Crimean crisis, will Crimea join Russia?

Started by Tsanten Eywa 'eveng, March 18, 2014, 02:11:46 PM

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Tsanten Eywa 'eveng

Absolutely. There has been a vote, and 95% of the population living on Crimea wants to join Russia, and this has caused many powerful leaders in the world very pissed.
President Barack Obama are really pissed. He is about to respond in a military action, so the European Union. China says they are supporting Russia.

In the time of the Soviet Union, Crimea was part of the Russian Empire, but later Russia gave away Crimea as a gift to Ukraine.
There are many different reasons why Crimea will be a part of Russia. Some of them are that most of the population there are Russians.

There is not known that Russia's president Vladimir Putin wants to take control over other regions in Ukraine, but there are some rumors he are missing the old time of the Soviet Union. Today Putin signed an agreement where Crimea joins Russia.

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/03/16/world/europe/ukraine-crisis/


I am against Putin's actions to make Crimea a part of Russia.


Ukraine: Robbery on international scale

Kremlin: Crimea now part of Russia

Tìtstewan

#1
Quote from: Tsanten Eywa 'eveng on March 18, 2014, 02:11:46 PM
Absolutely. There has been a vote, and 95% of the population living on Crimea wants to join Russia, and this has caused many powerful leaders in the world very pissed.
That "vote" was so manipulated... The lastest census about Crimea says, that there live 58% Russians, 24% Ukrainian, 12% crimean Tatars and 8% others. 82% were voting. So how a result with 97% is possible? I can't believe that e.g. the ukrainian citizen have also voted to join Russia...
I'm not sure if this page (if someone can russian...) is just only a propaganda page by the opposition...:
474,137 people from Sevastopol were meant to have ballots, but at the end of last year, public census data put the voting-age population at 385,462. Where did the extra 88,675 votes come from?

Quote from: Tsanten Eywa 'eveng on March 18, 2014, 02:11:46 PM
China says they are supporting Russia.
China is usually saying to respect the intergity of a country, also China was the country who hasn't say nothing at the UN resolution vote last weekend. They was quiet, interestingly...

Quote from: Tsanten Eywa 'eveng on March 18, 2014, 02:11:46 PM
There are many different reasons why Crimea will be a part of Russia. Some of them are that most of the population there are Russians.
Crimea was owned by many countries in his history.
As from a Russian point of view, they would not like to see their Black Sea Fleet surrounded by an "in future" EU/NATO country. Also the Russians don't have to sell gas 30% cheaper to the Ukrainians anymore...

Quote from: Tsanten Eywa 'eveng on March 18, 2014, 02:11:46 PM
There is not known that Russia's president Vladimir Putin wants to take control over other regions in Ukraine, but there are some rumors he are missing the old time of the Soviet Union. Today Putin signed an agreement where Crimea joins Russia.
Now lets see if the have caused a domino effect... :o

EDIT:
The truth about the situation there, we will know in the far future...

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Tsanten Eywa 'eveng

NATO Secretary General condemns moves to incorporate Crimea into Russian Federation

NATO Secretary General Anders Fogh Rasmussen condemn President Putin's announcement of new laws incorporating Crimea into the Russian Federation.

Russia has disregarded all calls to step back into line with international law and continues down the dangerous path. Russia  continues to violate Ukraine's sovereignty and territorial integrity, and remains in blatant breach of its international commitments. There can be no justification to continue on this course of action that can only deepen Russia's international isolation. Crimea's annexation is illegal and illegitimate and NATO Allies will not recognise it.
I am deeply concerned by reports of the death of one Ukrainian officer.  It is urgent that all sides show restraint and take all possible steps to avoid further escalation.

http://www.nato.int/cps/en/natolive/news_108100.htm?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=smc&utm_campaign=140318+crimea

Tsanten Eywa 'eveng

Today, Iceland's president was on a visit here in my homecity in Norway, and he doesn't seem very happy of that Secretary State Ingvild Næss Stub is discussion about Russia and Crimea in a conference about the Arctic. President Olafur Ragnar Grimsson, said State Secretary Ingvild Næss Stub its criticism of Russia does not belong to a conference on dialogue in the Arctic.
Secretary Ingvild Næss Stub Foreign Ministry went to vigorously attack on Russia from the pulpit.
Næss Stub made ​​it abundantly clear that Norway supports Ukraine and condemn Russia's approach at the Crimean peninsula.
At the same time she addressed directly to the Russian and Ukrainian students in the audience.
- You are the proof that it is possible to have dialogue and cooperation she said firmly.

