Crimean crisis, will Crimea join Russia?

[archaic]

LOL!   

[Tsanten Eywa 'eveng]

Russia strikes back. Prohibits import for all EU countries, USA included.
Russian President Vladimir Putin has named a new target as global sparring over Ukraine grows: food.
In a decree signed Wednesday, Putin banned food and agricultural imports from countries that have imposed sanctions against his country.
The retaliatory move comes more than a week after the United States and European Union increased economic sanctions on Moscow for supporting pro-Russian separatists fighting Ukraine government forces in the eastern regions of Donetsk and Luhansk, along the border with Russia.
A list of specific products and food bans is still being worked out by the Russian government, according to the decree, which describes the order as a special economic measure "aimed at ensuring the security of the Russian Federation."
http://edition.cnn.com/2014/08/06/world/europe/russia-ukraine-crisis/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

Russia is Europe's largest importer in value of animals, meat, dairy products, fruits and vegetables, according to the European Union.
And goods from the EU represent 16% of all Russian imports, EU numbers show.
Search for MH17 victims halted for now
Putin said measures would be taken to prevent a jump in food prices in Russia.
A senior U.S. administration official told CNN a ban in imports will only deepen Russia's international isolation and work against the country's own economic interest.
"Russia's Central Bank yesterday pointed out that bans on imported food will push up Russia's already high inflation rate, eroding the purchasing power of Russian citizens," the official said.
The United States insists that sanctions against Russian businesses and individuals are having and effect and already weakened Russia's economy.
"Sanctions are working as intended in putting enormous pressure and strain on the Russian economy. ... The economy has ground to halt," U.S. President Barack Obama told reporters on Wednesday.
If Putin doesn't push to resolve problems in eastern Ukraine through diplomacy and peaceful means, Obama said, "he's going to be hurting his economy and his own people over the long term."
But so far, Obama said, violence in Ukraine hasn't stopped even as sanctions against Russia have increased.
"The issue is not resolved yet," he said. 'You still have fighting in eastern Ukraine. Civilians are dying."
Russia has denied allegations that it's supporting separatists in Ukraine and maintains that it wants to see a diplomatic solution to the crisis. But U.S. and Ukrainian officials have accused Russia of saying one thing while doing another -- building up troops along the border and continuing to send support to pro-Russian separatists.
Several countries imposed sanctions on Moscow after Russia annexed Crimea in March, which escalated the Ukraine conflict following the ouster of pro-Moscow President Viktor Yanukovych a month earlier.
Since then, tensions have simmered and flared in Ukraine, with frequent battles between Ukraine government forces and pro-Russia separatists in the eastern part of the country.
A new buildup of Russian troops along the Ukraine border raised concerns Tuesday that Moscow might be contemplating another intervention like the annexation of Crimea.
According to a NATO official, Russia now has about 20,000 troops stationed "in an area along the entire border with eastern Ukraine." The buildup nearly doubled the troop deployment in the last week by adding 8,000 more forces to 12,000 already there, the official said.

In addition, Russia's Defense Ministry is staging a week of military exercises involving air troops and anti-missile defense forces. The exercises are taking place in Russia's southern Astrakhan region, roughly 500 miles from the border with Ukraine.
Similar military exercises in the region preceded the annexation of Crimea.
U.S., EU coordinate on Russia sanctions, but will they work?
Things to know about Russia and sanctions
Russian troop increase at Ukraine border raises concerns

[Tsanten Eywa 'eveng]

While Putin banned all import of food, the rebels has once again shot down a military jet. There were 2 pilots onboard and from the last report, their parachute opened. They luckily got out of it, but that was the last report. A rescue team has been sent to look after them. Also a leader of pro-Russian rebels has resigned from his post

Alexander Borodai, prime minister of the self-proclaimed Donetsk People's Republic, told reporters in the city he was stepping down Thursday and handing power to Alexander Zakharchenko, a little-known militia commander.
Borodai, a Russian citizen who rose to power as pro-Russian rebels took portions of eastern Ukraine earlier this year, gave little reason for the move other than he considered the job of founding the republic to be finished and that it was time for a Ukrainian to take the reins.

