Crimean crisis, will Crimea join Russia?

[Kemaweyan]

In the video, which was presented by the Ukrainian authorities as proof that the separatists trafficked launcher from Ukraine to Russia, next to the launcher there is a poster advertising car center, which is located in the Krasnoarmiysk at street  Dnipropetrovsk, 34. This city is under the control of the Army of Ukraine from May 11, and located west of Donetsk, and quite far from the border. So that the separatists has that launcher before May 11, or that is an Ukrainian launcher. The Russian Defense Ministry does not cast doubt on the lack of anti-aircraft missiles on this Ukrainian launcher.

I asked to do not repeat fake news and propaganda from Russian TV. Now you said the same lie which was on Russia Today.

http://www.stopfake.org/fejk-ukrainskaya-armiya-transportirovala-zrk-buk-bez-odnoj-rakety-po-podkontrolnoj-territorii/

And in any case, his statements coincided with the testimony of witnesses, radar data of Russian armed forces, and data of Russian air traffic controllers. So he had the opportunity to watch the sky on the day of the crash.

Or just uses the same guidelines which all Kremlin's propagandists use. Therefore their lie is the same... Anyway if you're agree that he is just a bot, we can't trust any his words.

And instead of having to shoot down military planes, which were flying lower than a passenger aircraft, they decided to shoot down a passenger plane that was flying at a height such that hit the target without additional radar was unlikely?

Now a powerful propaganda machine has been run. Russia wants to blame Ukraine though it's completely clear who shot down the plane. They even tried to change an article about Su-25 on Wikipedia. The information about Buk (that it's impossible to shot down targets on 10 km without additional radar) is a part of this propaganda too. Also pictures from Russian radars (it's easy to draw anything now), a bot Carlos and a lot of lies which we have not yet hear... And your words seem a part of this propaganda too. You don't believe that separatists shot down the plane? It's your right. But the World already understood it...

1) the Ukrainian authorities have made every effort to international experts as long as possible could not get to the crash site of the aircraft

What? Actually Goebbels was right: "The bigger the lie, the more it will be believed". Actually separatists prevent international experts to get to the crash site. It's controlled by them, how Ukrainian authorities could do it?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/russian/rolling_news/2014/07/140718_rn_osce_observers_mn17.shtml

military aircraft bombed the road on which the Malaysian experts dare to go to the scene

What? Where are the facts?



Even Russian military expert on Russian TV says that Russian Defense Ministry lies https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eXNMnFYv3HM It's a fail of propaganda, they was mistaken when ask him...

[Tìtstewan]

Well, if Goebbels would see that kind of propaganda that is running today, he would be very jealious...

Currenty, the official media about Ukrainian crisis isn't really trustworthy. (I can speak only from view of Germany)
As for the Buk rocket system, as far as I know, a buk roket can find itself targets (it has a rada modul in the head of the rocket), it must not necessarly have a radar mobile module.
The weird thing is, that the buk has usually a friend-enemy detection...

[Kemaweyan]

The weird thing is, that the buk has usually a friend-enemy detection...

It could be removed. But it seems impossible without Russian military specialists. So probably they were there...

[Tsanten Eywa 'eveng]

No. But I think it's possible to fake any images However when separatists themselves say that they shot down the plane, it is not a fake. They was boasting that they shot down the plane while they did not know that the plane is passenger Boeing.

That is a possibility, that the separatists maybe thought it was a military aicraft who was carrying a bomb. Maybe they thought this plane was gonna bomb Donetsk. However, one other side of me says this is just too crazy, because who would bomb a whole city with a million people citizens? Who the hell would do that? That's just too crazy, and i know the Ukrainian military is not that stupid. So i think the separatists knew it was a passenger plane, instead of a military aircraft.



Anyways, here's a video that was released today where President Barack Obama made a statement on the current situation in Ukraine
http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2014/07/21/president-gives-update-situation-ukraine
The President Gives an Update on Ukraine and Gaza

[Tìtstewan]

Well, the interesting thing is, why do the US gouvernment puts their noses into European problems?

[Tsanten Eywa 'eveng]

Well, the interesting thing is, why do the US gouvernment puts their noses into European problems?

I have asked the same question, but for one thing, there were Americans onboard that plane.

[Tìtstewan]

But they were active before that plane thing...

[Kemaweyan]

That is a possibility, that the separatists maybe thought it was a military aicraft who was carrying a bomb. Maybe they thought this plane was gonna bomb Donetsk.

Probably they did not think at all. They got an ability to shoot down the planes on such altitude, there was euphoria and they decided to shoot down all planes in "his" sky. Girkin said: "Do not fly in our sky".

[baritone]

Kemaweyan, let's see your link. As recommended in link, let alone the address written on the advertising stand. Answer the questions that are on your link: where is in Krasnodon auto shop "Bogdan"? It is in Krasnoarmeisk. So your stopfake.org too selective in their revelations.

About Carlos. Do you have an answer to the question of how he saw what was happening in the sky, if he's a propagandist? So bulls*** all the evidence, based on which twitter erased his blog.

