Crimean crisis, will Crimea join Russia?

[Tsanten Eywa 'eveng]

Well, it is official now. Petro Poroshenko will be the next President of Ukraine. He will take office next month. Arseniy Yatsenyuk will likely continue as the Prime Minister.

[Tsanten Eywa 'eveng]

While Ukraine has got Petro Poroshenko as the new president, things are getting worse in Eastern Ukraine. Recent news is that an armed militia has stormed an airport in the Donetsk Oblast region.
Petro Poroshenko himself says that Russia needs to help Ukraine to end the violent unrest in the east.
http://edition.cnn.com/2014/05/26/world/europe/ukraine-crisis/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

http://edition.cnn.com/video/?/video/world/2014/05/26/ukraine-airport-shutdown.cnn&hpt=hp_t1&from_homepage=yes&video_referrer=http%3A%2F%2Fedition.cnn.com%2F
Gunmen storm Ukrainian airport

[Tsanten Eywa 'eveng]

It was the Donetsk International Airport that got attacked today. The situation is chaotic. The Ukrainian military has headed toward the airport to calm down the situation. According to Ukrainian security sources, have military aircrafts attacked targets on the ground.

[archaic]

My heart goes out to the innocent civilians dragged into this.

[Tsanten Eywa 'eveng]

My heart goes out to the innocent civilians dragged into this.

This is really bad. Today it was announced that 40 people died in the attack. Currently now, the Donetsk Airport is closed. 2 of them are civilians.
http://edition.cnn.com/2014/05/27/world/europe/ukraine-crisis/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

[Tsanten Eywa 'eveng]

At least 14 people, including a general, were killed Thursday when a Ukrainian military helicopter was shot down by "terrorists" near Slovyansk, acting President Oleksandr Turchynov told Parliament.

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/05/29/world/europe/ukraine-crisis/index.html?hpt=hp_t3

Turchynov said the chopper, which was carrying soldiers for a troop rotation, was shot down using a Russian rocket-propelled grenade launcher.
Militants in the rebel stronghold claimed responsibility for downing the helicopter, a spokesman for the militants said. The aircraft had flown there from Kramatorsk, he said, where the Ukrainian military has a substantial presence.
The large loss of life will be a major blow to the Ukrainian military, which on Monday toughened its approach to the separatist movement when it launched a fierce assault on militants who'd taken control of part of Donetsk airport.

Also in Slovyansk, the self-declared mayor said pro-Russia separatist militants are holding four European observers who have been missing since Monday. But he declined to say where.
"Our militants got them," Vyacheslav Ponomarev said Thursday. "They were detained because they didn't respect my request. I asked them not to leave Donetsk (city). They decided they were smarter and could come here."
Ponomarev added that the monitors from the Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe were not being held in the town.
They also are not "exchange material," he said, indicating that they were not being held to swap for separatists detained by Kiev authorities.
Ponomarev said he had been in contact with the OSCE, and they were assessing the situation. He said he would probably release the monitors soon but wouldn't say when.
On Wednesday, Ukrainian Foreign Ministry spokesman Yevhen Perebynis said that a pro-Russia group was holding the monitors and that negotiations for their release were "in process."
The four team members, who are Swiss, Turkish, Estonian and Danish, were on a routine patrol Monday east of Donetsk city when last heard from, according to the OSCE.
The last time an OSCE team went missing in the Donetsk region, its members also turned up in the hands of the militant separatists in Slovyansk -- and were described by Ponomarev as "prisoners of war." They were freed just over a week later.
There were fears Wednesday for the safety of another group of 11 monitors who went missing after being stopped at a roadblock in Marinka, west of Donetsk city, but the group later re-established contact with the OSCE.
The OSCE said Thursday that the 11 had been abducted for seven hours by a dozen-strong armed group but were released.

