Belo Monte Dam in Brazil - WITH UPDATES

[Tupìawo'o]

that is a dilemma 

[Teylar Ta Palulukankelku]

Just a note, since you didn't get it : they temporarily went in it and obliged the parliament to give them an audience and then go somewhere else. They did not and do not occupy it. There is no link to any occupy thing as they don't want to block the Brazilian institution.

I assumed they didn't really ``occupy´´ the parliament, hence the reason i wrote the word ``occupants´´ within quotation marks.

Life is a thing to be cherished, and exalted. All means whatsoever should be taken to perserve its sanctity, in all its forms.

that is a dilemma 

While i agree with ExLibrisMortis to a certain extent, i believe that some situations require this ideal to be overlooked due to the fact that sometimes you have to kill to prevent even more killing, however absurd that may sound. But i agree with Tupìawo'o: It is not something to be taken lightly.

[Tsmuktengan]

Especially since Dilma has been elected by the Brazilians. You can't step like this on an electoral process that has been clear, whatever you think of her.

[Teylar Ta Palulukankelku]

I suppose. However, i wouldn't be surprised if quite a few of the people who voted for her are now discontent with her actions. They might not have expected her to go through with this  . Politicians do make promises they can't keep and all that s**t  . I mean; I don't think all of the Germans that voted for Hitler and the Nazi party knew everything they were planning to do in advance. My point being: I don't think you can always just simply say ``But people voted for these guys. We have to respect that.´´, when politicians occasionally mislead or even lie to their voters in one way or another. I think it's much more complicated than that.

[Irtaviš Ačankif]

Those who were discontent probably did not vote for her. In Hitler's time, the remaining candidates were either obviously bad or from radical parties like the Communists, which people did not generally like.

[ExLibrisMortis]

Remember too, just because one is allowed to vote, does not mean that you are free.

[Teylar Ta Palulukankelku]

Hmm, you've got a point there, ma Ithisa.

Indeed, ma ELM; There's only so many you can vote for. I just realized that perhaps one of the hardest challenges in a representative democracy is making sure everyone's opinions are represented.

[Raiden]

http://news.mongabay.com/2013/0503-belo-monte-occupation.html

I want to see that big guy with the black tattoos crack the security guy's head open.

[Teylar Ta Palulukankelku]

Irayo for the article, ma Raiden  . Can't help but notice that it says ``CHOQUE´´ on the security guard's vest. Almost sounds like he's a shock trooper or something  .

[Tsanten Eywa 'eveng]

New update people. The indigenous people have now occupied the construction site for the Belo Monte Dam, and gouvernmental police have shown up on the site where they are.
The federal gouvernment have also announced a massacre of indigenous peoples, the 170 warriors, women, children, leaders and shamans who are here. This massacre is going to happen at the hands of police, Funai, and Justice.

http://stopbelomonte.tumblr.com/post/51666870415/letter-8-the-massacre-has-been-announced-and-only-the


We have occupied the construction site of the Belo Monte Dam. We are defending our lands. These ancient lands have always been ours and you have already taken a part of them. And now you are trying to take more. We will not leave.

You will come to kill us. And we will get to die. We will not leave without being heard.

The federal government announced a massacre of indigenous peoples, the 170 warriors, women, children, leaders and shamans who are here. This massacre is going to happen at the hands of police, Funai, and Justice.

You have killed at Teles Pires and will kill again when you need to. You killed us because we are against the dams. We know what you are capable of doing.

This time it is Norte Energia who was asked to kill us, a company which is part of the consortium and government. Norte Energia asked a federal judge, who subsequently authorized the police to beat and kill us if needed. Government of Brazil, it will be your fault if any of us die.

Enough with the violence! Stop threatening us. We want our peace and you want your war. Stop lying to the press that we are kidnapping workers and buses and causing an inconvenience. The occupation is quiet, the unrest is caused by the police sent by the judge, Norte Energia, and the government. You are the ones who are humiliating us, threating us, intimidating us, and assassinating us when you don't know what else to do...

We demand the suspension of the order to repossess the construction site, until Thursday morning, May 30th, 2013. The government needs to come here and hear us. You already know our agenda. We demand the suspension of all works and studies of dams on our lands. We demand the removal of the National Force from our lands. The lands are ours. You have wasted enough of our lands.

You want us to be tame and quiet, obeying your civilization without question. But in this case, we know you would rather see us dead because we are making noise.

Construction site of Belo Monte, Vitória do Xingu, Pará, May 29, 2013

[Tsmuktengan]

Ostensibly deformed information. I do not trust this tumblr blog now.

...a government does not announce a massacre.