The announcement came after days of assault on rebel positions near Donetsk by Ukrainian forces. Shelling in the Donetsk area, which could be heard periodically in and around the city, killed four civilians and injured 18 others on Thursday, local officials said.
About 25 miles to the northeast, rebels shot down a Ukrainian MiG-29 near the town of Yenakievo on Thursday evening, Ukrainian military spokesman Vladislav Seleznyov said.
http://edition.cnn.com/2014/08/07/world/europe/russia-ukraine-crisis/index.html?hpt=ieu_c1

Hear about this. Putin has taken Edward Snowden with open arms. The Russian gouvernment has given him a 3-year residency
http://edition.cnn.com/2014/08/07/world/europe/russia-snowden-residency/index.html?hpt=ieu_c2

[Tsanten Eywa 'eveng]

While all EU countries, USA, Japan, Australia to mention some other countries that has been banned to export food and agricultural products to Russia, will Europe face a new crisis as the Eurozone crisis that started in 2009? Or maybe it will be bigger than the Eurozone crisis? I think it will be a lot worse than the Eurozone crisis. I can already see here in Norway that the stockmarket has rapidly decreased.
http://edition.cnn.com/2014/08/06/world/europe/russia-ukraine-crisis/index.html

I think my homecountry will really feel the pain of Russia's sanctions, since we are at the top of exporting in the fish market.

[Kemaweyan]

How Russian TV creates "correct news" in Crimea:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1gMPIIrx2ak

[Tsanten Eywa 'eveng]

I wonder who is telling the truth. If it is true, that a Russian military convoy crossed the border over to Ukraine, it will be a serious problem. Russia claims it is just humanitarian aid.
http://edition.cnn.com/2014/08/15/world/europe/ukraine-crisis/index.html?hpt=hp_t3

Ukraine claims its artillery destroyed much of a military convoy that crossed from Russia into Ukraine this week -- an incursion that two British newspapers say they witnessed.
If true, Ukraine's account and the British reports appear to give credence to what Kiev has long alleged -- that Russia has been sending troops and arms into eastern Ukraine, where pro-Russian rebels have battled the Ukrainian military for months.
A diplomatic row was brewing Friday over the reports, with the United Kingdom's foreign office summoning Russia's ambassador in London to explain the incident.
Russia's foreign ministry has denied any such incursion, and its foreign minister will meet in Berlin with his counterparts from Ukraine, Germany and France on Sunday, state-run news agency RIA-Novosti reported. The meeting's agenda wasn't immediately released.
Meanwhile, a separate Russian convoy -- more than 200 trucks that Moscow says contain relief goods for civilians in war-torn eastern Ukraine -- remained parked on the Russian side of the border, waiting for Ukrainian and other inspectors to decide whether to approve the aid's entry.
That Ukraine so far has blocked the aid reflects Kiev's concerns -- held even before Thursday's reported military incursion -- that Russia might try to smuggle more military supplies.

Those concerns took on a new light when British media outlets The Guardian and The Telegraph reported that armored personnel carriers, along with other vehicles with Russian military plates, crossed the border near Donetsk, Ukraine, on Thursday night.
The Guardian reported that it witnessed 23 armored personnel carriers, in addition to other vehicles with Russian military plates, cross into Ukraine through a gap in a barbed wire fence. "Armed men were visible in the gloom by the border fence as the column moved into Ukraine," the Guardian report reads.
This is the first time foreign media recorded such an incursion, though it illustrates what Kiev has said has been happening for months -- that Russia has been sending troops and equipment to help the rebels -- Ukrainian military Col. Andriy Lysenko told reporters.
Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko told British Prime Minister David Cameron that Ukrainian forces destroyed "the majority" of the Russian vehicles, Poroshenko's office said.
Poroshenko "expressed concern over the situation on the border, particularly over the fact that the inflow of Russian arms and military machines in Ukraine through the open part of the border continued," his office said.
Lysenko said he didn't know exactly how many vehicles crossed the border, or how many Ukraine's artillery managed to destroy.

Ukraine: Most of Russian convoy destroyed

[archaic]

To further complicate matters, it looks like refugees in Iraq will now be given arms to defend themselves, as part of humanitarian efforts.
This would provide a shred of legitimization for Russia arming Ukrainian separatists - so they could defend themselves too.