Dozens of pro-Russia separatists were killed after Ukrainian security forces launched their assault on Donetsk International Airport on Monday, following the militants' seizure of a terminal.
The military's move -- only hours after President-elect Petro Poroshenko declared his election win -- was interpreted by some as an indication that he will take a tougher stance as he seeks to unify the country.
Now, the grim task of returning the dead to their families is under way.
At least 33 Russian citizens are among the militants killed during the violence, a spokesman for the self-declared Donetsk People's Republic told a CNN team at the morgue.
The bodies have been identified, and there is an agreement with the local police to escort the remains back to Russia soon, several separatist representatives said.
The bodies will be taken across the border to the southwestern Russian city of Rostov-on-Don. From there, they will be transported to different cities according to where they are from, reportedly including Moscow and Grozny in the Russian republic of Chechnya.
The CNN team at the morgue in Donetsk city saw at least 10 coffins.
The separatist spokesman at the morgue said the men were volunteers from across Russia who had come to help stand with the separatists against the authorities in Kiev.
The spokesman also said that there are still about 15 bodies left at the airport that the separatists haven't been able to collect or identify. About 20 of those killed are Ukrainian, he said.
The Donetsk mayor's official website put the airport death toll at 40 Tuesday, including two civilians, but did not specify how many were separatists.
But the separatist spokesman said the death toll could be as high as 70.
If confirmed, this would make Monday the deadliest day in Ukraine since the bloody clashes in Kiev's Independence Square, or Maidan, which triggered the ouster of pro-Moscow President Viktor Yanukovych in February and led to the current spiral into violence in the east.

[Tsanten Eywa 'eveng]

What the hell is Obama doing? He will now spend alot more now on the U.S military. He is increasing the military budget with 1 billion dollars, just to help and secure Europe. Why the hell can't we do this on our own? Why do we need to get help from the USA all the time? In every damn politican case here in Europe, they are involved. It's enough with this crap.

It's true. I am really tired, that the USA must always get involved in our cases.
http://edition.cnn.com/2014/06/03/politics/obama-europe/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

[Tìtstewan]

Thanks to the NATO... Don't forgot, that the US like to play "world police"...
The EU would be able to protect itself.

[Tsanten Eywa 'eveng]

Thanks to the NATO... Don't forgot, that the US like to play "world police"...
The EU would be able to protect itself.

I heard in the radio today that most of these money are going to Ukraine, so they can upgrade their military, so they will be able to protect themselves. But i am saying, EU is capable of protecting itself, without USA.

[Tsanten Eywa 'eveng]

I have thought about this ongoing situation here in Europe so much, that just a couple of nights ago, i dreamt that European countries had to vote to join an Eurasian Union. When i dreamt it, i got an image of the world map of which countries who were in the voting for joining the Eurasian Union and who refused to vote.
I don't think this will ever happen, but who knows. It was just a dream.


Already within the Eurasian Union
Voting to join the Eurasian Union
Refused to vote


European map


World map

[baritone]

What the hell is Obama doing? He will now spend alot more now on the U.S military. He is increasing the military budget with 1 billion dollars, just to help and secure Europe. Why the hell can't we do this on our own? Why do we need to get help from the USA all the time? In every damn politican case here in Europe, they are involved. It's enough with this crap.

It's true. I am really tired, that the USA must always get involved in our cases.
http://edition.cnn.com/2014/06/03/politics/obama-europe/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

Someone wanted more money, and decided to increase the U.S. military budget for this, Obama had to obey him. If Putin had not annexed the Crimea, there would be another excuse. I remember that the U.S. during the Second World War put Japan in such conditions that Japan was forced to attack Pearl Harbor. I do not condone Japan, Japan misbehaved during the war, but........

By the way, do not you think that the situation in the east of Ukraine now is very similar to what was in Chechnya?
1) War in Chechnya called anti-terrorist operation, as well as the war in the east of Ukraine.
2) President Poroshenko was judo wrestler, like Putin.
3) In Chechnya, and in the east of Ukraine military use artillery and multiple rocket launchers, while the military claimed that all the shells fall only terrorists and never fall into the civilians in their homes. Recently bomber have attacked the administration of Luhansk region by unguided missiles, as a result the separatist Minister of Health was among the eight killed in the building. In the war in Chechnya bombers attacked the administration in Grozny as well.
4) Chechens well treated soldiers that called up for service, but they considered the soldiers on contract as evil beasts. Separatists in eastern Ukraine are also trying to maintain good relations with the soldiers of the regular army, but hate and seek to kill the servants of the National Guard.
5) During the war in Chechnya, pro-government newspapers in Russia raised sensation because of foreign volunteers and weapons supplies to Chechnya from abroad. Now volunteers traveling from Russia to the Donbas, and not from Ukraine to Chechnya, but still the propagandists portray the situation as if foreigners are fighting instead of locals. And in Chechnya, and in the east of Ukraine military complain that the separatists have better weapons than the military. 

Speaking of volunteers. There is a former paratrooper from the GDR in eastern Ukraine. He have served in GDR in a military unit, where they took only the most convinced communists. Perhaps he adheres Comintern definition of fascism, and considers himself a fighter against fascism, as if there is the civil war in Spain in the 1930s now.

