A True Myth

[Eltu Lefngap Makto]

Even if no one responds, let me just say that this intermediate board is the coolest spot and everyone here is so awesome.  I've learned so much here and I thank you.

Mì sngä'ikrr ngolmop Yawäl tawit sì Eywat.	In the beginning, God created the sky and Eywa.
Eywari, ke lu tìkan, ke tok tìhawlìl, ulte tìvawm lu io txukxa mefay. Slä lerìng mefayio Yawäyä tirea.	For Eywa, there was no purpose, no inhabited preparations, and darkness was above the deep two waters. But God's spirit was floating above the two waters.
Yawä parmlltxe san lu atan sìk ulte atan larmu.	God said, "Be there light," and there was light.
Yawäl karmameie atanit ulte za'armärìp tìvawmit atanta.	God *saw* the (good) light and pulled the darkness from the light.
Atunur syarmaw Yawä Trr, ulte tìvawmur syarmaw Txon.	God called the light Day and he called the darkness Night.
Kaym leru, ulte rewon leru. 'Awvea trr lolu.	There was evening, and there was morning. It was the first day.
Yawä parmlltxe san lu lewo mefaymìkam ulte za'ärìp payti payta tsa'ul sìk.	God said, "Be there a certain cover between the two waters and let that pull the water from the water."
Sleykarmu Yawäl leworu ulte za'armärìp payit a lewäo payta a lewio.	God produced a certain cover and pulled the water below the cover from the water above the cover.
Fìfya lereiu.	Thus it was!
Lewru syarmaw Yawä Taw.	God called the cover Sky.
Kaym leru, ulte rewon leru. Muvea trr lolu.	There was evening, and there was morning. It was the second day.
Yawä parmlltxe san stäpeykarsìm 'awa tsengsìn pay fte wivìntxu ukxoa atxkxet sìk.	God said, "Let water gather itself to one place in order to show the dry land."
Fìfya lereiu.	Thus it was!
Ukxoa atxkxeru syarmaw Yawä Eywa, ulte stawnarsìma payru syarmaw Txampay.	God called the dry land Eywa, and he called the being-gathered water Oceans.
Yawäl mesa'uti karmameie.	God *saw* the (good) two.

[Sireayä mokri]

I don't really want to go into some kind of religious debate, but phrase "God created Eywa" seems really weird to me since Eywa herself is "god". Maybe just use atxkxe?

[eejmensenikbenhet]

I don't really want to go into some kind of religious debate, but phrase "God created Eywa" seems really weird to me since Eywa herself is "god". Maybe just use atxkxe?

I would call God Eywa and call land just atxkxe or 'eveng (Eywa'eveng)...
Mì sngä'ikrr ngolmop Eywal tawit sì poeyä 'eveng.
In the beginning, Eywa created the sky and her child.

[Sireayä mokri]

I would call God Eywa and call land just atxkxe or 'eveng (Eywa'eveng)...
Mì sngä'ikrr ngolmop Eywal tawit sì poeyä 'eveng.
In the beginning, Eywa created the sky and her child.

I agree, but, in my opinion, the biblical God and Eywa are not the same "kind" of deity. I mean that Na'vi treat her rather as Mother then as an "almighty entity".

[Eltu Lefngap Makto]

From what I was able to discern from the movie, Eywa is a conscious being just as we -- humans -- are.  Are mind is created through the interconnection of billions of neurons in our brains.  Eywa is the super-Gaia of Pandora and her brain is main up of the interconnected trees and creatures across the surface of her world.  One would never say that Eywa is physical located anywhere but on Alpha Centauri A3a.  Without a tsaheylu one cannot even talk to her.  God (as opposed to a god, lowercase 'g') is thought of in all monotheistic religions as trans-temporal, trans-spacial, indeed trans-finite.  God has no body, no one physical location.

I imagined myself talking to a Neytiri and needed to express that God created beautiful, blue Polyphemus and its moons above, 'Rrta which she has heard about, and the planet on which she walks and flies.  If God presided over Pandora before Eywa could've even existed, then it would be important not just to say God made Eywa'eveng, but Eywa herself.

Sooooooo, no grammar mistakes?!?! 

eejmensenikbenhet: wouldn't that have to be sneyä 'eveng?

[Sireayä mokri]

Just for thought: how could Eywa "send" all these animals during "battle for Ayvitrayä Ramunong" without all of them being "connected" at the same time, if one needs to have tsaheyhu to communicate with her?

