Crimean crisis, will Crimea join Russia?

Started by Tsanten Eywa 'eveng, March 18, 2014, 02:11:46 PM

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Tsanten Eywa 'eveng

Russia is a corrupt country. A f****** corrupt country. Artillery has moved towards southeastern parts of Ukraine, Russia has kidnapped an Estonian security official, illegally annexed Crimea, artillery in the eastern parts of Ukraine and also threatened both Ukraine and the rest of Europe with nuclear. I am telling you all. This is not a new cold war. This is the start of World War III. The world peace will once again fall to pieces.



First to say, in this video you will meet the new secretary general in NATO, former PM of Norway, Jens Stoltenberg. Jens Stoltenberg will take office next month.
NATO Wales Summit - Statement by the Secretary General designate, 05 SEP 2014

Estonia accuses Russia of kidnapping security official
http://edition.cnn.com/2014/09/05/world/europe/estonia-russia-abduction/index.html?hpt=hp_t3

Estonia summoned Russia's ambassador on Friday to demand an explanation regarding what it described as the abduction of a security official near its joint border.
The news came the same day Russia announced it had detained an Estonia security officer in its northwest Pskov region, where Russian officials allege he was carrying out an undercover operation, according to a report from state-run news agency Itar-Tass.
The dueling claims follow mounting tensions between the two nations. Just days earlier, U.S. President Barack Obama visited Estonia, where he promised to protect the Baltic nation against Russian aggression.
Estonian Foreign Minister Urmas Paet called the abduction of the Internal Security Service official by unidentified individuals from Russia, near the Luhamaa border checkpoint, a "very disturbing incident."
"We expect to receive all manner of help and cooperation necessary from Russia in solving this case and bringing the Estonian citizen back to Estonia," Paet said, according to the Estonian Foreign Ministry.

NATO agrees on new 'spearhead' force to meet global threats
http://edition.cnn.com/2014/09/05/world/europe/uk-nato-summit/index.html?hpt=hp_t3

NATO members agreed Friday to form a "spearhead" force of several thousand land troops ready to deploy within a few days, NATO chief Anders Fogh Rasmussen said, as the trans-Atlantic alliance grapples with the threats posed by Russia's interference in Ukraine and the rise of ISIS in Syria and Iraq
The troops would be backed by air, sea and special forces support, he said, with a command and control center and extra equipment in Eastern Europe.
"This decision sends a clear message: NATO protects all allies at all times," Rasmussen said on the second day of a NATO summit in Newport, Wales.
"And it sends a clear message to any potential aggressor: Should you even think of attacking one ally, you will be facing the whole alliance."
The new readiness action plan, which includes proposals for more short notice exercises, is intended to help NATO respond swiftly to Russian aggression and other international conflicts.

Ukraine, rebels sign ceasefire deal as EU leaders consider sanctions on Russia
http://edition.cnn.com/2014/09/05/world/europe/ukraine-crisis/index.html?hpt=ieu_c1

Ukraine's government and separatist leaders signed a ceasefire deal Friday after talks in Belarus, raising hopes of an end to the nearly five-month conflict that has wracked eastern Ukraine.
The ceasefire went into effect at 6 p.m. local time (11 a.m. ET) on the order of Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko.
It was not immediately clear if it would hold.
Artillery fire and explosions were heard in the eastern Ukrainian city of Donetsk as of 6 p.m. local time, the city's website said.
But a CNN team in southeastern Ukraine, where Ukrainian forces and the rebels have engaged in fierce fighting this week between the Russian border and the port city of Mariupol, said that as of 20 minutes into the ceasefire period there had been no renewal of artillery fire.

President Barack Obama said he was hopeful but skeptical that a ceasefire in Ukraine would hold, questioning if pro-Russian rebels would adhere to it.
Obama, speaking at the end of a NATO summit in Wales, added that NATO was "fully united in support of Ukraine's sovereignty, independence, territorial integrity and ability to defend itself."
Member nations would send nonlethal military aid and help modernize Ukraine's security forces while the United States and European allies finalize measures "to deepen and broaden sanctions" against Russia, he said.
"Russia's aggression against Ukraine threatens our vision of a Europe that is whole, free and at peace." he said.
Speaking to reporters at the same summit, Poroshenko said the ceasefire deal was based on his peace plan and an agreement reached in a phone call this week with Russian President Vladimir Putin.



