Author Topic: Crimean crisis, will Crimea join Russia?  (Read 10093 times)

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Offline Tsanten Eywa 'eveng

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Re: Crimean crisis, will Crimea join Russia?
« Reply #80 on: May 09, 2014, 08:59:29 pm »
Here you see President Vladimir Putin arriving Crimea at the anniversary of Victory Day. This video showing President Vladimir Putin in the streets of Sevastopol
http://edition.cnn.com/2014/05/09/world/europe/ukraine-crisis/index.html?hpt=hp_t2



Russian President Vladimir Putin arrived in Crimea on Friday to take part in Victory Day celebrations in Sevastopol, in what is his first visit to the disputed territory since Russia annexed it from Ukraine.
The President arrived in the port of Sevastopol by sea, in an event televised by Russian state TV, and watched while flanked by senior officers as Russian warships took part in a naval display in the Black Sea.
The military parades, held each year to mark the defeat of Nazi Germany, come amid soaring tensions in eastern Ukraine, where pro-Russian separatists are planning a weekend referendum on autonomy.
At least seven people were killed and 39 others were injured in clashes between separatists and Ukrainian government forces in the flashpoint southeastern city of Mariupol, the Donetsk regional health department said Friday.

Interior Minister Arsen Avakov put the toll higher in a post on his official Facebook page, saying about 20 militants had been killed and four captured, while one member of the armed forces was dead and five injured.
In Washington, the White House took notice of Putin's visit and reiterated its rejection of Crimea's annexation.
"Such a visit will only serve to fuel tensions," National Security Council spokeswoman Laura Lucas Magnuson said.
In Sevastopol, which hosts a key Russian naval base, crowds packed the shores to witness the show of Russia's military might. Besides the warships that took part in the sea, dozens of military aircraft roared overhead.
Putin paid tribute to Sevastopol's long military record as he addressed servicemen in the harbor, and he said he was sure that 2014 would become known in history as the year Crimea's people decided to return to Russia and the memory of their ancestors.
"There is a lot of work to be done, but we will overcome all the difficulties because we are together. This means we have become even stronger, and I congratulate you on the great victory," he said.
Putin shook hands with servicemen after his remarks, before walking to barriers where he was greeted by screaming crowds.
An earlier military parade by land vehicles through the city also attracted big numbers, with the turnout probably boosted by rumors that Putin might attend.
The Russian President's first Victory Day appearance was in Moscow, where the annual display of nationalistic fervor was heightened by Russia's annexation of Crimea.
Tanks, rocket launchers and even intercontinental ballistic missiles were paraded through the capital's Red Square in a Soviet-style show of military might, as tens of thousands of people watched and cheered, waving Russian flags.
In televised remarks there, Putin hailed his nation's "all-conquering patriotism."
Meanwhile, a live video stream from the Ukrainian city of Mariupol showed a tense situation with gunfire and black smoke in the streets.