About who interferes with the investigation. Separatist leader many days requires arrival of commission and the beginning of the investigation, requires the ability to remove the corpses into the morgue, trying to convey their demands through the journalists at the press conference, because they can not achieve anything on the phone. From Kiev, he is told that touch corpses prohibited. And after all this, the UK representative accuses him that he mocks corpses. There is no other explanation for this other than the fact that someone in the leadership of the UK and some other EU countries is a vile liar and a crook.

[baritone]

Probably they did not think at all. They got an ability to shoot down the planes on such altitude, there was euphoria and they decided to shoot down all planes in "his" sky. Girkin said: "Do not fly in our sky".

You say that they decided to shoot down all aircraft, including civil, but you pretend that you forgot about Ukrainian planes that bombed the city from a great height, which could be shoot down through BUK-1M, if they separatist had it, and it was ready to work.

[Kemaweyan]

Kemaweyan, let's see your link. As recommended in link, let alone the address written on the advertising stand. Answer the questions that are on your link: where is in Krasnodon auto shop "Bogdan"? It is in Krasnoarmeisk. So your stopfake.org too selective in their revelations.

You want to say that an advertising stand of auto shop which is in Krasnoarmeisk could be in Krasnoarmeisk only?   Those all are small towns and it's completely natural that there are advertising stands of shops from from other towns. For example there are a lot of advertisement from other towns in Dzhankoy (Crimea, there my brother lives). So that stand means nothing...

About Carlos. Do you have an answer to the question of how he saw what was happening in the sky, if he's a propagandist? So bulls*** all the evidence, based on which twitter erased his blog.

He did not see it. He just writes what his bosses send him Obvious...

About who interferes with the investigation.

Why Putin today said that he should influence on separatists so that they allow international experts to get to crash side?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/ukrainian/rolling_news_russian/2014/07/140722_ru_n_putin_ukraine.shtml

but you pretend that you forgot about Ukrainian planes that bombed the city from a great height

It's a lie. Ukrainian army does not bomb cities.

[Tsanten Eywa 'eveng]

but you pretend that you forgot about Ukrainian planes that bombed the city from a great height

It's a lie. Ukrainian army does not bomb cities.

But, your military is only attacking cities from ground, like what just happened in Slovyansk(Слов'янськ). Slovyansk was controlled by the pro-Russians but is now under control by the Ukrainian military. But i think nobody were killed in that operation. The pro-Russians there surendered and leaved Slovyansk. Do you know if somebody actually got killed in that operation, from both sides?

[Kemaweyan]

Ukrainian army does not attack civil cities. They attack terrorists only, but terrorists hide between civil buildings therefore it's so hard to eliminate them. And then ATO is continuing so long...

[Kemaweyan]

Russia admitted that terrorists shot down the Boeing 777? Churkin said: "If they think they shot down a military jet, it was confusion. If it was confusion, it was not an act of terrorism."

http://www.myarklamiss.com/story/d/story/mh17-crash-did-russia-pull-the-trigger-ukraine-say/10676/Dse2LxWcpUiLR4wSGN7fuw

[baritone]

After the U.S. reported their information about the place of launching point (for some reason they have tagged it very roughly), it is now possible to speculate why supposed separatist BUK-1M, instead of shooting at the attacking Ukrainian Bombers, decided to fire the plane, which was like a military transport. If separatists fired on the aircraft, the picture looks that way.

Spoiler

Ukrainian army after July 13 concluded that the separatists have Su-25, and started to place anti-aircraft missiles in the area of ​​anti-terrorist operation. The point is that the air attack of separatists have been reported in the press. At that time separatists broke through the defense of Ukrainian troops that performing the task of separatists isolation from the Russian border. Through one of the points where the separatists came to the Russian border to surround Ukrainian troops, separatists, who were trained in Russia to working with anti-aircraft missile launcher Buk-1M, was driven launcher on the territory of Ukraine towards the city Torez. Before reaching the battlefields where the Ukrainian army uses air strikes, they made ​​a stop during which visually noticed the plane. He decided that this is military transport aircraft AN-26 or IL-76 and decided to shoot it down. Once they learned that they shot down a civilian plane, they were ordered to remove the launcher back and immediately left for Russia. Object that flew to the aircraft in a minute after he slowed down, could be an separatists airplane Su-25 or generally unidentified flying object (UFO).

The only thing remains unclear is why the Ukrainian air defense had not noticed a small plane that flew to the wrecked Boeing, as well as what Buk-1M with missing missile was shot on video and in what city.

Summarize. If this version is found to be the most convincing, the new Ukrainian government will win the war against the separatists. What is a modern Ukrainian authorities can be judged by this reportage from the Ukrainian Parliament.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qKHnVPzxmOg
This video shows how by the request of a deputy from the fascist party, without a formal decision, but with the approval of the Speaker of Parliament, the chairman of the Communist Party is expelled from the courtroom by force. At this time, the chairman of the Socialist Party delivers a speech that at the request of the IMF now abolished all laws on social security adopted in the last 10 years. But deputies do not care, they kicked the deputy, who, in their opinion, defamed the methods of anti-terrorist operation.

