What do you think about the Afghanistan war?

Started by Txur Niftxavang, June 06, 2011, 05:19:43 PM

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Txur Niftxavang

Don't sugar coat anything, say what you mean.            I personally fight for what I believe in, but at the same time its really hard to think about what we are doing there.  Sometimes I got to remind myself why.
Lets hear it, well not hear it but see it. What do you think?       
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Txantslusam Skxawng

idk, I hear a lot of things. Some say its for the good, some say it is for the bad and others say that it just useless..... I'm just a 17 year old and I am not good informed on this.
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Txur Niftxavang

Quote from: Txantslusam Skxawng on June 06, 2011, 05:27:26 PM
idk, I hear a lot of things. Some say its for the good, some say it is for the bad and others say that it just useless..... I'm just a 17 year old and I am not good informed on this.
You may be a 17 year old, but your a friend.   
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Txantslusam Skxawng

I think most 17 year old boys ( in general ) aren't really looking in this kind of topic or think of MW2 when hearing this topic.

Ofcourse all got about one sentence about what's going, like they should just bomb it ( lazy, I am trying to funny-wannabe ) answer or they should(n't), but nothing to support their 'opinions'.
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Ftxavanga Txe′lan

Just like Txantslusam, I'm not really well informed, but I can say that I disapprove the fact that Canada is still out there with its troops. It's not that I don't want to participate and help in Afghanistan, but Canada is leaving the army there and, at the same time, considers removing the few soldiers that have come to help the victims of the floodings in Canada. Does that make any sense? I mean, I think they should revise their priorities and help the country first. When that is done, I don't see any problem in taking care of international matters!

The major problem, I find, is that we're really not informed enough on the topic - well, at least around me. If it was the case, I would be able to understand the situation better, as well as Canada's motivations for staying there. But I don't like that they're making us participate to something no one actually knows about.

Anyways, sorry if I sounded harsh, I didn't mean it to be. :)

Amaya

Being a *slightly* more informed Canadian...I understand why they haven't fully pulled out yet, but like most Canadians, I'd like to see the bulk of our soldiers home.  I know some people say we "haven't accomplished our mission there" but really, it's not like you can force a people into change.  The new setup that's supposed to take place, leaving a core force there in a teaching capacity, makes sense to me, as long as it's well-understood that teaching is their ONLY purpose there, not to spearhead missions or anything stupid. 

When it comes right down to it, the best anyone can hope for is that enough of the Afghan people have been shown the advantages of change so that they will begin to be able to accomplish it primarily on their own.  They're never going to fully embrace a "western-style" government, of course, and frankly, I don't think they should, but at least if they work toward it themselves with support from us, they can expect to have some kind of lasting success.  If the "western-style" governing only exists while there is a full military presence, then those who are ambivalent (not those actively against the idea, but those who don't feel all that strongly one way or another) are more likely to be supportive of it.  Nobody EVER wants to feel they're being forced or bullied into something, after all.

Anyway, that's my semi-informed opinion on the matter.  Hope it made sense.  And keep in mind, ma Txur Niftxavang, that I'm informed only on the Canadian presence in Afghanistan, I really know very little of the current state of the American occupation.

'Itan Atxur

We need to fix our own problems before we go and try solving others. If we can't help ourselves, how do we know we're helping others by trying to implement the basics of our system there? Plus, I don't believe the true goal is to help the people. I think it's all about oil, money, and power.

I support our troops... bring them home. Been saying that WAY too long now.

Also, they claim this is a war on terrorism... but war creates MORE terrorists. If you attack someone, it doesn't matter if your in the right or in the wrong, some people are going to end up hating you that maybe didn't before.

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Tsyal Maktoyu

There's an old saying that Afghanistan is where empires go to die. Alex the Great went to Afghanistan and failed. The Romans went to Afghanistan and failed. The British went and failed. The USSR went and failed, and now the US/NATO powers are there, and given the track record of the past, things aren't looking well. Time to cut our losses, IMO. Humanitarian aid is another story, though. If anything, this is a time for butter, not guns.