NATO Wales Summit
NATO Wales Summit - Closing press conference by NATO Secretary General, 05 SEP 2014 - Part 1/2

NATO Wales Summit - Closing press conference by NATO Secretary General, 05 SEP 2014 - Part 2/2

Vawmataw

#241
That's sad, very sad. The world will be nuked in case of nuclear war.
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Tsanten Eywa 'eveng

Quote from: Vawmataw on September 06, 2014, 08:20:00 AM
That's sad, very sad. The world will be nuked in case of nuclear war.

I know. The world peace is at stake now. If there is starting a World War III, i insist to join in the war. I am even old enough to join in the military. I would love to join in the military, but that would be in the Norwegian navy. I do really love the navy.

Tsanten Eywa 'eveng

Oh my, here is something that will get me more excited to join in the military. This is just so wrong of Russia in so many levels. How in the f*** can they do this to us? PUTIN!!!!! Stay the f*** away from Norway. Russia, the new propaganda-country. I stay with NATO, UN and the Norwegian Armed Forces.
http://barentsobserver.com/en/security/2014/09/russia-bases-high-tech-nuclear-sub-closest-norway-05-09

Russia bases high-tech nuclear sub closest to Norway


Weapon tests are completed and the submarine will soon sail towards her new homeport, less than 60 kilometres from the NATO border in the north.
What was supposed to be a revolution for the Soviet navy is finally ready for duty. The high-tech sub, filled up with advanced cruise-missiles and torpedoes, is said to be the most silent-sailing underwater warfare system ever created by humans.

K-560 "Severodvinsk" is the first of the new 4th generation nuclear powered multi-purpose submarines in the Russian navy.

Information has now been published about where "Severodvinsk" will make her home-port calls.

She is assigned to the 11th Submarine Division, berthed at the Bloshaya Lopatka bay of the Zapadnaya Litsa fjord on the Barents Sea coast of the Kola Peninsula. The crew will get apartments in Zaozyorsk, a secret navy town hidden behind the hills on the highway from Murmansk towards Norway.

The distance from the quays in Bolshaya Lopatka to the Norwegian border is less than 60 kilometres. No other places does Russia have naval tactical nuclear weapons closer to a NATO border than here. If any of the cruise-missiles on board "Severodvinsk" will be tipped with nuclear warheads is still to be answered.

The first information hinting that "Severodvinsk" would be based at Russia's nearest naval base to Norway appeared a time ago in a blogpost on Rossiskaya Voyennaya Tehnika (Russian Military Equipment). This week, the information is confirmed by the state-own news agency RIA-Novosti.

Although "Severodvinsk" is Russia's latest nuclear powered submarine, designing the vessel started in Soviet times. Construction started in 1993, but moved slowly forward during the years of economic problems in the 1990ies. New technologies, including weapons, were developed and the sub first set sail for sea trails from the yard in the city she is named after in September 2011.

The flag raising ceremony took place in Severodvinsk on June 17 this year.

By choosing Zapadnaya Litsa as homeport for "Severodvinsk", the Russian navy follows the traditions of the Soviet navy. Most other first-of-a-class and proto-type submarines have been assigned to the base since the first nuclear powered submarine, the legendary K-3 "Leninski Komsomol" sailed into the base in 1958. Others are the K-19 with the first liquid-metal cooled reactor, the deepest diving K-278 "Komsomolets", the fastest ever K-222 and not least to mention the infamous Typhoon-class, the world's largest submarines ever built.