Avakov, on his Facebook page, said about 60 "terrorists," armed with automatic weapons, had launched an attack on Mariupol's police department.
This turned into a "full-scale military clash" inside the building, he said, with army, national guard and special forces units involved.
As a result, he said, "a significant part of the terrorist group has been destroyed." Others had abandoned their weapons and disappeared into residential areas, he said.
The municipal building is in flames, he added.
Earlier, a member of parliament posted on his Facebook account that separatists had blockaded themselves inside the police headquarters, surrounded by Ukrainian forces. Three "casualties" were reported among the separatists, and some Ukrainian officers were hurt, lawmaker Oleg Lyashko said.
CNN is not able independently to verify either account at this time.
Live video from Mariupol showed what appeared to be bloody footprints and blood splatters at several scenes in the city center, while people were taking cover at the sound of what appeared to be bursts of gunfire.
Irina Voropaeva, who is one of the leaders of the pro-Russian camp in Mariupol, told CNN there were two hotspots in the city.
She said it was unclear what was unfolding at the main police station. But, she said, the Ukrainian military is in the city center and she had been told that the city hall building is on fire. She added that she could see smoke and hear explosions.
Mariupol has become a flashpoint in the standoff between Ukrainian forces and the separatists. Five pro-Russian activists were killed overnight Wednesday when Ukrainian forces attacked barricades on the outskirts of Mariupol, a spokeswoman for the pro-Russian camp said.
Ukrainian forces also continue to surround the town of Slovyansk, a stronghold for pro-Russian militants.
Chaotic transition
A large majority in Sevastopol, as well as across the Crimean Peninsula, voted in favor of seceding from Ukraine and joining Russia in a controversial referendum in March. Moscow's annexation of the Black Sea territory, which was part of Russia until 1954 and has a majority ethnic Russian population, soon followed.
Sevastopol residents told a CNN team early Friday that they were proud and happy to be part of Russia again.
Their enthusiasm comes despite a messy, sometimes chaotic, process of transition and the continued presence on the streets of local "self-defense" units, or militias, known as the "men in green."
Not everyone is delighted by Russia's annexation of Crimea, however. The indigenous ethnic minority Tatar population opposed the move.
One local Tatar leader, Abduraman Egiz, told CNN he was beaten up by a group of "men in green" after they demanded to see his identification documents.
"We as the community, we cannot guarantee the security of our people," he said.
Authorities in Ukraine scaled back Victory Day events in the capital, Kiev, and elsewhere, anxious to avoid any big celebrations or demonstrations of support for Russia that could spark violence.
Odessa and Kharkiv canceled all big public events, while Luhansk asked groups to avoid gathering in the city. The city of Donetsk, however, was pushing ahead with events.

Less than two months after Crimea was wrested from Ukraine's grasp, there are fears that other parts of the country could go the same way.
Pro-Russian separatists in eastern Ukraine said Thursday that they had decided to go ahead with a Sunday referendum on greater local powers, defying a call by Putin to postpone the vote.
Putin had urged the pro-Russian sympathizers to delay the referendum to give dialogue "the conditions it needs to have a chance."
But representatives from the council of the self-declared Donetsk People's Republic and separatists from Luhansk told reporters they had voted to press ahead with the vote.
The West has strongly opposed the move.
In a statement Friday, French Foreign Minister Laurent Fabius condemned the pro-Russian separatists for holding "illegal referendums."
Fabius, who spoke by phone with Ukrainian Prime Minister Arseniy Yatsenyuk, also reiterated France's determination to find a political solution to the crisis in Ukraine.
The immediate priority is to de-escalate the situation, engage in a national dialogue and prepare for the May 25 elections, Fabius said.
"On the local 'referenda,' we strongly emphasize that they should not take place -- neither on 11 May nor at any later date," said Maja Kocijancic, spokeswoman for the European Union's top diplomat, Catherine Ashton. "Such unauthorized local 'referenda' have no democratic legitimacy and can only lead to further escalation."
U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry spoke by phone with both Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov and Yatsenyuk on Thursday, State Department spokeswoman Jen Psaki said.

Offline Tsanten Eywa 'eveng

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Re: Crimean crisis, will Crimea join Russia?
« Reply #81 on: May 12, 2014, 10:50:57 am »
Nearly 90% of the voters in the Donetsk region in Ukraine declares independence from Ukraine. Luhansk region also declares independence from Ukraine, but there has not yet been any voting there. The Ukrainian gouvernment declares the voting in the Dontesk region as illegal.
http://edition.cnn.com/2014/05/12/world/europe/ukraine-crisis/index.html?hpt=hp_t2




Flag of Donetsk People's Republic
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donetsk_People's_Republic

Offline Raiden

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Re: Crimean crisis, will Crimea join Russia?
« Reply #82 on: May 12, 2014, 05:04:26 pm »
This is so stupid.

