Author Topic: No thanks  (Read 1505 times)

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Offline Eltu Lefngap Makto

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No thanks
« on: February 01, 2012, 10:21:32 pm »
This has got to be translated into Na'vi, when we get the vocabulary!

In June 1744, the College of William & Mary invited the Indians of the Six Nations to send 12 young men to be “properly” educated. They received this reply:

Quote
We know that you highly esteem the kind of learning taught in those Colleges, and that the Maintenance of our young Men, while with you, would be very expensive to you. We are convinc’d, therefore, that you mean to do us Good by your Proposal; and we thank you heartily. But you, who are wise, must know that different Nations have different Conceptions of Things; and you will therefore not take it amiss if our Ideas of this kind of Education happen not to be the same with yours. We have had some Experience of it: Several of our young People were formerly brought up at the Colleges of the Northern Provinces; they were instructed in all your Sciences; but when they came back to us, they were bad Runners, ignorant of every means of living in the Woods, unable to bear either Cold or Hunger, knew neither how to build a Cabin, take a Deer, or kill an Enemy, spoke our Language imperfectly, were therefore neither fit for Hunters, Warriors, or Counsellors; they were totally good for nothing. We are, however, not the less oblig’d by your kind Offer, tho’ we decline accepting it; and, to show our grateful Sense of it, if the Gentlemen of Virginia will send us a Dozen of their Sons, we will take great Care of their Education, instruct them in all we know, and make Men of them.
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Offline Tsyal Maktoyu

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Re: No thanks
« Reply #1 on: February 02, 2012, 01:45:18 pm »
Awesome.  ;D

I wouldn't mind an education by the Six Nations.  :D


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Offline Lolet

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Re: No thanks
« Reply #2 on: February 02, 2012, 05:45:59 pm »
So they went to college and forgot everything they knew before?

Offline Eltu Lefngap Makto

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Re: No thanks
« Reply #3 on: February 02, 2012, 05:53:22 pm »
I think it's more like they missed the training they would've received as young men.
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Offline Tsmuktengan

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Re: No thanks
« Reply #4 on: February 02, 2012, 07:11:50 pm »
Hmm, very interesting.

I am thinking about this making a parallell with the technology we now use, compared to previous practices and what we fail to know by our dependance on electronic devices (we would so easily be lost without our SatNav in most cases). Even if each 'people' as various groups each have their own conception of education, practices and of what is "correct", there are basics that should not be forgotten -, to know how things basically work in reality.


Offline 'Oma Tirea

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Re: No thanks
« Reply #5 on: February 05, 2012, 04:59:36 am »
Hmm, very interesting.

I am thinking about this making a parallell with the technology we now use, compared to previous practices and what we fail to know by our dependance on electronic devices (we would so easily be lost without our SatNav in most cases). Even if each 'people' as various groups each have their own conception of education, practices and of what is "correct", there are basics that should not be forgotten -, to know how things basically work in reality.

Indeed, and there are too many lost arts, such as a true oneness with nature.

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Offline Tsmuketsyìp Tìyawnä

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Re: No thanks
« Reply #6 on: February 05, 2012, 11:04:14 am »
It would be a wonderful experience to have an education from the Six Nations!  :o

Offline Kamean

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Re: No thanks
« Reply #7 on: February 05, 2012, 12:41:47 pm »
Interesting :)
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Offline Teylar Ta Palulukankelku

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Re: No thanks
« Reply #8 on: February 05, 2012, 12:53:16 pm »

Me gusta

Especially the part at:

Quote
We are, however, not the less oblig’d by your kind Offer, tho’ we decline accepting it; and, to show our grateful Sense of it, if the Gentlemen of Virginia will send us a Dozen of their Sons, we will take great Care of their Education, instruct them in all we know, and make Men of them.

Freakin' spot on roflmao  :) ;D!
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Offline Tsmuktengan

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Re: No thanks
« Reply #9 on: February 05, 2012, 03:20:02 pm »
Hmm, very interesting.

I am thinking about this making a parallell with the technology we now use, compared to previous practices and what we fail to know by our dependance on electronic devices (we would so easily be lost without our SatNav in most cases). Even if each 'people' as various groups each have their own conception of education, practices and of what is "correct", there are basics that should not be forgotten -, to know how things basically work in reality.

Indeed, and there are too many lost arts, such as a true oneness with nature.

I do not know if this is art, but I certainly see there an ability to think in a different way and approach other interesting concepts, and therefore a greater ability to adapt our own way of life in various ways.


Offline allrock123

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Re: No thanks
« Reply #10 on: February 17, 2017, 07:57:49 pm »
This life's story from Onondaga Chief Oren Lions "reflects" on this topic quite a powerful story on many levels
 ..