Tsanten Eywa 'eveng

Because of Russia's actions in Ukraine, NATO has reinforced collective defense measures by increasing its air patrols over the Baltic countries and increased naval patrols in the Baltic Sea and the eastern Mediterranean. The NATO Summit in Wales last week (4-5 September) agreed to form a new high readiness force and to further step up exercises to enhance the collective defence of Allies.
NATO ships take part in multinational 'Sea Breeze' exercise in Black Sea. Three NATO ships are taking part in the multinational "Sea Breeze 2014" military exercise, which started on Monday (8 September 2014) in the Black Sea. The deployment is a demonstration of NATO's commitment to strengthen its ability to work with partner navies.
http://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/news_112997.htm?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=smc&utm_campaign=140908+sea+breeze


baritone

Russia is something like Honduras, a third world country in which workers receiving paltry wages, make goods for export abroad. Unlike Honduras, Russia has science and engineers who are able to create decent weapons for its army. Due to the fact that Russia has its own army, and not a member of NATO, it has the ability to negotiate better deals than Honduras and other countries of the Third World. China's economy is arranged the same way, its people can not buy the products that they produce, but China has a large army.

Russia is a source of instability of the existing world order. Threat from Russia is easy to remove, because its army is not strong enough to protect Russia from serious threats, and President Putin cunning but cowardly. President Putin is similar to Napoleon III, and his story will end the same way as Napoleon III. Russia certainly give up and become a normal country of the third world, and it will be danger for no one. After Russia, the world will destroy the danger of rogue states, Cuba, Venezuela, Ecuador. Robots will maintain order instead of people, the rich will build a space station and settle to live in it, leaving the poor to live in a crap world. And then all will be safe and stable, and people will only hope that terrorists will break this world.

Ukrainians now show the world an example of the struggle of ordinary people against the state of injustice. Unfortunately, this example shows that people to be able fight the  government of bad guys, they have to use the help of other scoundrels. The history of the struggle of Ukrainians against the government of robbers is not finished yet, I hope that we will see in this fight something reassuring.

Tìtstewan

Quote from: baritone on September 08, 2014, 02:49:28 PM
Russia is something like Honduras, a third world country in which workers receiving paltry wages, make goods for export abroad. Unlike Honduras, Russia has science and engineers who are able to create decent weapons for its army. Due to the fact that Russia has its own army, and not a member of NATO, it has the ability to negotiate better deals than Honduras and other countries of the Third World. China's economy is arranged the same way, its people can not buy the products that they produce, but China has a large army.
Russia a third world country? There are a truck load of differences between a third world country and Russia (which - as well as China - is usually rated as a second world country). They have, of course, large army but their technology is not that modern like those from the NATO. But army's technology level is pointless if their enemies use asymetrical war.
Also, Russia and China have nukes. So, NOBODY with enough brain would start intentionally a war with a nation that own nukes. Simply because, in critical situations human tend or rather there is a high risk to do fatal mistakes to hit the wrong button which would change our life on this planet for a long time. I know, nobody want this but, as long as they have nukes there will be the risk for the most stupid action that a human can do.

We have already a war ongoing: it's in the economy. The sanctions cause that people will lose their jobs, not only in Russia, also in the EU states. Corruption is everywhere and it will increase with more difficulties in the economy because the companies and people want to survive as long as possible. If people have no job - therefore no money and the standard of living becomes bad, some people tend to become radical like those skxawngs in Northern Iraq and Syria and many other places on this world and, also shown by history.
It is really necessary to take a path that could bring us those situations here in Europe, Russia and other countries?

Quote from: Tsanten Eywa 'eveng on September 06, 2014, 09:19:04 PM
Oh my, here is something that will get me more excited to join in the military. This is just so wrong of Russia in so many levels. How in the f*** can they do this to us? PUTIN!!!!! Stay the f*** away from Norway. Russia, the new propaganda-country. I stay with NATO, UN and the Norwegian Armed Forces.
They did not crossed the Norway's border, so there is no reason to get excited. I think we don't need an atmosphere of "prepearing a war". This happened in the first years before the WW1's and WW2's start...

And this:
A. Einstein said, I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones.

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Tsanten Eywa 'eveng

Quote from: Tìtstewan on September 08, 2014, 04:46:29 PM
Quote from: Tsanten Eywa 'eveng on September 06, 2014, 09:19:04 PM
Oh my, here is something that will get me more excited to join in the military. This is just so wrong of Russia in so many levels. How in the f*** can they do this to us? PUTIN!!!!! Stay the f*** away from Norway. Russia, the new propaganda-country. I stay with NATO, UN and the Norwegian Armed Forces.
They did not crossed the Norway's border, so there is no reason to get excited. I think we don't need an atmosphere of "prepearing a war". This happened in the first years before the WW1's and WW2's start...