Someone needs to reminds Russia that it's 2014, the cold war and the other wars and bulls*** are over, and they need to grow up.
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Offline Kemaweyan

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Re: Crimean crisis, will Crimea join Russia?
« Reply #83 on: May 12, 2014, 06:20:08 pm »
Nearly 90% of the voters in the Donetsk region in Ukraine declares independence from Ukraine.

That's a fake. Look at this map:



That illegal referendum was only on red regions. Is that a majority? Also there was a lot of man with weapon. Could the people vote free in that situation? Also bulletins was printed just on printer. Anyone can print that with any votes... We all may understand that it is a fake. Anyone can tell any results of such "referendums"...
« Last Edit: May 12, 2014, 06:26:32 pm by Kemaweyan »
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Offline Tsanten Eywa 'eveng

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Re: Crimean crisis, will Crimea join Russia?
« Reply #84 on: May 12, 2014, 06:29:36 pm »
And that is what many was worried about, that the voting was fake, and CNN confirmed that there are voters who were voting more than one time. That's totally illegal.

Offline Kemaweyan

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Re: Crimean crisis, will Crimea join Russia?
« Reply #85 on: May 12, 2014, 07:07:11 pm »
CNN confirmed that there are voters who were voting more than one time. That's totally illegal.

Right. Also there was at least 10.000 filled-in bulletins before the voting. http://un.ua/eng/article/508917.html
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Re: Crimean crisis, will Crimea join Russia?
« Reply #86 on: May 12, 2014, 07:19:00 pm »
CNN confirmed that there are voters who were voting more than one time. That's totally illegal.

Right. Also there was at least 10.000 filled-in bulletins before the voting. http://un.ua/eng/article/508917.html

And Russia says they respects the vote
http://edition.cnn.com/video/?/video/world/2014/05/12/lok-chance-russia-ukraine-vote.cnn&hpt=hp_t1&from_homepage=yes&video_referrer=http%3A%2F%2Fedition.cnn.com%2F

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Re: Crimean crisis, will Crimea join Russia?
« Reply #87 on: May 12, 2014, 07:40:51 pm »
It was obvious... >:(
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Re: Crimean crisis, will Crimea join Russia?
« Reply #88 on: May 12, 2014, 08:06:46 pm »
I think, everybody know that that "vote" is so faked that it hurts the eyes...
They think, they could do the same method like at crimea... ::) ::)

CNN confirmed that there are voters who were voting more than one time. That's totally illegal.

Right. Also there was at least 10.000 filled-in bulletins before the voting. http://un.ua/eng/article/508917.html

And Russia says they respects the vote
http://edition.cnn.com/video/?/video/world/2014/05/12/lok-chance-russia-ukraine-vote.cnn&hpt=hp_t1&from_homepage=yes&video_referrer=http%3A%2F%2Fedition.cnn.com%2F
...no surprise.
It would be nice, if he (Putin) could have the whole industy and resources of the East Ukraine...

And this:
It was obvious... >:(

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Re: Crimean crisis, will Crimea join Russia?
« Reply #89 on: May 12, 2014, 09:43:19 pm »
if the majority of the voters in he Donetsk and Luhansk region wishes to join Russia, then that will happen on May 18. Both of these regions will have a new referenderum where if the voters want to join Russia or not.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-27360146

Offline baritone

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Re: Crimean crisis, will Crimea join Russia?
« Reply #90 on: May 13, 2014, 02:55:32 am »
Now everything is not so bad.
In Kharkov, the majority did not support the separatists and it will remain as part of the Ukraine.
Police and army forces of south-east of Ukraine easily agree to serve the Donetsk Republic, so it will be no more civilian casualties.
By the way, the separatists in Mariupol told reporters that no one captured the police station. They say that the police arrange a riot against the new chief, because they did not like his orders about the celebration of May 9. When the National Guard heard about it, it shot police station with canons.