MH17: Netherlands wrestles with huge criminal case

This is the biggest criminal investigation ever conducted in the Netherlands.

"Never before have we had a murder case with so many victims," said Wim de Bruin from the Dutch prosecution service, fielding press inquiries from all over the world. Passengers from 10 different countries were on board Flight MH17.

Ten Dutch prosecutors and 200 police officers are involved in gathering and preparing the evidence for a criminal trial.

There are three main questions about the eventual MH17 trial: Where will it be conducted? What crimes will the accused be charged with? How long before we see the suspects in court?

The Dutch prosecutors are still in the initial stages of the criminal investigation, but they have already dismissed speculation that the trial could be held at the International Criminal Court in The Hague.

The ICC only takes cases if countries are unable or unwilling to prosecute. The Dutch are willing and able.

Under the current plan, the suspects would be extradited to face trial at the District Court in The Hague. But extradition would require the host country's co-operation, once the suspects are identified.

Wim de Bruin says they are considering "several grounds and possibilities" concerning the charges.

"Of course murder, but we also have the crime of 'wrecking an airplane' and we could use international criminal law - that would mean possible charges of war crimes, torture and genocide."

Found here .....

There are other offenses that could be added to these, ones relating to the blocking of crash investigators from accessing the site, looting and more.


I'm still not sure if I want to know what Putin heard on the flight deck voice recorder, something that made him totally reassess how this was handled.

[baritone]

I wonder who is telling the truth. If it is true, that a Russian military convoy crossed the border over to Ukraine, it will be a serious problem. Russia claims it is just humanitarian aid.

Spoiler

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/08/15/world/europe/ukraine-crisis/index.html?hpt=hp_t3

Ukraine claims its artillery destroyed much of a military convoy that crossed from Russia into Ukraine this week -- an incursion that two British newspapers say they witnessed.
If true, Ukraine's account and the British reports appear to give credence to what Kiev has long alleged -- that Russia has been sending troops and arms into eastern Ukraine, where pro-Russian rebels have battled the Ukrainian military for months.
A diplomatic row was brewing Friday over the reports, with the United Kingdom's foreign office summoning Russia's ambassador in London to explain the incident.
Russia's foreign ministry has denied any such incursion, and its foreign minister will meet in Berlin with his counterparts from Ukraine, Germany and France on Sunday, state-run news agency RIA-Novosti reported. The meeting's agenda wasn't immediately released.
Meanwhile, a separate Russian convoy -- more than 200 trucks that Moscow says contain relief goods for civilians in war-torn eastern Ukraine -- remained parked on the Russian side of the border, waiting for Ukrainian and other inspectors to decide whether to approve the aid's entry.
That Ukraine so far has blocked the aid reflects Kiev's concerns -- held even before Thursday's reported military incursion -- that Russia might try to smuggle more military supplies.

Those concerns took on a new light when British media outlets The Guardian and The Telegraph reported that armored personnel carriers, along with other vehicles with Russian military plates, crossed the border near Donetsk, Ukraine, on Thursday night.
The Guardian reported that it witnessed 23 armored personnel carriers, in addition to other vehicles with Russian military plates, cross into Ukraine through a gap in a barbed wire fence. "Armed men were visible in the gloom by the border fence as the column moved into Ukraine," the Guardian report reads.
This is the first time foreign media recorded such an incursion, though it illustrates what Kiev has said has been happening for months -- that Russia has been sending troops and equipment to help the rebels -- Ukrainian military Col. Andriy Lysenko told reporters.
Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko told British Prime Minister David Cameron that Ukrainian forces destroyed "the majority" of the Russian vehicles, Poroshenko's office said.
Poroshenko "expressed concern over the situation on the border, particularly over the fact that the inflow of Russian arms and military machines in Ukraine through the open part of the border continued," his office said.
Lysenko said he didn't know exactly how many vehicles crossed the border, or how many Ukraine's artillery managed to destroy.