And this:
A. Einstein said, I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones.

Just to say, i don't hate Russians, but i don't agree what Putin has done. It is a crime. I think Putin is a great leader, but he better start understanding what kind of world we live in. I also recommend our world leaders to put the weapons down, so with the pro-Russian rebels, and since Russia has nukes, i would like to recommend Putin to disarm them. Destroy the nukes. Recommend all countries in the entire world to disarm their nukes, and that includes USA, even if they are hiding it. There's no need to hide them. Also we also need to get a better relationship with North-Korea, even if we don't take them seriously. They need to let the past behind them. We all should do that. It's time to start over, rewrite history, make the world a better place to live in, continue with our lives, evolve the space exploration to a new level. Decrease the world's military budget, help the people who is in need for help.
It's the 21st century. It's time to forget the past, and live on, day by day. Live every second, every minute. I am every interested that the budget for space exploration could be increased. There's a lot of people who doesn't want that, but it is better that we start understanding our place in the universe, in technology and intelligence. If we start with this right now, we will already have explored our solarsystem in about 20 years. It is also a reason why ESA(European Space Agency) was formed. It was to gather the European countries to explore space together, not apart. It is also that reason why the International Space Station were built. To gather nations together so the whole world can explore space together.

Tìtstewan

QuoteDestroy the nukes
This will not happen, I'm afraid:
I read in the news, that Russia has tested an intercontinental nuclear missile...

Russia tests ICBM as Putin says nuclear deterrent must be maintained

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baritone

Quote from: Tsanten Eywa 'eveng on September 08, 2014, 07:51:10 PM
Quote from: Tìtstewan on September 08, 2014, 04:46:29 PM
Quote from: Tsanten Eywa 'eveng on September 06, 2014, 09:19:04 PM
Oh my, here is something that will get me more excited to join in the military. This is just so wrong of Russia in so many levels. How in the f*** can they do this to us? PUTIN!!!!! Stay the f*** away from Norway. Russia, the new propaganda-country. I stay with NATO, UN and the Norwegian Armed Forces.
They did not crossed the Norway's border, so there is no reason to get excited. I think we don't need an atmosphere of "prepearing a war". This happened in the first years before the WW1's and WW2's start...

And this:
A. Einstein said, I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones.

Just to say, i don't hate Russians, but i don't agree what Putin has done. It is a crime. I think Putin is a great leader, but he better start understanding what kind of world we live in. I also recommend our world leaders to put the weapons down, so with the pro-Russian rebels, and since Russia has nukes, i would like to recommend Putin to disarm them. Destroy the nukes. Recommend all countries in the entire world to disarm their nukes, and that includes USA, even if they are hiding it. There's no need to hide them. Also we also need to get a better relationship with North-Korea, even if we don't take them seriously. They need to let the past behind them. We all should do that. It's time to start over, rewrite history, make the world a better place to live in, continue with our lives, evolve the space exploration to a new level. Decrease the world's military budget, help the people who is in need for help.
It's the 21st century. It's time to forget the past, and live on, day by day. Live every second, every minute. I am every interested that the budget for space exploration could be increased. There's a lot of people who doesn't want that, but it is better that we start understanding our place in the universe, in technology and intelligence. If we start with this right now, we will already have explored our solarsystem in about 20 years. It is also a reason why ESA(European Space Agency) was formed. It was to gather the European countries to explore space together, not apart. It is also that reason why the International Space Station were built. To gather nations together so the whole world can explore space together.
I completely agree with everything said here. When Putin sent paratroopers to block the military units of Ukraine in the Crimea, it was a crime. And the fact that he armed his supporters in the Crimea, is also a crime. And it must be a long discussion before the referendum on secession, because it is a complex issue with long-term consequences. I agree that the international community should punish Russia for its crimes. But residents of the Crimea are still happy with the accession to Russia, despite the blockade.