Local news(on Norwegian): http://www.an.no/nyheter/article7238911.ece
I have made a post here in a blog i have made: http://worldnewsbeyond.wordpress.com/2014/03/19/icelands-president-visiting-bodo-in-norway-to-discuss-the-arctic-regions/



Secretary Næss Stub also got booed thoroughly by the Icelandic President Olafur Ragnar Grimsson attending the conference .
He thought it was inappropriate to use a dialogue conference to condemn one of the major Arctic countries .
- It does not take us more than an hour to destroy the Arctic cooperation , Grimsson said from the pulpit .

Moreover , he pointed out that there is much at stake in a situation like this .
- The model the Arctic countries have created together over the past twenty years, is the only model of success when it comes to cooperation between nations in the north end of the Cold War. Therefore one should be very careful with the way they bring each country's conflicts into this kind of dialogue , said Grimsson .
To create discord between nations while tapering situation is still in its early stages, he cautioned against too .
- We must be very careful to split the Arctic cooperation in groups. It serves no purpose. I am willing to talk about the situation in any other forum, but not here , he said further .
The County Director of Nordland, Thomas Norvoll , also supported Grimsson påpakning to the Secretary of State. He believes the president did the conference back on track, but regret that when to create dialogue in the north, as one does the opposite. Norvoll is clear that the Arctic Dialogue was the wrong venue and it was a shame this happened especially because there were many young students from these countries in the saddle .

Student Olga Sorvanova from Archangel liked the State Secretary's condemnation very poor
She reacts to the Secretary of State uses the conference to condemn Russia with many Russian students present.
- Wrong place and time , mean Sorvanova saying she could not do anything but tell .
- My commitment is no support for Putin , but because it sits in the audience many Russians who are not part of the conflict. This was just a condemnation and no dialogue , she said.
Sorvanova is concerned that the conflict in the Crimea and in Ukraine has multiple pages. She points out that Ukraine is a very divided country , and that the conflict did not start with Russian aggression , but as an internal conflict in Ukraine with demonstrations in Kiev.
- Very understandable that she said from. It says Mikhail Noskov is Russian Consul General in Kirkenes. He began his presentation by praising Olga Sorvanova by saying that her speech to the audience during the Arctic Dialogue was very understandable , not to mention emotional .
Consul General did not elaborate on the situation in Ukraine.

The Secretary of State said in its response to the criticism of the President, the situation had to be brought in court.
- This situation is serious and dramatic that it should not be mentioned at a conference like this. It is Norway's stance, along with our allies and the EU and NATO, that we are talking about a violation of international law, said Næss Stub.

Tsanten Eywa 'eveng

Pro-Russians have stormed a Ukranian naval base and taken control over it.

A day after Russia claimed Crimea as its own, there are signs the uneasy standoff between pro-Russian and Ukrainian forces could ignite into bloody conflict.
Almost 300 armed pro-Russian supporters took over the Ukrainian navy's headquarters in the Crimean port of Sevastopol on Wednesday, said Marina Kanalyuk, assistant to the commander of Ukraine's navy fleet.
"They are everywhere here, they surround us, they threaten us," she said, adding that she was sure that Russian security forces were involved.
Kanalyuk said the 70 or so Ukrainian naval officers at the headquarters had tried to stop the armed men from entering and were negotiating with them. She said that the armed men had replaced Ukrainian flags with Russian ones but that no shots had been fired.

