The truth about 2012 "from the horse's mouth"

[Teylar Ta Palulukankelku]

The world won't 'be transformed' either. It's an arbitrary date

Arbitrary in what way, ma HNM  ?

It's not based on any specific time or event, it's not a countdown to one. It could as easily have been started 10 years earlier or later, or 5000 years earlier or later - the number of the year doesn't cause events to happen other than when humans see a certain coincidence in it (e.g. 2000)

So if the Y2K-hysteria was because of people being scared of what would happen to the computers when a new millenia started, why do some of us get so hysterical when we hear about the Mayan calendar and 2012  ?

Anyway; Irayo for the info  !

[Vawm tsamsiyu]

Of course no one seems to ask why we would Belive the Mayans even if they did predict a doomsday. They may have been good at atronomy but that doesn't mean they can predict the end of the world

[Human No More]

The world won't 'be transformed' either. It's an arbitrary date

Arbitrary in what way, ma HNM  ?

It's not based on any specific time or event, it's not a countdown to one. It could as easily have been started 10 years earlier or later, or 5000 years earlier or later - the number of the year doesn't cause events to happen other than when humans see a certain coincidence in it (e.g. 2000)

So if the Y2K-hysteria was because of people being scared of what would happen to the computers when a new millenia started, why do some of us get so hysterical when we hear about the Mayan calendar and 2012  ?

Anyway; Irayo for the info  !

There's no reason; that's the point. There is only ONE date to worry about where the problem is caused by the date, and that's in 2038, where any 32-bit system using a singned integer for time will overflow (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Year_2038_problem).

[Irtaviš Ačankif]

Well, will there be any plain 32-bit computers by 2038? At least the old 32 bit computers left should be using PXE (a.k.a. 36 bit) operating systems anyway...

Off topic: why doesn't Ubuntu ship the PXE kernel by default in its x86 version but instead the generic 32bit one which doesn't support >3GB RAM? Some computers with non-64bit CPUs (such as older Intels) have more than 3 G's of RAM.

[Teylar Ta Palulukankelku]

Of course no one seems to ask why we would Belive the Mayans even if they did predict a doomsday. They may have been good at atronomy but that doesn't mean they can predict the end of the world

Good point, ma Vawm  .

['Oma Tirea]

Well, Dec 21 2012 is simply when the Mayan calendar runs out. It would be a big problem if everybody used Mayan calendars - it would be much worse than Y2K since you need to reinvent the calendar! It is simply a *technical* limitation of the Mayan calendar, just like Y2K is a *technical* limitation of super old computer clocks.

I think that all that happened there, was that they ran out of rock, and didn't want to bother with cutting a new one, as THAT one ended so far "in the future" for them. In the interim, their entire empire fell apart, so no one made a new calender.  This will be the same as Y2K, and EVERY "doomsday" before it, the next morning the Sun will rise, and everyone who believed that folly will have to endure the jokes of the rest of us for a while.
Niri Te

It'll be strangely sad if there's a radical population decrease due to suicide because of such a strong belief in this date being "the end".

Fat chance

[Teylar Ta Palulukankelku]

Well, Dec 21 2012 is simply when the Mayan calendar runs out. It would be a big problem if everybody used Mayan calendars - it would be much worse than Y2K since you need to reinvent the calendar! It is simply a *technical* limitation of the Mayan calendar, just like Y2K is a *technical* limitation of super old computer clocks.

I think that all that happened there, was that they ran out of rock, and didn't want to bother with cutting a new one, as THAT one ended so far "in the future" for them. In the interim, their entire empire fell apart, so no one made a new calender.  This will be the same as Y2K, and EVERY "doomsday" before it, the next morning the Sun will rise, and everyone who believed that folly will have to endure the jokes of the rest of us for a while.
Niri Te

It'll be strangely sad if there's a radical population decrease due to suicide because of such a strong belief in this date being "the end".

Fat chance

Call me cold-hearted, but look at it this way: Our already over-populated Earth wouldn't be so over-populated anymore. Plus; I bet most of the people committing suicide would be the fanatics of the Abrahamic religions, Christianity in particular (I'm not trying to condemn Christians as a whole, i'm just saying it would ``weed out some undesireables´´  .). I bet quite many Christian sects would commit mass suicide on ``the day of the Rapture´´ out of fear. Sadly, many of the members in these sects are merely brainwashed by their manipulative leaders, so there'd be a lot of ``innocents´´ killing themselves because their leaders tell them to  . I just wish those asses would just kill themselves and leave the poor people they have in their grasps alone  . Like that Camping fellow  . The idiot ``predicted´´ the end of the world to occur last spring (sometime in late May, i believe  ) just like he previously had ``predicted´´ the end of the world in 1998 (i think  )  . Anyway; That day a friend of mine was at my place (it was in the weekend) and we hung out. We ``knew´´ the world was going to end at a specific time that day (6 p.m., i think  ) and we were watching clips on Youtube when the end was supposed to come, and when the clock hit the exact time i said (as a joke, of course, although we did spur eachother on with some sort of weird excitement about the whole thing  ): ``Maybe it's the sun that becomes extinguished  ? In that case, we won't notice until in 8 minutes  .´´ 8 mintues passed. Nothing happened. I think we said to eachother that we wouldn't be surprised if Camping would hang himself or something because of his failure. I believe we (or at least i  ) thought something in the sense of ``In your face!´´ about the whole thing  .

Bottom line: I'm a proud survivor of an apocalypse and if i've survived the last one, i might as well survive the one on December 21^st  .