We live in a world of injustice. In our world international business dictates the governments. No matter how bad the government, but it is somehow responsible to its people, and the business is not responsible to anyone.

The world needs a country that creates instability, which could provide weapons to countries that do not wish to live according to the rules dictated by international corporations. If this role will be played by Russia, self-serving and tending to their own interests country, it would mean a lot of hope that it will not come to a nuclear war.

It is very sad that the people of the east of Ukraine, who rebelled against the oligarchs, became dependent on the supply of equipment from Putin, and will now be able to realize their goals only to the extent that it is in Russia's interests.
Quote from: Tìtstewan on September 08, 2014, 04:46:29 PM
Russia a third world country? There are a truck load of differences between a third world country and Russia (which - as well as China - is usually rated as a second world country).
Second world country disappeared along with the Soviet Union. Maybe I'm wrong, calling Russia a third world country, but it looks like a third world country, because increasing the income of people in Russia do not increase business revenue by increasing the demand for industrial products.

I see how Russia is making great efforts to increase the connection of his economy with China. Russia wants to reduce their vulnerability to economic warfare.

Vawmataw

#250
Dear Ukrainian rebels,
If you love Russia, just move to Russia. Putin will be happy to welcome you. And there's a lot of space, so you can choose where to live.

Sincerely,
The rest of the world
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archaic

Dear Putin
When you're the bully in the school yard and you want the other kids to do what you say you just make them believe that you will hurt/embarrass them if they don't.

Now you are no longer in the school yard, you no longer threaten to hurt/embarrass other countries if they don't give you what you want
You are in charge of a massive inventory of nuclear weapons, so should you get angry and launch them World War III will be short and ultimately futile.
In the short term a small number of survivors can hold out in bunkers, in the medium term all but the best bunker complexes will fail to provide extended duration facilities for their inhabitants.
In the long term nothing lasts forever, how will you provide heat, light and power for decades, maybe centuries of underground living?
How would your decedents cope on a world bathed in kilatones of fallout?
How would your decedents cope on a world carpeted by inedibly radioactive plants, populated by inedibly radioactive animals, washed with lethally radioactive water?
How would your decedents cope on a barren and utterly lifeless surface?
How long would your decedents be able to breed before the inherent problems of too small a gene pool manifests itself?


Your super weapons of total armageddon are so powerful they are unusable and are therefore pointless.
Don't rattle the nuclear sabre, because it is by it's very definition a very obvious bluff.
You have reached a point in life where you should be considering what legacy you will build to leave for future generations to remember you by.
If you dream of reassembling the soviet union, then remember the states you would re-assimilate have thrown off the yoke of Moscow control once already.
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Tsanten Eywa 'eveng

Is it now over or what? Ukraine's president Petro Poroshenko has granted the rebels a self-rule of Donetsk for 3 years.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-29220885

Vawmataw

Maybe he's tired of that. ''Go play there, I'll bring you back in 3 years.''
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baritone

Quote from: Vawmataw on September 16, 2014, 04:13:56 PM
Maybe he's tired of that. ''Go play there, I'll bring you back in 3 years.''
This is true. The Ukrainian Foreign Ministry has demanded to stop sending humanitarian aid to the Donbass. One said that Russia now paves separate gas pipe and power line to Donbass. For me, it will be perceived by the Government of Ukraine as a mockery.
Quote from: Vawmataw on September 12, 2014, 04:27:21 PM
Dear Ukrainian rebels,
If you love Russia, just move to Russia. Putin will be happy to welcome you. And there's a lot of space, so you can choose where to live.

Sincerely,
The rest of the world
When separatist militants commanders resent the fact that they were forced to abandon the separation from Ukraine, they say they want to secede from Ukraine to get out of the power of the Ukrainian oligarchs. I doubt that they considered that our Russian oligarchs better than Ukrainian oligarchs.

Tsanten Eywa 'eveng

Thousands of people have gathered in Moscow to protest against Kremlin because of Moscow denies any involvement in Ukraine's crisis. Also USA has refused Ukraine's request on weapons, since military power can't solve the crisis alone.