The worst will be later.
Ukraine now has a lot of patriotic young people, ready to fight internal enemies of Ukraine. Oligarch Kolomoysky now actively sponsoring the creation of combat units of these young people. Oligarchs generally get much more power over Ukraine than before. Poverty in Ukraine will grow because IMF loans are too small to consumer society in Ukraine worked fine. My friend from Ukraine, who runs a news service, says never been so afraid to publish anything that the authorities would not have liked.
All my friends think that in Ukraine will be something like what has been in Chile under Pinochet.
And when against Russia will begin serious sanctions that can weaken its economy, it will start the same process as in Ukraine, although to a lesser extent. Our fascists is not weaker than in Ukraine, Ukrainian patriots will help them, so I regret that I did not receive military training to fight against them in the case of a revolution.

P.S. Ukraine should give a lot of money, several times more than it is offered now to avoid turning it into something similar to Chile during the Pinochet. That's what we should think, everything else is nothing compared to this.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2014, 03:55:24 am by baritone »

Offline Kemaweyan

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Re: Crimean crisis, will Crimea join Russia?
« Reply #91 on: May 13, 2014, 06:17:02 am »
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Re: Crimean crisis, will Crimea join Russia?
« Reply #92 on: May 13, 2014, 11:21:55 am »
Separatists tell a result in 100.63% votes ;D

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/ukraine-crisis-a-country-is-born--after-a-vote-by-10063-per-cent-of-its-population-9359411.html

Does anyone think that it was true referendum?
=
Absolutely. There has been a vote, and 95% of the population living on Crimea wants to join Russia, and this has caused many powerful leaders in the world very pissed.
That "vote" was so manipulated... The lastest census about Crimea says, that there live 58% Russians, 24% Ukrainian, 12% crimean Tatars and 8% others. 82% were voting. So how a result with 97% is possible? I can't believe that e.g. the ukrainian citizen have also voted to join Russia...
I'm not sure if this page (if someone can russian...) is just only a propaganda page by the opposition...:
474,137 people from Sevastopol were meant to have ballots, but at the end of last year, public census data put the voting-age population at 385,462. Where did the extra 88,675 votes come from?

As true as that one in crimea?

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Re: Crimean crisis, will Crimea join Russia?
« Reply #93 on: May 13, 2014, 11:34:54 am »
What did you expect? From what I have heard so far there were no controls or whatsoever (people could vote multiple times). Reminds me of "votes" in North Korea and not of anything I would accept as legitimate. Honestly, I don't know what those people are expecting. Peace and sudden wealth for everyone just because they join Russian Federation? By the way, that would not have happened when joining the EU either.

World peace is a fairy tale told by naive people, it would require everyone to play by the rules -- but that won't happen. You always have some dorks playing by their own rules and you just need a tiny amount of them to endanger whole countries. And usually you can't negotiate with that kind of people. They have their own point of view and everything else is wrong, no room for compromises. Look at terrorists like the Boko Haram who kidnapped those school girls in Nigeria. The only way to get this kind of people to play by the rules is by extinction, as hard as that sounds.

Offline archaic

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Re: Crimean crisis, will Crimea join Russia?
« Reply #94 on: May 13, 2014, 01:09:36 pm »
I have a vague memory of someone somewhere saying something like .....

Quote

This is how it's done. When people are sitting on s*** that you want, you make them your enemy, then you're justified in taking it.






This is so stupid.

Someone needs to reminds Russia that it's 2014, the cold war and the other wars and bulls*** are over, and they need to grow up.
Unfortunately Russia holds all the cards, it supplies much of Europe with oil and propane.
If you piss off Russia, they turn off the pipeline, a great many power outages will result!
This is not the only ace in Russia's hand .....

Russia targets space projects in response to US high-tech sanctions

Russia will bar the United States from using Russian-made rocket engines for military satellite launches, Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin said on May 13, retaliating for sanctions on high-tech equipment which Washington has imposed over the Ukraine crisis. He also said Russia would reject a U.S. request to prolong the use of the International Space Station beyond 2020.