Ukraine: Most of Russian convoy destroyed

Thus, the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the Russian Federation stated that the week delay in customs clearance of humanitarian aid and the new ban on humanitarian aid convoy pass, which the Ukrainian authorities explained that they are just now intensified bombing of Lugansk - is a mockery. Prior to this, Russia portrayed respect to the desire of the Government of Ukraine to be thought of legitimate authority in separatist-controlled territories. Russia is now pretended that it remembered about who actually instead of the Ukrainian government controls the territory on which the customs office there is and through which the road to Lugansk. As a result, the separatists ordered the Ukrainian customs officers to return home and then the separatists took humanitarian aid and escort it to Lugansk on their own, without the Ukrainian officers. Now White trucks left humanitarian aid in Lugansk and returned to Russia.
In my opinion, all ended well: Lugansk residents get mobile power plants and other goods that will help them survive the war, the Ukrainian government has received a lesson that that it is necessary to be a little more realistic in their demands. This is especially important when it comes to human suffering.

Relatively flight MH-17.

"Of course murder, but we also have the crime of 'wrecking an airplane' and we could use international criminal law - that would mean possible charges of war crimes, torture and genocide."

I remembered that just at the time of the crash several combat units of the Ukrainian army was surrounded by the separatists and secessionists had to shoot down military transport aircrafts that tried to bring ammunition for the Ukrainian military units. Subsequently, the Ukrainian military really resigned, stepping into the territory of Russia and left a significant portion of their weapons to the separatists. Therefore, I refuse to claim that if the separatists had anti-aircraft missile system, capable to shoot down high-altitude aircraft, they would use it near Donetsk to repel aerial attacks. However, since there is a lot of circumstantial evidence of guilt as separatists and the Ukrainian military, as well as refutations of this evidence, I would not have to make any assumptions until the expert opinion will not be published.
In addition, the one who shot down civilian aircraft, did the same, that the United States has done over the Persian Gulf. As is the case when the United States military have destroyed a large passenger plane, confusing it with a small combat aircraft, they are not accused of any war crime or genocide if nothing else, it would be unfair to blame those who shot down flight MH-17 in that, in except that if when they shot down a plane intentionally.

About Ukraine
Ma Kemaweyan, it is true that the Communist Party of Ukraine, as well as our CPRF, in fact not the Communists, and cowards, which ready to negotiate with anyone. But there is an interesting coincidence that when they were silent, getting his share of the business and the Government of Ukraine, nobody has accused them. They began to prohibit when it took loans from the IMF and the IMF demanded to reduce social spending, when the oligarchs became heads of the individual regions of Ukraine and received a full opportunity to cash in on this, when the oligarchs emerged armed groups, they have the opportunity to order to deal with their enemies. Whoever your Communists was, their voters expect from them that they will protect the poor, stop destroying industry and turning mine-workers into the flunkey in the supermarkets, where they will not be able to form a union and to protect their rights. I do not believe in accidental coincidence between the destruction of the Communist Party of Ukraine and the fact that the oligarchs were free to loot the Ukrainian people.

There is another interesting coincidence. Why did the Nazis from other countries traveling to Ukraine to join the battalion "Azov", which take only the Nazis and who fights against separatists in support of the new Ukrainian government? For example, an article from Sweden: "Their vision of Ukraine is a fascist dictatorship"

Your economic reforms are such that they can not be carried out without terror, as in Chile during the Pinochet era. The purpose of your anti-terrorist operation is to remove those who rebelled against corruption from Kiev, and send them to the East, where they will be killed by the separatists. What is happening in Ukraine is very similar to what we had in Russia in the last years of Yeltsin. If I lived in Ukraine, I would have joined the separatists, no matter how well I would know the Ukrainian language.

[Kemaweyan]

I refuse to claim that if the separatists had anti-aircraft missile system, capable to shoot down high-altitude aircraft, they would use it near Donetsk to repel aerial attacks. However, since there is a lot of circumstantial evidence of guilt as separatists and the Ukrainian military, as well as refutations of this evidence, I would not have to make any assumptions until the expert opinion will not be published.

Please stop it. Actually everyone understands who shot down the plane. Terrorists said it themselves, Churkin in UN said that it happened accidentally. So what you need? And it does not matter how exactly they did it. The important thing is the fact that terrorists shot down the plain. That's all.

