Belo Monte Dam in Brazil - WITH UPDATES

Started by Toruk Makto, April 26, 2010, 11:17:03 AM

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ExLibrisMortis

Quote from: Raiden on August 06, 2011, 01:35:20 AM
...

I don't even care anymore.

I don't.

I'm ashamed to be a human.

Get me a tank, a fighter jet, or an apache helicopter. Anything with lots of guns and missles.

I'll kill this guy, and his entire f*** organization myself.

And then I'll kill the american oil industry heads.

Followed by the British ones.

And I'll have the iron ore industry for dessert, with some pureed tar sands execs on top.

They're all worthless. Utterly worthless. I could make them into fertilizer after I've bashed them to bits and they would still be inferior.

And by letting that much rage take over, you've aloud them to win. Remember the quote I said up there from Ghandi...

QuoteYou must not lose faith in humanity. Humanity is an ocean; if a few drops of the ocean are dirty, the ocean does not become dirty.

By saying what you said above, you make yourself, at least in thought, no better than the Earth Firsters, The Shephards, or even Greenpeace. Whom of which would resort to nothing more than terrorism to support their cause. Terrorism, is, never, acceptable. Well, terrorism is just a label, but when its given to people whom would indiscriminately kill people by blowing up places, and justify it by saying they shouldn't have been/working there, it's quite the appropriate title.

The Majority of humanity is good willed. Man himself is a being of goodness, with the potential to do great evil; NOT the other way around. Humanity is only at the technological advance that its at now because of it's amazing ingenuity and potential. And like UtS said, all organizations arn't bad. Actually the majority of them are not bad at all. By the hands of companies and corporations are you not only alive today, but able to live, and do many things that many of us would take for granted.



Irtaviš Ačankif

ELM, Man himself is a being of great evil, but with a conscience that tells him to do good. Laws and regulations make following one's conscience...umm...have better consequences, so in practice man is good. However, terrorists disregard laws and regulations and their conscience and instead live out their every kawnga whim of their kawnga tawtute self, which is basically evil.

So Raiden, by saying those words you are actually allowing your kawnga tawtute self to explode.
Previously Ithisa Kīranem, Uniltìrantokx te Skxawng.

Name from my Sakaš conlang, from Sakasul Ältäbisäl Acarankïp

"First name" is Ačankif, not Eltabiš! In Na'vi, Atsankip.

archaic

There's a Neytiri quote that fit's this, you now the one .....
Pasha, an Avatar story, my most recent fanfic, Avatar related, now complete.

The Dragon Affair my last fanfic, non Avatar related.

Tirea Aean

Quote from: archaic on August 06, 2011, 09:57:06 AM
There's a Neytiri quote that fit's this, you now the one .....

wild guess,

Quote from: Ney
This is sad. very sad ONLY!

Irtaviš Ačankif

I think it is

Kawkrr! Ke slayu nga Na'viyä hapxì!

the thing he yells to Jake about his "betrayal".
Previously Ithisa Kīranem, Uniltìrantokx te Skxawng.

Name from my Sakaš conlang, from Sakasul Ältäbisäl Acarankïp

"First name" is Ačankif, not Eltabiš! In Na'vi, Atsankip.

Vawm tsamsiyu

That's why if I could destroy the dam I would do it in a way that doesn't hurt anyone, just breaks stuff and ruins somones day
they killed the [you] tag

Toruk Makto

I am going to gently but firmly request certain folks to lower their tone. Havoc doesn't solve anything. Thanks.

Markì

Lì'fyari leNa'vi 'Rrtamì, vay set 'almong a fra'u zera'u ta ngrrpongu
Na'vi Dictionary: http://files.learnnavi.org/dicts/NaviDictionary.pdf

Tsyal Maktoyu

#247
*sigh* Why do the bastards always win?

Fascist swine...