The United States has sent nonlethal aid such as blankets and night night vision goggles, but Poroshenko requested help arming his troops -- a request that once again was rebuffed.
Poroshenko, who also met with U.S. President Barack Obama, told CNN's Wolf Blitzer that Ukraine was "fully satisfied" with the offer of U.S. help received.
He also stressed that the crisis in eastern Ukraine could not be resolved by military means alone.
http://edition.cnn.com/2014/09/20/world/europe/ukraine-crisis/index.html?hpt=hp_t3

Thousands protest Russia's Ukraine policy

baritone

Quote from: Tsanten Eywa 'eveng on September 22, 2014, 01:25:46 AM
Thousands of people have gathered in Moscow to protest against Kremlin because of Moscow denies any involvement in Ukraine's crisis.
I received an invitation to participate in this demonstration, but declined, because I know that the organizers and they will demand at the rally. Everything turned out exactly as I expected. When they come to establish his "Brave New World" in Russia, I will send the family to flee to Israel, and ask a friend, who was convicted for terrorism, so that I could join his guerrilla unit. I hope we will not have to fight these crooks in alliance with supporters of Putin.




This summer the media reported that Ukrainian separatists killed a citizen of the United States, which joined a volunteer battalion to fought for the new Ukrainian government. Recently, the media found another American citizen who is fighting in the separatist militia, and took him for an interview.

Interview with a volunteer "Hunter" from the State of Illinois
It is interesting that he is a member of the battalion "Vostok", which was established by Khodakovsky. Khodakovsky was an officer of the Security Service, he was the first who organized the capture of an administrative building in eastern Ukraine. Khodakovsky now the only one of authoritative separatist militia commanders, who thinks that the separatists must conclude confederal agreement with Ukraine.

Kemaweyan

There is government of Ukraine, there are Ukrainian laws. If anyone come here to fight and government agrees, then it's legal. Otherwise it's a crime. So that US citizen who fought against separatists is not criminal, but Russian citizens (and anyone else) who fight against Ukraine - they are criminal and should be punished in accordance with the law.
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archaic

I cry possible fake.

There are many in the Russian military who speak English, some with their original home accents, but some are virtually flawless, some are even able to accurately mimic the accent of a specific US state.

There are sufficient questionable pronunciations in his speech that it raises the very real possibility that 'Hunter' is not genuine American.

But of course, I could be wrong.
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baritone

Quote from: Kemaweyan on September 23, 2014, 07:00:26 AM
There is government of Ukraine, there are Ukrainian laws. If anyone come here to fight and government agrees, then it's legal. Otherwise it's a crime. So that US citizen who fought against separatists is not criminal, but Russian citizens (and anyone else) who fight against Ukraine - they are criminal and should be punished in accordance with the law.
I totally agree with you.
Moreover, the Ukrainian government have the right to hire foreign private military corporations for punishment of separatists. One say that the Ukrainian government hired soldier of fortune when it experiencing problems with the loyalty of his security forces immediately after the coup. One say that the police detachment, who committed the murder of the leader of the fascist Sashko Bily during arrest, was composed from the soldiers of fortune, and not police officers. The conclusion is: do not mess with separatism, it is necessary to organize a coup d'etat, and to subdue the army.
Quote from: archaic on September 23, 2014, 02:07:24 PM
There are many in the Russian military who speak English, some with their original home accents, but some are virtually flawless, some are even able to accurately mimic the accent of a specific US state.

There are sufficient questionable pronunciations in his speech that it raises the very real possibility that 'Hunter' is not genuine American.
Anything is possible, but is it too hard? There are quite a well-known American citizens (Mickey Rourke, Jeffrey Monson and so on), who for various reasons approve the policy of enemies of the present world order, so from the hundreds of millions of citizens of the United States you can find people with any convictions, some of them might decide that the support of the separatists in the Ukraine is the duty of his conscience. Maybe his parents were from the Ukraine?




P.S. Sergei Udaltsov, one of the most implacable enemies of the Russian government, wrote from prison that he condemns the demonstration in support of the new government in Ukraine. Liberals began to claim that Putin bribed Sergei Udaltsov, or that Udaltsov scared, but it's a lie, because we all know that Udaltsov hates Ukrainian oligarchs no less than the Russian oligarchs.