There is another interesting coincidence. Why did the Nazis from other countries traveling to Ukraine to join the battalion "Azov", which take only the Nazis and who fights against separatists in support of the new Ukrainian government? For example, an article from Sweden: "Their vision of Ukraine is a fascist dictatorship"

It's just a propaganda. It's just a opinion of one "expert". There are no facts, only words...

But there are the facts that between separatists are Nazis. I think you know what is Russian National Unity. Also there is a photo with him:



And I wrote before about another Russian Nazi who fights in Donbass.

Also there are a lot of Jews in Ukrainian government. Kolomoysky is a Jew too. How Nazis could support them? It's a madness But real Ukrainian Nazis (for example organization «Oplot» from my city, I know it very well) now fight on a side of separatists.

The purpose of your anti-terrorist operation is to remove those who rebelled against corruption from Kiev, and send them to the East, where they will be killed by the separatists. What is happening in Ukraine is very similar to what we had in Russia in the last years of Yeltsin. If I lived in Ukraine, I would have joined the separatists, no matter how well I would know the Ukrainian language.

You really believe that? There was not bigger corruption than was with Yanukovich. Also nowhere in Ukrainian was not bigger corruption than in Donbass. And those "owners" of Donbass (oligarchs from PR - Yanukovich's party) now support separatists and give them money. For example Efremov.

But now more important thing is that apparently Putin decided to begin a full-scale war. Russian army invaded into Ukraine near Novoazovsk. There were no separatists and those tanks could came from Russia only. Also Ukrainian army found documents of Russian army in captured tank, also Ukrainian army captured 10 Russian soldiers on Ukrainian territory. Russian is an aggressor and the world must react on that.

[Tsanten Eywa 'eveng]

And KGB has done some terrible things during the Soviet era. For an example here in Norway, they were gonna establish a secret base here in Norway. Lots of spy-informations has been revealed, a lot of it is in our local Norwegian newspapers. It has been a lot of discussions about it in many weeks.

If i remember correctly, wasn't Putin in KGB?
Russia is a corrupt nation.

[Kemaweyan]

If i remember correctly, wasn't Putin in KGB?

That's truth.

[Tìtstewan]

If i remember correctly, wasn't Putin in KGB? That's truth.

As far as I know, he had the KGB rank of Lieutenant Colonel.

[archaic]

Putin early in his KGB career .....

[Tsanten Eywa 'eveng]

Now it's best that Putin stops this. This is way too serious now. Both Ukraine and NATO has confirmed that atleast 1000 Russian soldiers has crossed the border over Ukraine, and it is now the Ukrainian army versus the Russian army. It is an artillery going on there now, an invasion. Why the hell is the Russians shooting at the Ukrainians? Who knows, maybe this might be some soldiers, who have broke out of the Russian army, and wants to fight alongside with the separatists? It could be that. Maybe that's why Moscow is denying they are behind it.
http://edition.cnn.com/2014/08/28/world/europe/ukraine-crisis/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

Fighting in Ukraine may be spreading

[Vawmataw]

Why the hell is the Russians shooting at the Ukrainians?

For their Almighty Putin, the one who wants more power.

[Kemaweyan]

Maybe that's why Moscow is denying they are behind it.

Moscow just lies. They said that there are not Russian troops in Crimea, but after annexation Putin said that they were there. And it is the same thing now. Putin does not want to be aggressor for the world community, but he is. It was obvious in March, but USA and EU did not stop him.

[Tìtstewan]

but USA and EU did not stop him.

How they could stop Putin without trigger the next world war?

[Kemaweyan]

How they could stop Putin without trigger the next world war?

Do you think that Putin wants new world war? No. Otherwise he could just attack USA or Chine...

He thinks that USA and other countries will do nothing, therefore he do this. However if the world community answered him adequately he would have stopped the aggression. Because world war means extermination of the humanity. And Putin too..

[baritone]

As for the battalion Azov
I saw on the site of the Ukrainian newspaper interview with the head of a battalion of Azov, where he talked about his patriotism and said that he was sentenced to prison on charges of attempted murder for nationalistic motives, and that the charges were trumped up. I saw an article on the Ukrainian site, which tells about a battalion "Azov", as he captured the Mariupol, and there was evidence that prove beyond doubt that there is really gaining first Nazi militants with military experience. So I do not doubt the veracity of the article about the Swedish Nazis, fighting for the new Ukrainian government.