It was a question of time that this happens...
« Last Edit: May 13, 2014, 02:34:26 pm by archaic »
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Offline Kemaweyan

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Re: Crimean crisis, will Crimea join Russia?
« Reply #95 on: May 13, 2014, 01:12:36 pm »
As true as that one in crimea?

Even more "true", I think... ;D
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Offline baritone

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Re: Crimean crisis, will Crimea join Russia?
« Reply #96 on: May 14, 2014, 02:53:53 am »
Separatists tell a result in 100.63% votes ;D

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/ukraine-crisis-a-country-is-born--after-a-vote-by-10063-per-cent-of-its-population-9359411.html

Does anyone think that it was true referendum?
Anybody doubted that under the anti-terrorist operation no one can honestly hold a referendum?
Right. Also there was at least 10.000 filled-in bulletins before the voting. http://un.ua/eng/article/508917.html
I watched the honesty of elections to the State Duma and the Russian President. I do not want to say that I'm a big expert on methods of election fraud, but in those circumstances no one would falsify the vote, throwing pre-marked ballots in the ballot box. I personally doubt the reliability of the voting results because separatists did not have have access to latest voter lists and they allow to vote for those who shows a passport.

IMHO, anybody can be sure that where reporters watched ballot, voters voted for Donetsk Republic, but nobody know how many voters who were against the separatists and stayed home.

But it is does not matter, because the referendum was held not to have us believe that Ukrainians support separatists, but with the aim to encourage his supporters, who are in the local government and in the police, to formally obey Donetsk republic.
Russia targets space projects in response to US high-tech sanctions

Russia will bar the United States from using Russian-made rocket engines for military satellite launches, Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin said on May 13, retaliating for sanctions on high-tech equipment which Washington has imposed over the Ukraine crisis. He also said Russia would reject a U.S. request to prolong the use of the International Space Station beyond 2020.
I knew that Rogozin is extreme nationalist, but did not know that he is a fool. There is no doubt that the problems in cooperation with NASA and space launches is the result of provocation by a private space corporation that wants to expand its market. Rogozin was stupid enough to succumb to them.

Offline Kemaweyan

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Re: Crimean crisis, will Crimea join Russia?
« Reply #97 on: May 14, 2014, 03:37:56 am »
Anybody doubted that under the anti-terrorist operation no one can honestly hold a referendum?

And this too. So could this "referendum" be legal and could its "results" be true? Surely NO.
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Offline archaic

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Re: Crimean crisis, will Crimea join Russia?
« Reply #98 on: May 14, 2014, 01:31:31 pm »
How many former communist nations that border Russia will now feel forced to consider whether they should expel citizens of Russian decent from their country?
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Offline baritone

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Re: Crimean crisis, will Crimea join Russia?
« Reply #99 on: May 15, 2014, 02:08:16 am »
How many former communist nations that border Russia will now feel forced to consider whether they should expel citizens of Russian decent from their country?
Ukraine is not like Georgia.
There was no Russian citizens in the Crimea, and separatists in eastern Ukraine are Ukrainians too.
There was many Russian citizens in Georgia, but residents of South Ossetia, part of Georgia, took Russian citizenship to be employed in Russia. Ther are many Russian citizens in Tajikistan, Kazakhstan and other former Soviet republics of Central Asia, but they also take Russian citizenship to work in Russia, and the governments of these countries are satisfied with this. Many non-citizens in the Baltic States, but these governments intentionally do not give citizenship to Russian-speaking, and want to expel him out of their country.
So that the Ukrainian events will not change anything.

P.S. Donetsk Republic claim that his army recorded in 25,000 people and it is now trained. If they will arm it, then oligarch Kolomoisky will have to forget about the loss due to the destruction of ATMs and bank branches in southwestern Ukraine.
I think that "Donetsk separatists" are also want to fight for a united Ukraine.

 

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