So what do we do now? I know, write a strongly worded letter! That'll show 'em! ::)

I know Raiden sounded a bit...over the top, but what is left? So many in the upper echelon of industry have little concern for anything more than the profits they rape, pillage, and sometimes kill for (both the Earth itself, and it's inhabitants, human and non-human). Think about it, some of the biggest terrorists in the world are on Wall Street! We're in the age of the modern robber-baron, and they're not content with killing their fellow man, now they've come for the planet, too. Democracy be damned. The voice of the people is little more than a dull roar in the age of mass political pay-offs. But as many in the Middle East and central Europe/England know, that dull roar is growing... I have not lost faith in humanity, just it's economic and political leaders, and unless we the people stand up and clean up the trash, we'll be facing a world like Earth 2154 before we even have time to fully comprehend the consequences of our inaction.

Fighting for the Xingu is more than a conservation and human rights issue. To me, it's a war on terror, because rich guys can be terrorists, too.


Revolutionist

"You mustn't be afraid to dream a little bigger, darling." - Inception

"Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest". - Denis Diderot

Tirea Aean

Quote from: Markì on August 06, 2011, 03:16:18 PM
I am going to gently but firmly request certain folks to lower their tone. Havoc doesn't solve anything. Thanks.

Markì

I am with this. Let's remain civil here. using harsh language/tone on an internet forum is doing nothing for the cause.

Vawm tsamsiyu

Quote from: Tirea Aean on August 06, 2011, 04:45:52 PM
Quote from: Markì on August 06, 2011, 03:16:18 PM
I am going to gently but firmly request certain folks to lower their tone. Havoc doesn't solve anything. Thanks.

Markì

I am with this. Let's remain civil here. using harsh language/tone on an internet forum is doing nothing for the cause.
Unfortunately that's all we can really do, it's not like we can go there and protest and cause political mahem until the current leaders in brazil are kicked out and prosecuted for all their law breaking  :'(
they killed the [you] tag

Irtaviš Ačankif

Tsayl Maktoyu, what you are saying sounds like Quaritch: "We will fight terror with terror." Simply that you are fighting terror doesn't justifu using terror. Even the controversial Iraq War thingy doesn't even use terror tactics like blowing up pieces. So think about this. After the Domodedevo airport in Moscow was bombed, did Russians "fight terror" by going out and bombing another airport? No!
Previously Ithisa Kīranem, Uniltìrantokx te Skxawng.

Name from my Sakaš conlang, from Sakasul Ältäbisäl Acarankïp

"First name" is Ačankif, not Eltabiš! In Na'vi, Atsankip.

Tsyal Maktoyu

#251
Let me ask you something UtS, would you consider the French Revolution to have been an act of terror? The American? Haitan? Egyptian? Anytime a peoples use force against a tyrannical oppressor, is it automatically an act of terror? Would you consider my country's constitution a terrorist document? Because the endorsement of revolution in the event of tyranny is written directly into it.

Equating popular rebellion with minority, lone-wolf terrorism is another tool of the elites to cement their own power. They create false equivalencies to delegitimize any form of rebellion against the status quo. This is actively occurring in South America right now. Many countries are now clasifying any form of indigenous protest at all as terrorism.

http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth/opinion/2011/06/201162995115833636.html


Revolutionist

"You mustn't be afraid to dream a little bigger, darling." - Inception

"Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest". - Denis Diderot

Raiden

Now that my smoldering rage has subsided somewhat...

Tsyal has a point in all of this.

If using politics doesn't work then all that remains is violence. There might be laws against it, but in reality, many of those laws are put into place so that there aren't any uprisings, so that larger entities can sidestep laws and use underhanded methods to get what they want without being disturbed.

Throughout history, this has been the case. The Revolutionary War in the U.S. is one example, and one needn't look any further than the omnipresent wikipedia to find many more.

There comes a point when defending yourself with physical violence is worth the potential consequences, and folks, we've just about hit the flash point with that scenario.

Also, UtS, living in a democracy is meaningless. The United States likes to look like the best place on Earth, but our leaders and governors are so horribly disconnected from what the regular, everyday people need that sometimes it makes me nauseous.
Trouble keeps me running faster

Save the planet from disaster...

Irtaviš Ačankif

The only reason why people like you don't get detained in jail is because you live in a REAL DEMOCRACY with FREEDOM OF SPEECH. If you said that in China on Baidu Forum AND put that revolutionary thingy in your sig just wait...the cops will come and you will either get brainwashed by a bunch of agents and told to go home or get put into jail.