Alright, back on topic. Speaking of mistakes:

Sleykarmu Yawäl leworu I think should be Tsalewti Yawäl ngolop.

Use stäparsìm ne 'awa tseng pay instead of stäpeykarsìm 'awa tsengsìn pay.

The rest seems correct to me.

eejmensenikbenhet: wouldn't that have to be sneyä 'eveng?

Yes, it has.

[Eltu Lefngap Makto]

Just for thought: how could Eywa "send" all these animals during "battle for Ayvitrayä Ramunong" without all of them being "connected" at the same time, if one needs to have tsaheyhu to communicate with her?

I think I extrapolated from this thread (especially the beginning):
http://forum.learnnavi.org/navi-customs-and-culture/different-navi-languages-tsaheylu/
and this wikia entry:
http://james-camerons-avatar.wikia.com/wiki/Direhorse

Spoiler

"Herds often move in unison shortly after touching antennae."

I figured the instructions could be given to just one animal and then "herd mentality" would take over and dictate the precise timing.  She controls the evolution and design of every species, so they all "obey" her.

Sleykarmu Yawäl leworu I think should be Tsalewti Yawäl ngolop.

Is it wrong to want use a different word instead of ngop over and over again?  This is probably an English-speakers aversion.  I like the tsa-!

Use stäparsìm ne 'awa tseng pay instead of stäpeykarsìm 'awa tsengsìn pay.

I struggled the most with this sentence: I really miss the passive voice!    Are you saying that <äp> (with nothing in the dative) is "make the <subject> <verb>"?  In this case, "make the water collect to one place"?

[Sireayä mokri]

Is it wrong to want use a different word instead of ngop over and over again?  This is probably an English-speakers aversion.

You can use sleyku if you wish, but you still need to put patientve case ending on lew.

I struggled the most with this sentence: I really miss the passive voice!    Are you saying that <äp> (with nothing in the dative) is "make the <subject> <verb>"?  In this case, "make the water collect to one place"?

It's not passive voice, for that use fko as agent. <äp> is reflective infix: water gathers itself. For "make the <subject> <verb>" it's just <eyk>.

[eejmensenikbenhet]

eejmensenikbenhet: wouldn't that have to be sneyä 'eveng?

Just copied that from you

[Eltu Lefngap Makto]

It's not passive voice, for that use fko as agent. <äp> is reflective infix: water gathers itself. For "make the <subject> <verb>" it's just <eyk>.

But then what's the subject?  If it's imperative, are you commanding someone to do it, or just "that it be done" i.e. passive?

Just copied that from you

Nice 

[Sireayä mokri]

But then what's the subject?  If it's imperative, are you commanding someone to do it, or just "that it be done" i.e. passive?

<äp> shows that subject performs an action on itself. So the subject is pay.

[`Eylan Ayfalulukanä]

Tsa`u lu tweti  nang to see a translation of Genesis 1!

As to the Eywa stuff, did you see my comments in the Bible thread?

[Eltu Lefngap Makto]

<äp> shows that subject performs an action on itself. So the subject is pay.

Thanks: I got lost in the quotes and was thinking of <eyk>.

I feel pretty good about this translation of Genesis 1:1-10 from the Hebrew, ma smuk.  Irayo. 
Ma 'Eylan Ayfalulukanä, I posted a theological reply there, but this thread was for grammar double-checking.  In short, Eywa -- as sa'nu Eywa'evengyä -- is more fundamentally "earth"/eretz in Genesis 1 than atxkxe is.  We should save atxkxe for "ground"/adamah in Genesis 2:5. 

Spoiler

Mì sngä'ikrr ngolmop Yawäl tawit sì Eywat.
Eywari, ke lu tìkan, ke tok tìhawlìl, ulte tìvawm lu io txukxa mefay. Slä lerìng mefayio Yawäyä tirea.
Yawä parmlltxe san lu atan sìk ulte atan larmu.
Yawäl karmameie atanit ulte za'armärìp tìvawmit atanta.
Atunur syarmaw Yawä Trr, ulte tìvawmur syarmaw Txon.
Kaym leru, ulte rewon leru. 'Awvea trr lolu.
Yawä parmlltxe san lu lewo mefaymìkam ulte za'ärìp payti payta tsa'ul sìk.
Sleykarmu Yawäl tsalewti ulte za'armärìp payit a lewäo payta a lewio.
Fìfya lereiu.
Lewru syarmaw Yawä Taw.
Kaym leru, ulte rewon leru. Muvea trr lolu.
Yawä parmlltxe san stäparsìm ne 'awa tsenge pay fte wivìntxu ukxoa atxkxet sìk.
Fìfya lereiu.
Ukxoa atxkxeru syarmaw Yawä Eywa, ulte stawnarsìma payru syarmaw Txampay.

