Belo Monte Dam in Brazil - WITH UPDATES

[Raiden]

OMG I don't think this is a correct way to protest...

Ha! So naive...

When democracy itself is corrupted, the only way to obtain justice is to beat the s*** out of your enemies. I'ts about time someone got violent.

[Toruk Makto]

I disagree with that. Violence is only successful if you have superior firepower. The indigenous don't in most cases, so they stand the best chance by engaging the world to their cause. This was one of the messages in Avatar that I think a lot of people missed.

[Tsmuktengan]

I can't accept this violence as well. In such a situation, there were still many other possibilities to protest in a more peaceful yet firmly way. If violence is the reply you get for peaceful protestation, it is even less good for everyone to reply with violence.

Workers who cannot safely work can stop working (and I think they should) and raise their many voices. But even if they are bashed, they, as workers, should not be violent. They can and should however voice even higher the succession of violations they suffer from, and be precise.

We have a proverb for this in France : violence calls for violence (meaning that violence causes even greater violence in return, and may initiate an increasing cycle where you can imagine the consequences, both speaking of people and natural considerations). And it is the right path to take because it will, in the end, win.

[Clarke]

OMG I don't think this is a correct way to protest...

Ha! So naive...

When democracy itself is corrupted, the only way to obtain justice is to beat the s*** out of your enemies. I'ts about time someone got violent.

That just means that "justice" is the POV of the guy with the bigger stick.

[Teylar Ta Palulukankelku]

Irayo for the article, ma Redpaintednavi ulte irayo for the video, ma Kamean  . And if i may speak my mind in the ``passivity vs. violence´´-discussion: While the ideal situation in my mind would be that no force whatsoever would be necessary, my cynicism kicks in and tells me that sometimes there's no other way; You can't use words on someone who'll try to crush you by brute force instead of negotiating  . That's why i support these worker's actions to some extent because i believe the situation demands it. And as far as we know they haven't harmed any people yet; They were basically destroying their own working equipment. And besides; The only source in the article reporting about the sabotage is the consortium in charge of the dam construction, so they may be lying about or at least exaggerating the worker's sabotage as a means of propaganda.

[Tsmuktengan]

You may be right. Yet, there aren't enough information to clearly understand what happens there.

[Teylar Ta Palulukankelku]

I'm fully aware of that, which is why i pointed out that it may be that way. But you're right; Critically scrutinizing journalistic works is important.

[Redpaintednavi]

Now the exploiters even try to infiltrate and spy on the organisations that want to save the Xingu:

We've been infiltrated.

We just learned that the movement we've been stewarding in Brazil – the Xingu Alive Forever Movement, which has worked relentlessly to stop the destructive Belo Monte Dam – was infiltrated by a spy.

The Belo Monte Construction Consortium (CCBM) actually hired a spy to gain our trust and report back on our strategies and plans. He was assigned to "gather information on the group and its leaders in order to inform the Brazilian government's national intelligence agency, ABIN." Corporate espionage is alive and well in Brazil.

What does this really mean? It means we're having a profound impact! This shows us the lengths CCBM will go in order to dam the rivers, flood Altamira and displace over 20,000 people.

Amazonwatch

Belo Monte dam worker infiltrated organization to inform Brazilian intelligence
Altamira, Brazil – Members of the Brazilian Xingu Alive Forever Movement (MXVPS) have discovered an informant claiming to be an activist who was caught spying on their annual strategic planning meeting last Sunday with a pen-shaped video camera. Upon being exposed, the suspect immediately confessed in a video statement that the Belo Monte Construction Consortium (CCBM) had hired him to infiltrate the MXVPS meeting in order to gather information on its leaders and activities and to inform the Brazilian government's national intelligence agency ABIN.

AMAZON WATCH » Worker Admits to Spying on Social Movement in Belo Monte Dam Case

[Tsmuktengan]

Hmm.. I don't know what to think about this.

[Raiden]

Well, this explains the lack of news.

I hope he/she contracts some terrible disease and dies.

[Irtaviš Ačankif]

Well, this explains the lack of news.

I hope he/she contracts some terrible disease and dies.

Err...I don't really agree with that...

The Brazilians, although they are doing a despicable act, are not more evil per se. All humans have evil inside, as all humans are selfish. It's just that the makers of the dam aren't caring about other people when they do what they suppose is good for themselves. They have power, but they shirk their responsibilities.

Some people inevitably has to have more power than others, but laws should make sure they take more responsibility. So the issue isn't "HEY YOU F**KIN DONT HAVE ANY RIGHTS TO BUILD THIS DAMN DAM" but that they are being wanton and irresponsible about the consequences.

[Raiden]

The president is pretty close to evil.

[Teylar Ta Palulukankelku]

Now the exploiters even try to infiltrate and spy on the organisations that want to save the Xingu:

We've been infiltrated.

We just learned that the movement we've been stewarding in Brazil – the Xingu Alive Forever Movement, which has worked relentlessly to stop the destructive Belo Monte Dam – was infiltrated by a spy.

The Belo Monte Construction Consortium (CCBM) actually hired a spy to gain our trust and report back on our strategies and plans. He was assigned to "gather information on the group and its leaders in order to inform the Brazilian government's national intelligence agency, ABIN." Corporate espionage is alive and well in Brazil.