 

Offline Aka`ula

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Re: No thanks
« Reply #11 on: February 17, 2017, 08:40:05 pm »
That reply was very nice to read  :). I would love to try and live in a place where currency didn't exist, and where the education wasn't the 'system' it is today (Elementary > Middle School > High School > College > 20-60 years of Career > Retire   Hate that every time I think of it, and because I am a freshman in college now!  >:( ). Have to keep all the remaining widespread forest and different cultures like the indigenous peoples alive and growing, or we will be in more trouble  :(.

Offline Tirea Aean

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Re: No thanks
« Reply #12 on: February 17, 2017, 09:40:31 pm »

#FTFY

Yeah. This is freakin awesome.  That humble decline tho. 

Actually, this is sad. Very sad only, in fact.  For it is true.

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Offline Vawmataw

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Re: No thanks
« Reply #13 on: February 18, 2017, 07:58:40 am »
I think we now have enough vocab to translate it, as requested by OP. I'll work on it.

Offline allrock123

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Re: No thanks
« Reply #14 on: February 18, 2017, 10:24:23 am »
Again Trying to Build on this ,, One can Bring up the core Symbolism and historical roots of the Two Row Wampum,, and how these perspectives have evolved into modern times ,,  The "Ship" and the "Canoe" moving down the river of life "linked Today" with a rusty Covent Chain that needs polishing ..

When peoples come together of Diffrent Ethos perspectives,, a "Bridge" or a common Bond must be established so multi-generational feelings can be root addressed and that peoples can come to "See" each other with clarity the example of the "Rusty linking chain" between the ships
has as much meaning today as it did back then ,, the strutures creating the "rust" must be made Visible
most North American Native peoples hold a Core "spiritual perception of reality" its important to note  The "Creator" or better said "Creation force" is seen as both a male and female "force" "mother earth" and "Father sky" its   
not seen or looked upon in the same way as a "god" or "gods" the force in star wars is probably a good cross example
this confuses many people,, who try and look at these issues through the Ethos lens of a "Religious perspective of reality"
the creation force is not worshiped but given "humble" thanks , there is no fear control structures , there is an internal locus of control.
       
 
« Last Edit: February 18, 2017, 11:36:47 am by allrock123 »

Offline Vawmataw

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Re: No thanks
« Reply #15 on: February 18, 2017, 11:14:43 am »
This has got to be translated into Na'vi, when we get the vocabulary!
Here's my try:

Quote
We know that you highly esteem the kind of learning taught in those Colleges, and that the Maintenance of our young Men, while with you, would be very expensive to you. We are convinc’d, therefore, that you mean to do us Good by your Proposal; and we thank you heartily. But you, who are wise, must know that different Nations have different Conceptions of Things; and you will therefore not take it amiss if our Ideas of this kind of Education happen not to be the same with yours. We have had some Experience of it: Several of our young People were formerly brought up at the Colleges of the Northern Provinces; they were instructed in all your Sciences; but when they came back to us, they were bad Runners, ignorant of every means of living in the Woods, unable to bear either Cold or Hunger, knew neither how to build a Cabin, take a Deer, or kill an Enemy, spoke our Language imperfectly, were therefore neither fit for Hunters, Warriors, or Counsellors; they were totally good for nothing. We are, however, not the less oblig’d by your kind Offer, tho’ we decline accepting it; and, to show our grateful Sense of it, if the Gentlemen of Virginia will send us a Dozen of their Sons, we will take great Care of their Education, instruct them in all we know, and make Men of them.

Tì’efumì ayngengeyä fìfnesänume nawm luyu. Fwa vewng ayoeyä sutanit ayngal ngäzìk lu a fì’ut ayoel omum. Ha, ayoel spaw futa ayngari kem lu tsankum fa fìätxäle ulte tsari irayo seiyi. Ngian, txantslusam lu a ayngal omum futa fayolo’ ìl kame kifkeyt nì’fya’o aketeng ulte tslayam futa fpìlfya sänumeyä ayoeyä ke mllte pumhu ayngeyä. Lalmu ayoeru lie afe’. ‘A’awa sute ayoeyä kalmä ne ayNumtsenge ayAtxkeyä a Io. Fratìftiari ayngeyä fo nalmume, slä krra tolätxaw, ke tsolun tivul, na’rìngit ivinan ulte tìohakxhu sì tìwewhu emrivey. Ke tsolun kelkut txivula, ioangit tivaron ulte kxutut tspivang. Lì’fyari ayoeyä fo ke poltxem nìfya’o asìltsan. Ke lolu saronyu, samsiyu fu aymowar-siyu taluna ke lolu sìltsan kaw’it. Ayoe zene mivllan ayngeyä ätxälet atstunwi, hufwa sto tsakem sivi. Fte ayngaru irayo sivi, txo fpive’ vosìnga tutet aySutanìl a ftu Virtsyìnia, tsakrr ayoel fot vayewng ulte sleykayu for fyeyntut.