A little later, Vladislav Seleznyov, Defense Ministry spokesman in Crimea, said a group of people had taken Ukrainian navy chief Sergey Gaiduk from the navy headquarters.
Russia's official ITAR-Tass news agency, citing the local Kryminform news agency, reported that Gaiduk had been passed to the Sevastopol prosecutor's office to be questioned about whether he'd passed on orders from Kiev for Ukrainian soldiers to use their weapons.
The incident comes a day after one member of the Ukrainian military was killed, another wounded and more captured when masked gunmen seized their base near the Crimean regional capital, Simferopol.
After that fatality -- the first Ukrainian military death since the Crimea crisis erupted about two weeks ago -- Ukraine's Defense Ministry authorized its forces to open fire in self-defense.
On the same day, Russian President Vladimir Putin announced the annexation of Crimea, after voters in the semi-autonomous territory approved a hastily called weekend referendum on separating from Ukraine.

As diplomatic efforts to resolve the crisis continue, the United Nations said Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon would visit Russia and Ukraine this week "as part of his diplomatic efforts to encourage all parties to resolve the current crisis peacefully."
He will meet with Putin and Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov in Moscow on Thursday, the United Nations said, and with Ukrainian interim President Oleksandr Turchynov and Prime Minister Arseniy Yatsenyuk on Friday in Kiev.
U.S. Vice President Joe Biden, dispatched to reassure NATO allies in Eastern Europe and the Baltics, met Wednesday with Lithuanian President Dalia Grybauskaite and Latvian President Andris Berzins in Lithuania's capital, Vilnius.
He stressed that the United States was committed to the defense of its NATO allies and had stern words for Moscow's response to the political upheaval in Ukraine.
"Russia has chosen to respond with military aggression, a referendum rejected by virtually the entire world, illegal efforts to annex Crimea and now reports of armed attacks against Ukrainian military personnel and installations in Crimea," he said.
"I want to make it clear: We stand resolutely with our Baltic allies in support of the Ukrainian people and against Russian aggression."
On Tuesday, after talks in Poland, Biden warned that Russia faces "more than just sanctions" unless it abandons its "land grab" in Crimea.

Read more here: http://edition.cnn.com/2014/03/19/world/europe/ukraine-crisis/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

bommel


Kiyevame Ikran

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Blue Elf

Well, Russian bear didn't changed since years of cold war. They take whatever can and there's no power which can stop them. Nobody wants the war (it's understandable, war in today world would have very bad results), but also it is hard to put them into some sanctions - Europe very depends on Russian gas and petrol. This situation has no solution - we can guess who will be the next. In my country there's some Russian community - so will Russia want to "protect" them too? It's really hard to predict where it can lead...
Oe lu skxawng skxakep. Slä oe nerume mi.
"Oe tasyätxaw ulte koren za'u oehu" (Limonádový Joe)


Tìtstewan

The Czech republic has 0,24% Russian people... Germany has 2,8% Russians (mostly from the German minority in Russia). I don't think, that Russia will come and taking over the Czech republic or Germany to "protect" them, for sure...

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archaic

There is a Russian community in the US, around 3.2 million, around 1% of the US population. Will Putin move 'protect' them as well?



Quote from: Tsanten Eywa 'eveng on March 18, 2014, 02:11:46 PM

President Barack Obama are really pissed.

I'm not sure US's opinion is valid, read how Hawaii became one of the United States of America.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overthrow_of_the_Kingdom_of_Hawaii
http://www.hawaiiankingdom.org/us-occupation.shtml
http://www.hawaii-nation.org/soa.html
Attempted Overthrow of the Hawaiian Kingdom,1893
Pasha, an Avatar story, my most recent fanfic, Avatar related, now complete.

The Dragon Affair my last fanfic, non Avatar related.

Blue Elf

Quote from: Tìtstewan on March 20, 2014, 03:05:12 PM
The Czech republic has 0,24% Russian people... Germany has 2,8% Russians (mostly from the German minority in Russia). I don't think, that Russia will come and taking over the Czech republic or Germany to "protect" them, for sure...
Really so small number? When I was in Karlovy Vary (Carlsbad) a few years ago (hm, more than few... maybe fifteen? not sure), there was a quite big number of shops with Russian writtings, many guests there are from Russia. Some buildings in the city are owned by Russian people. I felt like being foreigner there....
Oe lu skxawng skxakep. Slä oe nerume mi.
"Oe tasyätxaw ulte koren za'u oehu" (Limonádový Joe)


Tìtstewan


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Tsanten Eywa 'eveng

Quote from: Tìtstewan on March 22, 2014, 03:20:23 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_Czech_Republic
0.2% Russians
0.5% Ukrainians

----
штурм аэропорт "Бельбек" Russian troops storm Ukraine airbase in Crimea
Kehe!