[Toruk Makto]

New update people. The indigenous people have now occupied the construction site for the Belo Monte Dam, and governmental police have shown up on the site where they are.
The federal gouvernment have also announced a massacre of indigenous peoples, the 170 warriors, women, children, leaders and shamans who are here. This massacre is going to happen at the hands of police, Funai, and Justice.

This note has also shown up on Amazon Watch. I believe the Brazilian government's statement is that the occupiers will be "removed", not "massacred", so I am not sure why they used that word, unless they are intentionally ramping up the rhetoric. That may actually be harmful, though.

[Tsmuktengan]

Then this is not serious from Amazon Watch then. Very disappointing. Any allegations of such gravity has to be sustained by unquestionable proofs.

[Clarke]

New update people. The indigenous people have now occupied the construction site for the Belo Monte Dam, and governmental police have shown up on the site where they are.
The federal gouvernment have also announced a massacre of indigenous peoples, the 170 warriors, women, children, leaders and shamans who are here. This massacre is going to happen at the hands of police, Funai, and Justice.

This note has also shown up on Amazon Watch. I believe the Brazilian government's statement is that the occupiers will be "removed", not "massacred", so I am not sure why they used that word, unless they are intentionally ramping up the rhetoric. That may actually be harmful, though.

I imagine because they'll go the opposite of quietly, which would make it very hard to remove them without killing them.

[Tsmuktengan]

Absolutely not. And anyway, I am awaiting the proofs of what they say.

[Raiden]

I don't know where all that other stuff was coming from, but there is some news...

http://indiancountrytodaymedianetwork.com/2013/06/09/indigenous-belo-monte-protestors-confront-brazilian-government-officials-149789

They could just bring some poison darts. Nobody would hear anything but the sounds of dead bodies slumping in their cozy office-chair coffins.

[allrock123]

I addressing the Belo monte dam project we realy need to take a look at our own past history with large dam projects and there
impacts on native peoples, projects like the Tennessee Valley Authority and Hydro Quebec both forcefuly moved native peoples under
protest of the flooding of ancestral homelands as well as gravesites the history of many of these projects have been forgoten in time
but they delt with the same moral and ethical issues. finding a way to address the core ethical human costs to the Brazilan people
(Go to the people not the goverment) pointing out and and shaming those companys funding the building the dam as well as the
sources of its money trail and finding tools that let the Global people "Core see" the human costs of this project should be the goals
of any amazon support group , if the goverment wont listen to a voice of reason "The people will" and rember in part pointing out
the shareholders funding this project might work where the politics game "Falls on deaf ears"     

[Raiden]

So? That won't fix the problem.

"The problem" being that Brazil is mistakenly trying to to emulate the U.S. as it tries to modernize.

Unfortunately, the U.S. has not set a good example of how to become a world power without decimating natural resources, especially in regards to hydropower.

Hydropower is a sustainable source of energy, but only in the sense that nothing is consumed to produce the energy.

In terms of the "true" meaning of sustainable energy, it is as far from it as fossil fuels. It wrecks habitat and can single-handedly cause the extinction of especially delicate species and/or delicate ecosystems.

But Brazil needs more energy, and there are already a lot of people living in poor conditions; being surrounded by rivers, streams, creeks, and swamps, it would only be natural that hydropower is the first thing to come to mind.

But then we're back at square one, where Brazil is forced to damage the delicate ecosystems of the Amazon basin in order to survive.

The solution is simple; it's not a miraculous new means of producing energy, or some radical new technology.

If we (we being developed nations/countries) want to try and keep places like the amazon basin from being destroyed by "fledgling" countries, we need to step in and help them grow responsibly. This would be things like paying Brazil to keep the forests and rivers and to keep the indigenous peoples and their culture from crumbling. We could give them technologies like solar and nuclear or algal biofuels, and then they could pay us or something later for the help.

The US and many of the European/Mediterranean countries, along with Asia, control vast amounts of wealth, and we sit on it while we complain about the awful/stupid things that other countries do.

It's the same as as a lifeguard at a swimming pool making fun of a drowning person while they sit on a stack of life preservers.

[Toruk Makto]

Latest:

http://amazonwatch.org/news/2013/0613-eye-on-brasilia-indigenous-resistance-to-dams-persists

[Teylar Ta Palulukankelku]

Irayo for the article, ma Toruk Makto  . Not that the things stated in it surprises me  ...

And you, ma Raiden, nailed it perfectly regarding the larger issue facing the indigenous and the Brazilian government  . We (first and foremost Europe and North America) have to help them reach better alternatives, since whatever decision the Brazilian government will make next will, in one way or another, affect everyone else on a global basis.