Revolutionist

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Txur Niftxavang

#8
I understand completely when you say bring the troops home, but here's the way we think us Soldiers, Marines, etc. Our mission is not done,  let us finish it, if not a lot of my friends will end up dying for nothing...     Maktoyu, not trying to be cocky or anything, but Afghanistan is filled with Marines.  We are made to break, and kill.  Nothing else.  When we flip that switch in our heads, nothing can stop a division of Marines, let alone a small platoon of infantry Marines. OOHRAH! HRH.   Nothing.   Why do you think the Taliban rely so heavily on hiding within the civilian population, and using IEDs?   They know they will be slaughtered in a Hand to hand/ small arms fight.      

Plus, we are training the ANA, they are doing a great job, so far we have set up Police stations, etc.   Just general security force to run the Taliban out.        Maktoyu, you need too learn some faith in us.   I respect your opinion though, and time will tell.  No doubt about that.    

Here is a quote,  set the record straight.   Why do you think our Boot camp is so damn hard?   Its all for a reason.    "I never knew many Marines who were only a 'little' dangerous. Most of them seem to be a LOT dangerous. That, I think, is the idea." ~ Capt. Toby Houghs, USAF      

I personally have faith in our mission, I'd rather die standing for something, unlike many who die for nothing.  

Here is a little enlightenment... 
http://youtu.be/SJPPrngLCvg

http://youtu.be/2pc1CcWUtuo
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'Itan Atxur

I know many Marines personally, and I DO have faith in the individuals within the Marines. I definitely believe that even if we're over there for the wrong reasons, that people are managing to make a positive impact. Good can come from (for lack of a better term) evil.

I've actually considered enlisting just to acquire the amazing discipline and team work but I don't like the idea of fighting a war I don't entirely believe in. It'd be a completely different story if I trusted the US government, but I don't.

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Txur Niftxavang

Quote from: 'Itan Atxur on June 07, 2011, 11:22:41 AM
I know many Marines personally, and I DO have faith in the individuals within the Marines. I definitely believe that even if we're over there for the wrong reasons, that people are managing to make a positive impact. Good can come from (for lack of a better term) evil.

I've actually considered enlisting just to acquire the amazing discipline and team work but I don't like the idea of fighting a war I don't entirely believe in. It'd be a completely different story if I trusted the US government, but I don't.
Yeah, I understand your case in point, you'd be enlisting for the entirely wrong reasons as an individual.   Seen it, its not pretty...  Kinda sad when they get out, cause those guys are totally F'd up, and cant deal with wasting 4, or 5 years of their life... All I can say is just live your life to the fullest, and don't take no for an answer in anything that you do.  Just don't enlist if you keep second guessing yourself.   You have to want it in your heart.  Not just because of attributes that come along.  Its hard to wake up when some people are saying that we are in the war for all the wrong reasons, I spit back at them and tell them this.  (These are the people who DONT support us as troops)  If you don't like it, why dont you just stand in front of us, and take the bullets, IEDs, and what not?  That's all your good for... I'm sure any other Marine would agree.  All this boot f*** going around on the news these days, I just want to throw my TV out on the nearest protester on the war.  They are being fed bullsh!t.
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Amaya

I would like to point out something important.  I support my troops.  I don't support the way the war has been dealt with, but as for the forces themselves, I support that they're doing the best they can in a F** up situation.

archaic

I know many ex soldiers, they are all great guys, even if some of them are a bit messed up. A couple are a pain in the txim, but deep down, I'd trust them with my life.
It's not the people on the front line or the people in the supply chain. It's the politicians who got us into this war I don't trust. If you do then you are naïve, brave, worthy and respected by me as you are, but trust me:- they are not all in it for the right reasons.

Whatever good may come from this war, and I have hope that much will, I feel that troops were sent in when they should not have been.

PS If you are out there, going out there, or returned from there. You have my full and unconditional support. Keep up the good work, stay safe. If you haven't already, then I hope come home safely.
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Tsyal Maktoyu

#13
Let me set the record straight, I support the troops, have no doubt about that. I have several friends who are going into the military, some as Marines and some as National Guardsmen, and they are all slated for eventual deployment. I have my full faith in their abilites and what they stand for (you too, ma tsmukan), but I don't support the mission (but I support their ability to execute it). I love the warrior, but not the war. Personally, I still think the war never should have happened. I am a non-interventionist, and believe that the military has recently been somewhat taken over by corporate and political interests, not the interests of the people (would anyone deny that the war isn't at least a small part about oil or mineral interests? The trillion dolar debt they created doesn't help, either). Realize that we are part of the reason this whole mess started in the first place. We armed the Mujahideen during the Soviet war with Afghanistan, and now we are fighting the monster we created. My personal hope that when this mess is finally cleared up, we can learn to keep our noses clean, then nobody would have to dodge bullets and IEDs in the first place. Neoconservative foreign policy like the Nixon doctrine has created more problems than it has solved, and sometimes I worry that such policies are slowly devolving into the 19th century policy of colonialism. Instead of trying to put out a fire, don't f*** with the matches in the first place.