[Lolet]

Anyone who thinks he knows when Jesus is coming back is a fool. "No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven." Mark 13:32. So I don't think you'd have a whole lot of Christians offing themselves. We think Camping is just as crazy as you do.

Also, I may have misunderstood you, but are you actually glad for the deaths of others, just so it lowers the population? 

[Teylar Ta Palulukankelku]

Anyone who thinks he knows when Jesus is coming back is a fool. "No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven." Mark 13:32. So I don't think you'd have a whole lot of Christians offing themselves. We think Camping is just as crazy as you do.

Also, I may have misunderstood you, but are you actually glad for the deaths of others, just so it lowers the population? 

I'm not saying a lot of Christians would kill themselves on December 21^st, i'm just saying that i think most of the people that'd kill themselves would be Christian (or at least the fanatical cults and sects)  .

Hmm... I recognize that quote from the Bible. Indeed, the nutcase Camping should read this and thoroughly think about what it means  .

On the issue of over-population: Yes and no. I'm sort of a humanitarian (not in all aspects of the word, though) who want people to have their health and be happy, but at the same time i believe in quality over quantity, in this case meaning i think it's bad that many of the so-called ``third-world-countries´´ are overpopulated and where many people are dying, sick and suffering  ; I'd rather have a few healthy people than many people in misery  .

[Lolet]

Teylar, Christians aren't likely to kill themselves because of a calendar based on a non-Christian culture. It's not like Jesus flew down from the heavens on a pair of golden llamas and blessed the Mayans with special knowledge. 

Regarding overpopulation, I always thought people suffered because their countries were ruled by crazed madmen, constant warfare, lack of education, AIDS, and natural disasters. They suffer because they're developing countries, without the benefits of a stable government and good leadership. Not to mention the religious wars. That stuff belongs in the 1600s. 

[Amaya]

It's not like Jesus flew down from the heavens on a pair of golden llamas and blessed the Mayans with special knowledge. 

Awwwwww, he didn't?  Too bad, that sounds marvelously epic 

[Vawm tsamsiyu]

Regarding overpopulation, I always thought people suffered because their countries were ruled by crazed madmen, constant warfare, lack of education, AIDS, and natural disasters. They suffer because they're developing countries, without the benefits of a stable government and good leadership. Not to mention the religious wars. That stuff belongs in the 1600s. 

And lack of education. Alot of the starvation and disease problems would be less severe if they were smarter

[Niri Te]

And lack of education. Alot of the starvation and disease problems would be less severe if they were smarter

And they would be a WHOLE LOT better off AND healthier if they would not insist on making so many babies that
1) they could not HOPE to feed them all,
2) their population density would be so high that any communicable disease would run rampant through their population in a very short time.
Niri Te

[Teylar Ta Palulukankelku]

Teylar, Christians aren't likely to kill themselves because of a calendar based on a non-Christian culture. It's not like Jesus flew down from the heavens on a pair of golden llamas and blessed the Mayans with special knowledge.

Ma Lolet, when you just say ``Christians´´ it almost sound like you think i mean all Christians  . FYI i don't but i guess you already knew that  . Just checkin'  . And i've heard about Christian doomsday sects preparing for the apocalypse. One has even fulfilled their plans and committed mass suicide (Their cowardly leader survived though AFAIK  .). Does Waco, Texas ring a bell  ?

Regarding overpopulation, I always thought people suffered because their countries were ruled by crazed madmen, constant warfare, lack of education, AIDS, and natural disasters. They suffer because they're developing countries, without the benefits of a stable government and good leadership. Not to mention the religious wars. That stuff belongs in the 1600s. 

Ma Lolet, i think Niri Te explained it better than i ever could:

And they would be a WHOLE LOT better off AND healthier if they would not insist on making so many babies that
1) they could not HOPE to feed them all,
2) their population density would be so high that any communicable disease would run rampant through their population in a very short time.
Niri Te

I very much agree with him.

It's not like Jesus flew down from the heavens on a pair of golden llamas and blessed the Mayans with special knowledge. 

Awwwwww, he didn't?  Too bad, that sounds marvelously epic 

HRH ladies  !

[Lolet]

I don't think the women in the countries we're talking about "insist" on having so many children. I've heard that the better educated a woman is, the less children she has. It would also help if laws against child brides were more strongly enforced. After all, these people are quite intelligent, they've simply not had the same opportunities as us.

[Alyara Arati]

I don't think the women in the countries we're talking about "insist" on having so many children. I've heard that the better educated a woman is, the less children she has. It would also help if laws against child brides were more strongly enforced. After all, these people are quite intelligent, they've simply not had the same opportunities as us.

Thank you.  Try reading The Boy Who Harnessed the Wind.  Africa has third world countries, not third class minds.

[Teylar Ta Palulukankelku]

I don't think the women in the countries we're talking about "insist" on having so many children. I've heard that the better educated a woman is, the less children she has. It would also help if laws against child brides were more strongly enforced. After all, these people are quite intelligent, they've simply not had the same opportunities as us.

Thank you.  Try reading The Boy Who Harnessed the Wind.  Africa has third world countries, not third class minds.

Indeed. I believe that the women in those countries feel that they have to give birth to so many children because they'll be their ``socioeconomic safety net´´ when they grow old since those countries in general don't have much in the way of health insurances. Which, as you guys mentioned earlier, brings in the factor of education:

Good education = Well-paying job = Better economy = Less need for many children to take care of you when you can't work or take care of yourself = Less children.

I'd also like to point out the great amount of wisdom you guys have  . Some of these things you say here are perfectly spot on  .