WAKE UP, ma Tsyal Maktoyu sì Raiden! The only reason menga actually have the capability to think of these things and actually PROCLAIM them is because of your terrific democracy! I hope I have a government like yours.

By the way, our leaders are far less connected to our people than yours are with your people. Our leaders...umm...don't even make decisions (their little secretaries and advisors have an ample supply of stupid ideas from them to draw upon) and always holds a big piece of paper and talks slowly and robotically when doing speeches and doesn't even know how to sit and shake hands properly on international meetings. They are...umm...a bit like ayskxawng...

Another thing is that we humans tend to nit-pick our leaders, as you did with yours and I just did with mine. As humans we also like to do away with anything more powerful than us, let it be corporations or governments, because we want to make ourselves seem more powerful than our superiors. So do away with your kawnga tawtute thoughts and submit to the govs when they are not wrong.

And preventing uprisings? Why, ma Raiden! Here in a non-democratic country if a private school goes parading on National Day or even if you hold a meeting with lots of people in a park it is counted as an "uprising!" Any way, anywhere, violent uprisings are just AKAWNG. Period. You don't have laws against UNARMED uprisings, and that is already VERY democratic compared to here.

In a nutshell, stop taking your democracy for granted and thank Eywa for not being in jail. Even China is very democratic compared with other communist countries like N.Korea and Cuba. And think about those countries...
Previously Ithisa Kīranem, Uniltìrantokx te Skxawng.

Name from my Sakaš conlang, from Sakasul Ältäbisäl Acarankïp

"First name" is Ačankif, not Eltabiš! In Na'vi, Atsankip.

Tsyal Maktoyu

#254
Um, here's the thing, THEY ARE WRONG.

Hacking Democracy 1 of 9

Just sayin'...if you want to see what our "great democracy" has degenerated into.

And our leaders are the exact same way, it's just that they draw stupid ideas from Wall Street and other lobbying groups. Our government is just as much a puppetshow in practice as your government is.

And we're slowly, subversively losing our right to resist, too. Do you know what a Police State is?

http://www.alternet.org/vision/151850/8_reasons_young_americans_don%27t_fight_back%3A_how_the_us_crushed_youth_resistance/
http://www.alternet.org/world/151864/6_creepy_new_weapons_the_police_and_military_use_to_subdue_unarmed_people/

You're communist, we're fascist: same end, oligarchy, either for the state (you're country) or corporate powers (mine). The only difference is that my country at least tries to give the illusion of democracy.

UtS, time to face the realpolitik!


Revolutionist

"You mustn't be afraid to dream a little bigger, darling." - Inception

"Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest". - Denis Diderot

Raiden

Quote from: Uniltìrantokx te Skxawng on August 07, 2011, 02:23:15 AM
The only reason why people like you don't get detained in jail is because you live in a REAL DEMOCRACY with FREEDOM OF SPEECH. If you said that in China on Baidu Forum AND put that revolutionary thingy in your sig just wait...the cops will come and you will either get brainwashed by a bunch of agents and told to go home or get put into jail.

We may have freedom of speech, which does count for something, but those amongst our government who wish to do things their own way know how to sidestep this.

The United States does have some nice things about it, but the truth is that industries and governing powers aren't regulated well enough for it to really work. One of the other problems are all the damn states. Since everyone is split up, each state has different laws, with some states even coming across like different countries. The states were a terrible, flawed idea to start with and it shouldn't have been that hard to come up with a different way of doing things.

But back on topic.

Since I can't hop into a mobile suit or something and go blow all those people to smithereens, the only thing that would be effective right now is to spread the news as far and as wide as possible, so that everyone knows how terrible this is going to be when it happens, and so that the protest gets as big and as effective as possible.
Trouble keeps me running faster

Save the planet from disaster...

Irtaviš Ačankif

The "damn states" thing is actually quite what democracy is all about. I don't want a huge central government that controls everything.

By the way, this is just basic sawtute nature. We hate what we are tired of, and when we hate something, we notice and nitpick it more. Therefore, we get more tired of it now that we notice much more of it, and we hate it even more. It's just a spiral into hate, which I don't want to even begin.