What does this really mean? It means we're having a profound impact! This shows us the lengths CCBM will go in order to dam the rivers, flood Altamira and displace over 20,000 people.

Amazonwatch

Belo Monte dam worker infiltrated organization to inform Brazilian intelligence
Altamira, Brazil – Members of the Brazilian Xingu Alive Forever Movement (MXVPS) have discovered an informant claiming to be an activist who was caught spying on their annual strategic planning meeting last Sunday with a pen-shaped video camera. Upon being exposed, the suspect immediately confessed in a video statement that the Belo Monte Construction Consortium (CCBM) had hired him to infiltrate the MXVPS meeting in order to gather information on its leaders and activities and to inform the Brazilian government's national intelligence agency ABIN.

AMAZON WATCH » Worker Admits to Spying on Social Movement in Belo Monte Dam Case

This whole Belo Monte-situation sounds more and more like the events in Avatar to me. I mean, what that spy was doing sounds just like Jake's original mission ordered by Quaritch.

[Ftiafpi]

Now the exploiters even try to infiltrate and spy on the organisations that want to save the Xingu:

We've been infiltrated.

We just learned that the movement we've been stewarding in Brazil – the Xingu Alive Forever Movement, which has worked relentlessly to stop the destructive Belo Monte Dam – was infiltrated by a spy.

The Belo Monte Construction Consortium (CCBM) actually hired a spy to gain our trust and report back on our strategies and plans. He was assigned to "gather information on the group and its leaders in order to inform the Brazilian government's national intelligence agency, ABIN." Corporate espionage is alive and well in Brazil.

What does this really mean? It means we're having a profound impact! This shows us the lengths CCBM will go in order to dam the rivers, flood Altamira and displace over 20,000 people.

Amazonwatch

Belo Monte dam worker infiltrated organization to inform Brazilian intelligence
Altamira, Brazil – Members of the Brazilian Xingu Alive Forever Movement (MXVPS) have discovered an informant claiming to be an activist who was caught spying on their annual strategic planning meeting last Sunday with a pen-shaped video camera. Upon being exposed, the suspect immediately confessed in a video statement that the Belo Monte Construction Consortium (CCBM) had hired him to infiltrate the MXVPS meeting in order to gather information on its leaders and activities and to inform the Brazilian government's national intelligence agency ABIN.

AMAZON WATCH » Worker Admits to Spying on Social Movement in Belo Monte Dam Case

This whole Belo Monte-situation sounds more and more like the events in Avatar to me. I mean, what that spy was doing sounds just like Jake's original mission ordered by Quaritch.

Oh my god, you're right!

[Irtaviš Ačankif]

I don't think we should draw too many conclusions. The fact is that the Amazonian peoples are *not* the Na'vi, as much as we like them to be.

[Teylar Ta Palulukankelku]

I don't think we should draw too many conclusions. The fact is that the Amazonian peoples are *not* the Na'vi, as much as we like them to be.

I'm not saying they are the Na'vi, i'm just saying that i think that the part with spy very much reminded me of Jake's mission as an infiltrator. And, BTW: I know these people aren't literally the Na'vi, but what do you think sets them apart in terms of the situation they're in  ? Because IMO it very much feels like (fictional) history is repeating itself, like Avatar in itself is a prediction of events similar to the Belo Monte Dam-situation.

[Irtaviš Ačankif]

I don't think we should draw too many conclusions. The fact is that the Amazonian peoples are *not* the Na'vi, as much as we like them to be.

I'm not saying they are the Na'vi, i'm just saying that i think that the part with spy very much reminded me of Jake's mission as an infiltrator. And, BTW: I know these people aren't literally the Na'vi, but what do you think sets them apart in terms of the situation they're in  ? Because IMO it very much feels like (fictional) history is repeating itself, like Avatar in itself is a prediction of events similar to the Belo Monte Dam-situation.

Pandora: unobtanium
Brazil: electricity

Pandora: Eywa exists
Brazil: (you may disagree) Eywa does not

Pandora: Big paramilitary force
Brazil: Big corporate executives and a bunch of workers

Pandora: Pristine planet
Brazil: Pretty messed up already

etc etc

[Toruk Makto]

Displacing entire villages for the economic benefit of a few?  Check.

[Irtaviš Ačankif]

Displacing entire villages for the economic benefit of a few?  Check.

There's a difference between flooding a bunch of villages in the Amazon and using helicopters and bombs.

Also, at least there are third-party environmental scientists studying this. There aren't really any on Pandora (ignoring Grace, since she is not third-party). At least if there are lots of scientific studies on the impact and everybody says okay in Avatar's universe, the movie is passing completely the wrong message.

[Toruk Makto]

Displacing entire villages for the economic benefit of a few?  Check.

There's a difference between flooding a bunch of villages in the Amazon and using helicopters and bombs.

Also, at least there are third-party environmental scientists studying this. There aren't really any on Pandora (ignoring Grace, since she is not third-party). At least if there are lots of scientific studies on the impact and everybody says okay in Avatar's universe, the movie is passing completely the wrong message.

If you must insist on differentiating the methods, then do as you wish. My point is that there are people displaced against their will in both scenarios. Also, we don't really know what exactly has been studied on Pandora, since that was not revealed in the film. I decline to make any sort of definitive statements in that regard.

ta Markì