Though I understand where you are coming from, that we gotta clean up our mess, and I'm glad you understand where I come from. :)

In the end, I think that what we need is less of this...

QuoteMaktoyu, not trying to be cocky or anything, but Afghanistan is filled with Marines.  We are made to break, and kill.  Nothing else.

...and more of this.

QuotePlus, we are training the ANA, they are doing a great job, so far we have set up Police stations, etc.   Just general security force to run the Taliban out.

Again, the butter, not the guns. Prior to the Iraq war and now war in Libya, this is primarily what forces in Afghanistan consisted of. Specialized forces going into towns, and building schools, farms, hospitals, and other services, in exchange for any Taliban forces being harbored in the town, and guess what? They gave them up. Now that the US is fighting THREE wars, and resources are being stretched so thin, the US was forced to stop such activities, and instead send in forces who's main mission is to kill and destroy, which creates more enemies than friends (guess who's building the schools and hospitals now? That's right, the Taliban). The mix of poverty and radical jihad philosophy creates a sort of Medusa, where when one terrorist is cut down, two more will pop up in their place, which is why I think no military (as in guns) force will ever succeed in Afghanistan, no matter how tough they are, because enemies just multiply. You gotta turn the people against them, and that doesn't happen by bombing said people and their families away.


Revolutionist

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"Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest". - Denis Diderot

'Itan Atxur

#14
Quote from: Txur Niftxavang on June 07, 2011, 11:32:37 AM
All this boot f*** going around on the news these days, I just want to throw my TV out on the nearest protester on the war.  They are being fed bullsh!t.

All of us are being fed bull****. It's just to hard to figure out who to trust. They only way it seems to me to actually know whats going on is to experience it for yourself.

Quote from: archaic on June 07, 2011, 12:06:28 PM
PS If you are out there, going out there, or returned from there. You have my full and unconditional support. Keep up the good work, stay safe. If you haven't already, then I hope come home safely.
Ex-marines in wheel chairs may make for great movies, but I wouldn't wish it on anyone in RL.

This exactly.

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ExLibrisMortis

First off... never say its about oil. Because it's not.

And honestly, the more and more I look into it, the more I see that our governments (notice the "s") are being pressured/manipulated or whatever other verb you want to use, into doing it.

Toruk Makto

Quote from: archaic on June 07, 2011, 12:06:28 PM
I know many ex soldiers, they are all great guys, even if some of them are a bit messed up. A couple are a pain in the txim, but deep down, I'd trust them with my life.
It's not the people on the front line or the people in the supply chain. It's the politicians who got us into this war I don't trust. If you do then you are naïve, brave, worthy and respected by me as you are, but trust me:- they are not all in it for the right reasons.

Whatever good may come from this war, and I have hope that much will, I feel that troops were sent in when they should not have been.

PS If you are out there, going out there, or returned from there. You have my full and unconditional support. Keep up the good work, stay safe. If you haven't already, then I hope come home safely.
Ex-marines in wheel chairs may make for great movies, but I wouldn't wish it on anyone in RL.

^^This^^

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Niwantaw

The problem with Afghanistan is the fact that it should never of happened. It was caused by hatred of the USSR (which is fair enough as it was a horrible place) resulting in a stupid action. Which now means the US is (ironically) getting shot by weapons it supplied to people (who they knew were not going to be friends with for very long) to combat communism.


And personally I think it's just going to be Vietnam all over again.

As for supporting the troops they have my full support. And if you don't support them then you're essentially shooting them in the back. The troops aren't the ones who started the war.
Only mostly AWOL.

'Itan Atxur

Agreed completely. The troops themselves have my support 100% (even the slightly crazy ones of which I personally know more than a few :)).

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Txur’Itan

#19
Text Wall of opinion and perspective.


Short answer.

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