I was right about to post that.




If Putin wants to build a bigger Russia, what is his next target then? Rumors are telling that Moldova might be next. In 1991, Moldova declared independence from the Soviet Union. Moldova is situated between Ukraine and Romania, and is not either far away from Crimea.

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/03/21/world/europe/putin-what-next/index.html?hpt=hp_c1

Tsanten Eywa 'eveng

While we are on this, NATO has selected their new Secretary General. The new Secretary General of NATO will be former Prime Minister of Norway, Jens Stoltenberg. Many here in my homecountry is really pissed he will be the new NATO Secretary General. I don't know if this might be linked to the Crimean crisis, that it will be selected now a new NATO Secretary General.

This link is on English: http://www.aftenposten.no/nyheter/iriks/Norwegian-ex-PM-to-be-next-NATO-chief-7513206.html#.Uy9FSfl5PNk

Tìtstewan

Quote from: Tsanten Eywa 'eveng on March 23, 2014, 03:24:39 PM
If Putin wants to build a bigger Russia, what is his next target then? Rumors are telling that Moldova might be next. In 1991, Moldova declared independence from the Soviet Union. Moldova is situated between Ukraine and Romania, and is not either far away from Crimea.
http://edition.cnn.com/2014/03/21/world/europe/putin-what-next/index.html?hpt=hp_c1
Russia would like to have Transnistria, but how they want to reach them and with which legitimation? There live only 30,3% Russians, 28,9% Ukrainians and other 31,9% are Moldovans in Transnistria.
Moldova and Romania could reunite, but maybe without the Transnitrian part...

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Tsanten Eywa 'eveng

Quote from: Tìtstewan on March 23, 2014, 03:38:15 PM
Quote from: Tsanten Eywa 'eveng on March 23, 2014, 03:24:39 PM
If Putin wants to build a bigger Russia, what is his next target then? Rumors are telling that Moldova might be next. In 1991, Moldova declared independence from the Soviet Union. Moldova is situated between Ukraine and Romania, and is not either far away from Crimea.
http://edition.cnn.com/2014/03/21/world/europe/putin-what-next/index.html?hpt=hp_c1
Russia would like to have Transnistria, but how they want to reach them and with which legitimation? There live only 30,3% Russians, 28,9% Ukrainians and other 31,9% are Moldovans in Transnistria.
Moldova and Romania could reunite, but maybe without the Transnitrian part...

That sounds right, but I am unsure if Moldova and Romania will reunite. I am pretty sure, if Putin wants to build a bigger Russia, Moldova will reunite with Russia.
I also have a concern that our former PM of Norway will be the next NATO Secretary General. We all know, he is a total nutbag. There's not many people here in Norway who likes him anymore.

Tìtstewan

A reunion of Moldova with Russia...IMO impossible. ;) Transnistria, maybe, but not the whole Moldova. If the moldovian part would reunite with Romania, they would be in the EU as well as in the NATO.
Russia is big enough...and we don't need a Soviet Union 2.0...

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Tsanten Eywa 'eveng

Quote from: Tìtstewan on March 23, 2014, 03:53:12 PM
A reunion of Moldova with Russia...IMO impossible. ;) Transnistria, maybe, but not the whole Moldova. If the moldovian part would reunite with Romania, they would be in the EU as well as in the NATO.
Russia is big enough...and we don't need a Soviet Union 2.0...

That's the problem. Moldova isn't part of either EU and NATO. They are not protected. If Moldova joins EU, there is nothing Russia can do. Russia aren't allowed to take control of Moldova if they are part of EU.

It's the same with Ukraine. Ukraine isn't part of EU and NATO, but they are considering to join both of them.

Tsanten Eywa 'eveng

Transnistria wants to join Russia. It's not that Russia wants them, they want to join Russia.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26627236

Tìtstewan

Moldova should let Transnistria alone or let them go to Russia. Really, it's not worth to have another crisis there...

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