American leaders need reputation to get power, wheter the rep is from people or corporations (note that a corporation's support also represents the support of a bunch of people). Chinese leaders don't need any rep to get power - they just need the appointment from the last leader. In fact, compared to Hu Jintao, George W. Bush will seem like a very charismatic and insanely popular president. And don't even think about Cuba and North Korea!

Back on topic though, we should be trying to present to the Brazilian hydroelectric power industry directly the harms to the environment the dam will cause. A huge protest around the world will just make the company more ostinate and stubborn. We should also suggest other more environmentally friendly methods of power production that minimizes land usage and pollution. I personally like nuclear today and fusion in the future the best, but I'm also behind solar and tidal. Biomass seems a waste of already limited natural resources, and geothermal is way too inefficient.
Previously Ithisa Kīranem, Uniltìrantokx te Skxawng.

Name from my Sakaš conlang, from Sakasul Ältäbisäl Acarankïp

"First name" is Ačankif, not Eltabiš! In Na'vi, Atsankip.

Tsyal Maktoyu

#257
That's federalism, a whole different topic. There are many democratic national governments out there, case-in-point, Europe (who at least don't use Diebold machines).

We hate them for a reason. ;)

Actually no, they don't. The 2010 general election is proof of that. Many right-wing, "Tea Party" candidates who came out of the woodwork out of nowhere won office, by an extreme minority of Tea Party supporters. So far they've tried to gut Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, and the EPA, all in the name of their "pro-business" agenda. They're purposely trying to crash the economy so that the US is forced to turn the social safety net over to private industry. The IMF is doing the same to the Greece economy. At least people are finally waking up to this crap. And even if a candidate does win popular election, how does that stop lobbies from knocking on their office door once they reach the Capital? Like I said before, the yearly income of all politicians is less than $200,000, but many are bagging millions a year. Where do you think that is coming from? The interests of the general populace?

Watch the movie, UtS.

And I think this discussion is very relevant to the topic. Belo Monte is a perfect example of what happens whena government kowtows to the interests of business rather than the interests of the people. In this case, Eletronorte. And please don't give me any of this idealistic, neoliberal crap about "the interests of business are the interests of the people." Trust me, I know what I'm talking about. I follow this stuff. We have the best government money can buy. Go read up on hydrofracking and then tell me with a straight face that business interests = interests of the people. "Gasland" is a good place to start.

Solar is the best solution in this energy problem. Take the example of solar power in Germany. Thanks to government subsidies, the solar system already provides more than the 11,000MW that this dam will provide to Brazil. But then again, getting people off the grid and energy independant isn't exactly in the business interests of Eletronorte. ::)

EDIT: Hey, I wonder if we can get Anonymous involved in this fight? :)


Revolutionist

"You mustn't be afraid to dream a little bigger, darling." - Inception

"Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest". - Denis Diderot

ExLibrisMortis

Quote from: Tsyal Maktoyu on August 07, 2011, 01:05:10 PM
EDIT: Hey, I wonder if we can get Anonymous involved in this fight? :)

If only you knew. And to note, without the tea party candidates that hit office, the National credit rating would have dropped a lot farther a lot sooner. Why? Because the Democratic answer to fixing deficit is taxes. You can not tax your way out of a recession, it just causes it to go deeper.

Nevertheless, Like I said a lot earlier in this thread, the tree of Liberty must, from time to time, be refreshed with the blood of patriots and tyrants. Humanity will always be at a constant struggle with itself and there will always be a war of the classes, no matter what label those classes have at the time. Blood to be spilled is quite the necessity to keep the cogs of humanity turning. Just like the blood o the Na'vi must be spilled between each other to keep their cogs turning.

One more point, America has never been a democracy, nor will it ever be. What America originally had was beautiful, and what it now is is nothing compared to what it was supposed to be. A nation riddled with laws, litigation, and slowly eroding rights. You think the constitution will  last much longer? You think the first 10 amendments, the bill of rights, mean much of anything to some people in power? The answer to both those questions is no, and history may soon have to repeat itself.

Tirea Aean

okay so um this was a thread about the Belo Monte Dam updates, right? O.o