In eastern Ukraine, as usual, the rich play in the hope of earning a lot of money, and all that at the cost of deaths of Ukrainians. And so we have not prevented them, Colonel Quaritch encourages us to save their homeland from 20,000 Na'vi.

[Tsanten Eywa 'eveng]

What the hell is Obama doing? He will now spend alot more now on the U.S military. He is increasing the military budget with 1 billion dollars, just to help and secure Europe. Why the hell can't we do this on our own? Why do we need to get help from the USA all the time? In every damn politican case here in Europe, they are involved. It's enough with this crap.

It's true. I am really tired, that the USA must always get involved in our cases.
http://edition.cnn.com/2014/06/03/politics/obama-europe/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

Someone wanted more money, and decided to increase the U.S. military budget for this, Obama had to obey him. If Putin had not annexed the Crimea, there would be another excuse. I remember that the U.S. during the Second World War put Japan in such conditions that Japan was forced to attack Pearl Harbor. I do not condone Japan, Japan misbehaved during the war, but........

By the way, do not you think that the situation in the east of Ukraine now is very similar to what was in Chechnya?

The situation in Eastern Ukraine is indeed similiar of what happened in 2008 in Georgia.


On the other hand, this is beyond everything. Putin has now gone too far. Come on, cooperating with North Korea? If Putin forms a relation with North Korea, I don't think Obama will cooperate with Russia.

I am pretty sure, if this happens, North Korea will likely join the Eurasian Union(EAU).
Are Putin and Kim Jong Un teaming up?

[Wllìm]

Perhaps finally a bit of good news in this conflict that seems to never end Apparently, Putin and the newly elected Ukrainian president Porosjenko have had a short, informal conversation during the D-day commemoration in Normandy (France) today.


Russian president Putin has talked to his Ukrainian colleague Porosjenko during a lunch with world leaders in Normandy. In Château de Bénouville leaders of about twenty countries assembled to commemorate D-day. Also Angela Merkel was at the conversation.

It is said that Putin and Porosjenko have shaked hands, and that they have promised that the bloodshed in Ukraine must stop quickly.

According to a spokesperson of president Hollande, this talk opens the door for a Russian recognition of Porosjenko's election. He was elected in May. Tomorrow he will be inaugurated in Kiev.

source (in Dutch)

Let's hope that this starts a better relation between the two countries... I'm not too optimistic though

[baritone]

By the way, do not you think that the situation in the east of Ukraine now is very similar to what was in Chechnya?

The situation in Eastern Ukraine is indeed similiar of what happened in 2008 in Georgia.

On the other hand, this is beyond everything. Putin has now gone too far.

Of course, this is not good to capture foreign lands. It would be nicer if Putin responded to a referendum in the Crimea as follows:
"I respect your choice, but I see that it is done quickly. I do not want to Russia could be blamed for the annexation of the Crimea. Let's assume that the referendum was a preliminary decision. You can create your own state, and a few years later hold a referendum once again. I promise that Russia will help you in case of a blockade by Ukraine."
But Putin has decided to attach Crimea, and now the U.S. threaten Russia with sanctions if the separatists will not surrender.

I prefer to separatists do not lay down their weapons. Putin and Russian oligarchs must suffer from sanctions. Ukrainian oligarchs should see that they do not succeed, despite the terror, kidnapping and murder. Ukrainian patriots should see that their attempts to get people in the east of Ukraine to accept the new economic policy is useless, and that they are used by oligarchs as cannon fodder. Patriotic deception should be dissipated, and Ukrainians should understand their problems and to arrange new Maidan, and this time did not allow to oligarchs to use Popular anger against the oligarchs in favor of the oligarchs. If someone think that if the terrorists surrender, it is easiest way to stop suffering the people in eastern Ukraine, let him to think if he ready to propose to the Syrian rebels surrendered?

If Putin forms a relation with North Korea, I don't think Obama will cooperate with Russia.

I am pretty sure, if this happens, North Korea will likely join the Eurasian Union(EAU).
Are Putin and Kim Jong Un teaming up?

Russia is now actively cooperating with South Korea in space exploration.
It sells for South Korea the first stages of Korean rockets.

According to a spokesperson of president Hollande, this talk opens the door for a Russian recognition of Porosjenko's election. He was elected in May. Tomorrow he will be inaugurated in Kiev.

Porosjenko wanted to bring a counter-terrorism operation to the end to hold the inauguration in Donetsk.