About the argument that the Nazis can not fight for the profits of of Jewish businessmen.
I am a Jewish grandson, Jewish husband and father of two Jews, constantly reading the Jewish nationalist newspaper, and I would argue that Ben-Gurion was right in asserting that Ze'ev Jabotinsky is a fascist. Fascists can serve Jews, if the Jew is rich and built a reputation that he supports the state.

About MH-17

Actually everyone understands who shot down the plane.Terrorists said it themselves, Churkin in UN said that it happened accidentally.

It's all clear to you, I'm not in a hurry. I personally do not see any recognition of the crime. When the defenders of Donbass from Ukrainian invaders admit that they shot down a plane, or when it is proved differently, then we will require to bring them to justice for their crime.
If you think that it is necessary to prosecute on the most popular version, then apply it to the Ukrainian air defense. When in 2001 they shot down the plane, which was carrying children from Israel over the Black Sea, in ten years, they have proved  in court that they missile did not have a time  to fly to the aircraft, the plane was hit by some other missile, and refused to pay for the destruction of the plane.

The purpose of your anti-terrorist operation is to remove those who rebelled against corruption from Kiev,

There was not bigger corruption than was with Yanukovich.

It is a matter of faith, which does not require proof. I personally see that while Yanukovych stole, but the Ukrainian budget was ok and social spending is not reduced, and now your oligarchs come up with government spending and take from the treasury as they want, and have stolen every last penny, despite the fact that almost all of the social costs have been canceled.

Ukrainian army captured 10 Russian soldiers on Ukrainian territory.

Judging from the circumstances in which they were captured, they did not go to war. Now, if you say that this is not the rebels, and our paratroopers drove Ukrainian troops from Lugansk, this could already be believed. It remains only to extract facts that Russian paratroopers fought under Lugansk.

Russian is an aggressor and the world must react on that.

Are you saying that when the Ukrainian treasury plundered, and Ukrainians are no longer want to go to war against the separatists, then the war against separatists should lead NATO troops? Maybe NATO should also enter into the territory of Russia, to punish her for the aggression?
Then it's sad, weak Russian army could not resist the iron armadas of NATO.

All this was sad, now I want to share the fun.
http://ria.ru/infografika/20140826/1021515041.html
The top picture shows how the Ukrainian authorities imagine what territories they control and which Ukrainian troops are surrounded by separatists. Lower picture shows how the separatists imagine what territories they control and which Ukrainian troops are surrounded by separatists:

Now it becomes clear why the Ukrainian troops are crying on the Internet that they were surrounded by the separatists and is about to be destroyed, and the leadership of the Ukrainian army in no hurry to their rescue. Ukrainian generals believe that these forces are in a deep and secure the rear.
Here one investment advisor funs at how different triumphant reports of two sides of the conflict.

And those who are interested to look at the map, what territory who control whether and on what days and what battles were fought in the east of Ukraine, look at this site. Witnesses records data on this map. For residents of Ukraine this site is closed by the decision of Ukrainian special services.

P.S. That's what I do not understand, is it not possible to negotiate with the separatists? Girkin, which stands for the war to the capture of Kiev, now went to rest, it means that the separatists willing to negotiate. Maybe it's time to simply understand that they have their own fears and their own interests, and to start negotiations?

[baritone]

Signature under the picture: "Our oligarchs better than your oligarchs."

Do you think that Kolomoysky and other Ukrainian oligarchs sufficiently benefited from the sale of oil for the army, in the sale of defective body armor at inflated prices, on bribes to avoid conscription in the civil war? Is it worth to leave him almost legally kill those who interfere with their income? Is not it time to collect all incomes due to the robbery of Ukraine from Ukrainian oligarchs, who propagandized themselves as selfless patriots, in order to other oligarchs know that if they try to organize a coup, to rise above all the laws, kill their enemies, and enrich themselves at the expense of Ukraine, their lives will end with an aspen stake driven into their back?

I think it can still be done if the Ukrainians will cease to be a patriot, and instead demand an end to the civil war and negotiate with the separatists, instead of pretending that they are fighting not against the separatists, but against a foreign state.