Spoiler

Recently the chances that the separatists pushed some reasonable alternative to the policies of the Ukrainian government, lost. However, the defeat of the Ukrainian government in the fight against the separatists would give a chance for the forces, fighting for social justice in the main territory of Ukraine.
Left in Russia are concerned what is happening in Ukraine, and we are ready to support Ukrainians not only against the Russian oligarchs, if they tried to use the separatists for plunder Ukraine, but if Ukrainians, despite the victory of the Ukrainian government, will find some courage to rebel against the robbery of international corporations.

For some time, I leave you. Probably, I'll go to the hospital because of a blood clot in my left leg. I wish you luck and happiness!
I apologize that I did not answer all the questions, I write in English too slow 

[Kemaweyan]

The only thing remains unclear is why the Ukrainian air defense had not noticed a small plane that flew to the wrecked Boeing, as well as what Buk-1M with missing missile was shot on video and in what city.

Probably that's because there were no other planes except Boeing 777

What is a modern Ukrainian authorities can be judged by this reportage from the Ukrainian Parliament.

Parliament is not a place for enemy propaganda. Communists support terrorism in Ukraine and should bear criminal responsibility. Besides they are not true communists because all the time supported Yanukovich and other oligarchs...

Recently the chances that the separatists pushed some reasonable alternative to the policies of the Ukrainian government, lost.

It's a joke? Do you mean that it is possible that some people who hate Ukraine (separatists) could be in Ukrainian government? They are enemies of Ukrainian country and should be liquidated. BTW, Ukrainian communists hate Ukraine too, they want to join Russia or create something like "USSR 2.0" and even don't conceal it. So it's absolutely normal that they were kicked from Parliament... I think Ukrainian court should forbid their party as anti-Ukrainian...

[Tsanten Eywa 'eveng]

Now, look where all this has gotten. Prime Minister of Ukraine, Arseniy Yatsenyuk, is resigning from the Ukrainian gouvernment.
http://edition.cnn.com/2014/07/24/world/europe/ukraine-malaysia-airlines-crash/index.html?hpt=ieu_c1

Ukrainian Prime Minister Arseniy Yatsenyuk and his Cabinet announced their resignation Thursday
"I announce my resignation after the collapse of the coalition and the blocking of government initiatives," Yatsenyuk told parliament.
Ukrainian political experts said they expected the resignation, and that Yatsenyuk and his Cabinet will remain in place as an acting government until elections in October.

[Kemaweyan]

A girl from Torez uploaded a photo of mascara from Malaysia Boeing to Instagram:



She wrote: "A mascara from Amsterdam, i.e. from the field. Well, you understand."

old gallery link?id=5590[/img]

[Tsanten Eywa 'eveng]

President Barack Obama told in a statement that this is not a new cold war, but is continuing again with new sanctions, and hope to crush Russia's economy into pieces. EU has also done the same thing.
http://edition.cnn.com/2014/07/29/world/europe/ukraine-crisis/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

United States and European Union officials agreed Tuesday to ratchet up economic pressure on Russia as fighting escalated in Ukraine.
"If Russia continues on its current path, the cost on Russia will continue to grow," President Barack Obama said from the south lawn of the White House, "and today is a reminder that the United States means what it says. We will rally the international community in standing up for the rights and freedom of people around the world."
Some of the new EU sanctions target eight "cronies" of Russian President Vladimir Putin and three "entities" by limiting their access to EU capital markets, an EU official said on condition of anonymity. The people and entities will be named Wednesday, the official said.
Among the new sanctions announced by Washington: Three Moscow-based banks -- Bank of Moscow; Russian Agricultural Bank; and VTB Bank OAO -- will not be able to get new medium- and long-term financing in the United States, the U.S. Treasury Department said.
The sanctions are not part of a new Cold War, Obama said.
"What it is, is a very specific issue-related to Russia's unwillingness to recognize that Ukraine can chart its own path," Obama said, referring to the sanctions.
The sanctions targeted the arms, energy and finance sectors, he said.
The EU sanctions also will block new arms contracts between Europe and Russia, prohibit the export of European goods that can be used for both civilian and military purposes and limit the export of energy-related equipment, the EU said in a written statement Tuesday evening.
The move adds to sanctions that Europe and the United States already had in place against Russia over its disputed annexation of Crimea and its support of pro-Russian rebels fighting the Ukrainian government.
"It is meant as a strong warning: Illegal annexation of territory and deliberate destabilization of a neighboring sovereign country cannot be accepted in 21st century Europe," the European Council's statement reads.
Obama said Russia could choose a different path.

"It didn't have to come to this. It does not have to be this way," Obama said. "This is a choice that Russia and President (Vladimir) Putin in particular has made. ... The path for a peaceful resolution to this crisis involves recognizing the sovereignty, the territorial integrity and the independence of the Ukrainian people."
The violence has prevented investigators from getting to the crash site of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17.
Expert: No Cold War, but temps dropping


here's the statement
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCYxRlFDqcWM4y7FfpiAN3KQ
The President Speaks on the Situation in Ukraine

[Kemaweyan]