Let's hope that this starts a better relation between the two countries... I'm not too optimistic though

I am more than sure that it will actually starts a better relationship between Russia and Ukraine. EU and USA force Porosjenko to accommodate the interests of Russia as a "regional power". In response, Putin orders Russian intelligence agencies to catch volunteers. Business people agrees on the distribution of profits again, and as usual, the authorities will not care the problems of ordinary people.
If anyone doubts, remember how England cajoled Russia after the Crimean War in the 19th century. It is a business, justice nobody cares.

[Tsanten Eywa 'eveng]

Today, Petro Poroshenko took the office has the new president of Ukraine.
He also held a speech today for the people of Ukraine, and it got really tough. Poroshenko will rebuild the military in Ukraine and he promised to meet anyone challenging Ukraine's territorial integrity with military might. Alluding to a Biblical verse he said, "Who comes with the sword will fall from the sword."
The country will build the means to do so, Poroshenko said, and re-arming the Ukrainian army must be a priority. "No one will protect us, if we do not learn to protect ourselves."
He called for separatists in Ukraine's east who have taken up arms against the government to lay them down and offered amnesty to those who "do not have blood on their hands."
Poroshenko also called for corridors to open to allow fighters who have joined pro-Russia separatist forces from outside the country to leave Ukraine.
In Russia, President Vladimir Putin ordered border guards to stop the illegal crossings of people from Ukraine by beefing up security, the state-run ITAR-Tass news agency reported.
Meanwhile, in Donetsk on Saturday, an assistant to Denis Pushilin, the head of the self-proclaimed Donetsk Republic, was killed in an attack in broad daylight, a CNN crew at the scene said.
Attackers shot at the car that Maksim Petruhin was in, and when he exited the vehicle, he was shot and killed. It was the most brazen attack in Donetsk since the unrest began.
http://edition.cnn.com/2014/06/07/world/europe/ukraine-president-inauguration/index.html?hpt=hp_t1


Does this mean that Poroshenko might declare war on Donetsk and Luhansk, and perhaps this will lead that he will also declare war on President Vladimir Putin? Because Vladimir Puin said today that is increasing the border patrols along the Russia-Ukraine border.

[baritone]

Does this mean that Poroshenko might declare war on Donetsk and Luhansk, and perhaps this will lead that he will also declare war on President Vladimir Putin? Because Vladimir Puin said today that is increasing the border patrols along the Russia-Ukraine border.

It means what I predicted in a previous message here:

Let's hope that this starts a better relation between the two countries...

Putin will order Russian intelligence agencies to catch volunteers.

If the new government of Ukraine did not provoke a war with the east of Ukraine, through which the oligarchs were able to turn Maidan supporters into cannon fodder, Maidan "will hang Jeff Davis to a sour apple tree!" (C)

[baritone]

Poroshenko announced the temporary ceasefire. I wonder, is he agreed that the terrorists also stopped firing? Secessionists may have other plans for that time, for example, kick a few military units from his territory. Maybe it would be better for a cease-fire if Poroshenko first simply called separatists by phone and discuss this issue?

[Tsanten Eywa 'eveng]

Russia have done it, of what they said they would do. They would cut the gas supplies to Ukraine. Not totally, but limited it. Also Ukraine is now in a $4.5 billion debt to Russia.
http://money.cnn.com/2014/06/16/news/ukraine-russia-gas/index.html?hpt=hp_4




Representatives from Ukraine, Russia and the European Union held meetings over the weekend in an effort to avert the crisis, but no agreement was reached.

Gazprom said Monday that Ukraine's total debt is $4.5 billion. The state-owned gas firm will now only deliver gas that Ukraine has paid for in advance.
"At this moment no payments for old debt or June were paid," said Gazprom spokesman Sergey Kupriyanov. "All charts show zeroes."
Both sides said they have filed claims with an international arbitration court in Stockholm.
While Gazprom hiked the price it charges Ukraine by about 80% to $485.50 per thousand cubic meters of gas in April, some concessions have been offered during recent talks. Gazprom charged European countries an average of $377.50 per thousand cubic meters in 2013.

The gas dispute between Moscow and Kiev has escalated as relations between the two countries have deteriorated.
Europe and the U.S. have imposed sanctions on Russia for its annexation of Crimea, while analysts have accused Russia of using natural gas supplies as a political tool.
In recent weeks, violence has again flared in eastern Ukraine as government forces clashed with pro-Russian militants. The military conflict was clearly having an effect on gas negotiations.
"We will not subsidize Russian Gazprom," Ukrainian Prime Minister Arseniy Yatsenyuk said Monday. "Ukrainians will not take out of their pockets $5 billion annually for Russia to use this money to buy weapons, tanks and jets and bomb Ukrainian territories."

