyenMakto

Quote from: Blue Elf on April 20, 2014, 03:04:39 PM
Quote from: Atokirina Sweriye on April 20, 2014, 02:27:46 PM
I get the impression it's not only Jake who don't have an Ikran, since Tsu'tey says "Jake will go _fist_ which inclines someone else is going after him. (I don't think Tsy'tey has an Ikran yet either, and it's obvious he's not pleased when Jake makes it and makes tsaheylu with the one that has choosen him.)
Yes, there were other young hunters who need to find their ikrans. But I don't believe Tsu'tey didn't have his own ikran at that time. I think he worked as leader or guide of the group of "ikran seekers" and that's why he didn't use ikran.
It's not probable that someone who didn't pass the Iknimaya ceremony before could guide group of newcomers.

I agree with Blue Elf that Tsu'tey did have an ikran. When Hometree is falling, he and several other hunters run to the top of Hometree and fly out. He instantly bonds and flys to safety, so he had to have already bonded with an ikran.
-Syen Makto
"Fly like you will die tomorrow, and live to fly again"