Offline Blue Elf

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Re: No thanks
« Reply #16 on: February 18, 2017, 03:01:49 pm »
Here's my try:

Quote
We know that you highly esteem the kind of learning taught in those Colleges, and that the Maintenance of our young Men, while with you, would be very expensive to you. We are convinc’d, therefore, that you mean to do us Good by your Proposal; and we thank you heartily. But you, who are wise, must know that different Nations have different Conceptions of Things; and you will therefore not take it amiss if our Ideas of this kind of Education happen not to be the same with yours. We have had some Experience of it: Several of our young People were formerly brought up at the Colleges of the Northern Provinces; they were instructed in all your Sciences; but when they came back to us, they were bad Runners, ignorant of every means of living in the Woods, unable to bear either Cold or Hunger, knew neither how to build a Cabin, take a Deer, or kill an Enemy, spoke our Language imperfectly, were therefore neither fit for Hunters, Warriors, or Counsellors; they were totally good for nothing. We are, however, not the less oblig’d by your kind Offer, tho’ we decline accepting it; and, to show our grateful Sense of it, if the Gentlemen of Virginia will send us a Dozen of their Sons, we will take great Care of their Education, instruct them in all we know, and make Men of them.

Tì’efumì ayngengeyä fìfnesänume nawm luyu. Fwa vewng ayoeyä sutanit ayngal ngäzìk lu a fì’ut ayoel omum. Ha, ayoel spaw futa ayngari kem lu tsankum fa fìätxäle ulte tsari irayo seiyi. Ngian, txantslusam lu a ayngal omum futa fayolo’ ìl kame kifkeyt nì’fya’o aketeng ulte tslayam futa fpìlfya sänumeyä ayoeyä ke mllte pumhu ayngeyä. Lalmu ayoeru lie afe’. ‘A’awa sute ayoeyä kalmä ne ayNumtsenge ayAtxkeyä a Io. Fratìftiari ayngeyä fo nalmume, slä krra tolätxaw, ke tsolun tivul, na’rìngit ivinan ulte tìohakxhu sì tìwewhu emrivey. Ke tsolun kelkut txivula, ioangit tivaron ulte kxutut tspivang. Lì’fyari ayoeyä fo ke poltxem nìfya’o asìltsan. Ke lolu saronyu, samsiyu fu aymowar-siyu taluna ke lolu sìltsan kaw’it. Ayoe zene mivllan ayngeyä ätxälet atstunwi, hufwa sto tsakem sivi. Fte ayngaru irayo sivi, txo fpive’ vosìnga tutet aySutanìl a ftu Virtsyìnia, tsakrr ayoel fot vayewng ulte sleykayu for fyeyntut.
doesn't look bad. IMO meaning is kept, I'll try to look if something can be improved.
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Offline Vawmataw

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Re: No thanks
« Reply #17 on: February 18, 2017, 03:25:54 pm »
doesn't look bad. IMO meaning is kept, I'll try to look if something can be improved.
There's always something to improve. ;)

Offline Blue Elf

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Re: No thanks
« Reply #18 on: February 24, 2017, 05:06:32 pm »
doesn't look bad. IMO meaning is kept, I'll try to look if something can be improved.
There's always something to improve. ;)
so, here's my version (more literal):

Ayoel omum futa ayngari fìfnesänume a fko nume mì faynumtseng lu swey ulte futa vewng 'ewana sutanit ayoeyä lu ngäzìk sì ep'ang. Spaw futa ayoeri aynga new sweya kem sivi ulte tsari ayoe irayo seiyi fa 'änsyema txe'lan.

Slä aynga sko aysute atxantslusam zene ivomum futa ketenga ayolo'ur lu fpìlfya aketeng, tafral ran tìnusumeyä ayoeyä ke lu teng pxel pum ayngeyä. Lu ayoer fìlie: Hola 'ewana sutanit ayoeyä fkol kolar mì aynumtseng ayatxkxe ayngeyä; fratìftiari ayngeyä fo namume; slä krra tolätxaw ke tsolun tivul, na’rìngit ivinan ulte emrivey tengkrr 'efu ohakx fu wew. Ke omum fya'ot a txula kelkuti, taron yerikit fu kxutut tspang. Lì'fyati ayoeyä fol wätx, tafral fo ke ha' fte slivu saronyu, samsiyu fu aymowarsiyu; frakemìri fo wätx nì'aw.

Stxenu ayngeyä lu tstunwi hufwa ayoel sto tsat, ngian fte wivìntxu tìtstunwit nì'eyng, txo sute a ta Virtsyìniya fpe' ayoru vosìnga 'itanit sneyä, ayoe vayewng sì kayar fot nìfya'o aswey, tìng foru fratìomumit a smon ayoer fte slivu fyeyn.
Oe lu skxawng skxakep. Slä oe nerume mi.
"Oe tasyätxaw ulte koren za'u oehu" (Limonádový Joe)


 

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