Europe relies on Russia for more than 30% of its gas, and half of that is pumped through Ukraine. Analysts worry that a disruption in supplies to Ukraine could hurt European companies and households.
Kupriyanov said Monday that "gas designated for European consumers is flowing in full accordance with the contract's figures."

[baritone]

"We will not subsidize Russian Gazprom," Ukrainian Prime Minister Arseniy Yatsenyuk said Monday. "Ukrainians will not take out of their pockets $5 billion annually for Russia to use this money to buy weapons, tanks and jets and bomb Ukrainian territories."

Ukrainian oligarchs insolence has gone too far.  

They forgot that they become governors and presidents using silly Maidan activists. Now their hired thugs set fire to some city hall premises to expel Maidan activists, and their media accused of setting fire to the victims themselves:
http://vesti.ua/kiev/55573-kievskaja-mjerija-polnostju-zachiwena-ot-aktivistov

They discontinued economic cooperation and refusing to deliver prepaid industrial products to Russia, thay stopped paying for gas even at old prices, thay swamp the channel which supplies Crimea with water, and after all that they they want to pay for gas at prices that were assigned for the development of economic relations between Ukraine and Russia, and threaten to take the gas without paying as much as they want, if Russia does not continue to subsidize their economies.

They try to justify their greed, saying he did not want to pay the bombing of Ukraine, when nobody except Ukrainian military aviation does not bomb the cityes of Ukraine. In the suburbs of Sloviansk they used firebombs:
http://rt.com/news/165628-ukraine-incendiary-bombs-phosphorus/

They destroy the electricity and water supply to expel the inhabitants of the cities, and I suppose that the people will not be able to go back in Slavyansk, because the residents of Slavyansk was protested against shale gas production near their city under the previous government.
http://eco.slaviansk.com/en/bespredel *
http://eco.slaviansk.com/en/history

Now oligarch will accuse the ecologists of collaborating with Gazprom, and silence them by force of arms. I think that the oligarchs will be more convenient if the former residents of Slavyansk will not return back.

[Tsanten Eywa 'eveng]

Well, who cares about what Putin thinks. So what, if the Ukrainian president has signed an agreement with EU.
http://edition.cnn.com/2014/06/27/world/europe/ukraine-crisis/index.html?hpt=ieu_c2

Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko on Friday signed a broad agreement of cooperation with the European Union, the same deal whose reversal set off a crisis in the nation.
The signing came hours before the President's office announced a three-day extension of a cease-fire. This is the latest step suggesting Ukraine may be moving back from the brink of full-fledged civil war -- though the situation remains volatile, with continued violence and the constant fear of yet more, cease-fire or not.
This tension has recent roots in then-President Viktor Yanukovych's decision to shun the EU Association Agreement last year and work with Russia instead. That move unleashed deadly strife that led to Yanukovych's ouster, the loss of Crimea and a pro-Russia separatist rebellion.
Sealing the deal may be the second-most important moment in Ukraine's history, Poroshenko said, after its independence from Russia.
He said the signing "shows how dramatically things can change in a short time, if the will of the people is strong enough."
And he paid tribute, on what he described as a "great day" in the nation's history, to Ukrainians who lost their lives when protests over closer ties with Europe turned bloody.

The document we will sign today is not just political and economic, it is a symbol of faith and unbreakable will," he said.
"It is a tribute to people who gave their lives and health to make this moment happen, and it is the strongest reminder that today's Europe is and must be about people's determination to live in a better and safer world."
Poroshenko said that in signing the Association Agreement, he was making a unilateral statement that his country has underlined its choice of future membership in the EU.
And he signaled to Russia that its efforts to undermine the closer unification of Europe would fail in the face of Ukraine's determination to pursue its European dreams.
He used the same pen intended for use in November before Yanukovych turned his back on the agreement in favor of Moscow.

Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov said on Russian state TV that signing the EU deal is a "sovereign right" but that "Russia will undertake its measure if its market is negatively affected" by the agreement.
Such action probably would be protective trade measures intended to shield Russian producers and industry from an influx of potentially cheaper, better-quality goods from Europe.
Speaking at a Brussels news conference after the signing, Poroshenko said what was needed more than sanctions was a "real dialogue" with Russia. The EU and the United States have repeatedly warned Moscow that more economic sanctions could be imposed if it doesn't act to defuse the crisis.
"I really hope that finally now this dialogue will take place and we will have a real cease-fire and the implementation of my peace plan," Poroshenko said.