[Sireayä mokri]

We should save atxkxe for "ground"/adamah in Genesis 2:5. 

We got kllte for ground.

[Eltu Lefngap Makto]

We got kllte for ground.

True. True.  I misspoke.  OK, so let me lay out a few reasons to translate eretz/earth in Genesis 1:1 as Eywa and not atxkxe.  (Before anything, let me say that I am NOT advocating always translating earth as Eywa. There are lots of times where we could've easily translated the Hebrew into English as 'territory' and those would be clear cases of atxkxe.)

• Genesis 1 was originally intended as a polemic against Babylonian creation myths.  There is precious little about the scope or extent of anything done, which is why it had to be expounded on in Genesis 2-3.  The goal of the passage is to set forth Elohim/God as eternal and uncreated, indeed the creator of all things.
• The Na'vi people worship Eywa, but not as an eternal, omnipotent being.  Genesis 1 is asserting the ontology, the asciety of God over against all other deities, so not to mention Eywa would be to miss the point entirely.
• Only very recently in human history did we start talking about "the Earth" vs. "the universe".  It had always been just "the world".  Na'vi kifkey seems to be very much in line with "physical world" (as opposed to spiritual) because tìftia kifkeyä comes from that root.  Consider how 'physics' comes from Greek "fusis"/nature.  The Na'vi call their planet "Eywa's child"; they do not conceive of their world apart from her.  I think they would talk about the atxkxe Omatikayayä and the atxkxe of the Pa'li Olo'. Eywa, as a term, is bound to the planet as a whole, the way we talk about "Mother Earth".
• eretz/land in Hebrew is personified repeatedly in the Bible.  In Leviticus 18:28 it pukes polluters out.  In Leviticus 26:34 it has a rest and a Sabbath.  In Numbers 32:29 it is subdued.  In Isaiah 34:7 it gets drunk with blood! (Battle of ayVitrayä Ramunong, anyone?)  In Isaiah 62:4 it get married!   In Zechariah 12:12 it mourns.  The Na'vi would read this and be inextricably drawn to think of Eywa, mother of the earth, who's body and brain IS the earth.
• Most esoterically, the New Testament moves from earth to world, from the Chosen Land of Israel to the entire created cosmos.  Old Testament passages which talk about the land change in the New Testament's usage to talking about the globe.  Eywa is the Na'vi's special treasure in one, isolated corner of the universe.  Eywa is a wonderful gift of God, but she -- like all physical things -- should draw our eyes "upward" to the heavenly kingdom of eternity (cp Hebrews 11).

[Plumps]

This thread is probably better suited in the Bible child board!

[Eltu Lefngap Makto]

Sorry for that diatribe.  People wanted to know my reason for word choices, and they were all religious.

[Kä'eng]

Is this supposed to be describing the creation of Earth or of Pandora?

If it's the former, I don't think it makes sense to talk about Eywa.

If it's the latter, then (aside from the claim of YHWH creating Eywa seeming somewhat blasphemous) that's going to create a serious continuity problem, because most of the Bible clearly takes place on Earth.

[Eltu Lefngap Makto]

Is this supposed to be describing the creation of Earth or of Pandora?

If it's the former, I don't think it makes sense to talk about Eywa.

If it's the latter, then (aside from the claim of YHWH creating Eywa seeming somewhat blasphemous) that's going to create a serious continuity problem, because most of the Bible clearly takes place on Earth.

Finally, someone who sees the forest, not the just the trees!  I take my cues from Frommer, who mixes "in-universe" treatment with tongue-in-cheek, meta-criticism.  The text I'm translating is not neutral; I would say it is the mother-of-all persuasive essays.  As a translator of such, I have to know my target audience and aim squarely at them.

Let's be honest folks, there are no Na'vi to persuade.  On the other hand, the we Tawtute who have taken the time to learn Na'vi are pretending Avatar is real.  The Good Book makes no provision for aliens are other inhabited planets.  The only way for it to make any kind of sense leNa'vi is on Pandora.  Continuity was shot before we began translating!

[Sireayä mokri]

Well, if are talking about the Na'vi point of view, the best word for Earth is 'Rrta. They got their own myths about creation of their world.