Author Topic: Anglicisms  (Read 517 times)

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Offline Vawmataw

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Anglicisms
« on: April 06, 2019, 02:36:41 pm »
What if we listed/discussed the common anglicisms of Na'vi, excluding sentences that are close to Na'vinglish?

Rewon/ha'ngir/kaym lefpom is the first one that I think of.
« Last Edit: April 06, 2019, 04:59:12 pm by Vawmataw »

Offline Eìrä

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Re: Anglicisms
« Reply #1 on: April 06, 2019, 04:31:46 pm »
What if we listed/discussed the common anglicisms of Na'vi, excluding sentences for which words were translated from English?

Rewon/ha'ngir/kaym lefpom is the first one that I think of.
??? hmmm, that sounds interesting!
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Offline Mech

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Re: Anglicisms
« Reply #2 on: April 07, 2019, 02:14:28 am »
I like to thing of anglicisms as elements that were introduced by the human explorers and students, perhaps to fill some gap. Eg. perhaps it was not within Na'vi culture to say "good morning" so it was a concept intrduced by humans. I have noticed this studying some native exotic languages, for example I have heard that in Hawaiian there was no concept of thanking someone, but they use the word "mahalo" after that concept was introduced by the europeans.

Offline Plumps

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Re: Anglicisms
« Reply #3 on: April 09, 2019, 02:09:04 pm »
Even more so, since Karyu Pawl said at one point (in the Good Morning America document) that trr lefpom is the appropriate greeting in all circumstances and that *rewon/kaym lefpom is not a Na’vi concept (if one can call that).

Here’s an example where the community will use something so frequently that people/ayzìma’uyu will just adopt those phrases.

Do you mean Anglicism as word-for-word translations? Or concepts?

I have to bring up emza’u, then. For a learner coming from a Germanic/Romanic background, “overcome” for “to pass (a test)” makes no sense and was (still is) a thorn from an English background :P tì’efumì oeyä

Also, släkop … when ki exists.

If I should explain some of them in more detail, please tell me.

Offline Mech

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Re: Anglicisms
« Reply #4 on: April 11, 2019, 02:08:02 am »
What's the issue with "pass a test"?

Offline Eìrä

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Re: Anglicisms
« Reply #5 on: April 11, 2019, 02:34:46 am »
But, what is the meaning of "Anglicisms" ???
I'm asking myself for a pretty long while! :)
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Offline Mech

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Re: Anglicisms
« Reply #6 on: April 11, 2019, 04:09:31 am »
Anglicism is an idiom that exists only in english, are expressed this way only in english, and seem unreasonable in the context of other languages and can't be translated. It happens when you "think english" while speaking another language.

For example the expression "get up". If you don't know the French translation you might try to translate word-by-word "get" and "up" to French that would result to something meaningless or irrelevant like "prendre en haut" (take something upwards??). This is an extreme and silly example of anglicism just to show what I mean.

Frommer did a good job developing a language with many exotic elements, but since he is an english speaker, unavoidably he was "thinking english" sometimes, and some idiomatic features that exist in English and no other language, also slipped into Na'vi. In-universe it can be explained as human influence, or a coincidence (not impossible at all).

But I have no specific examples :-/

Offline Eìrä

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Re: Anglicisms
« Reply #7 on: April 11, 2019, 04:16:22 am »
Anglicism is an idiom that exists only in english, are expressed this way only in english, and seem unreasonable in the context of other languages and can't be translated. It happens when you "think english" while speaking another language.

For example the expression "get up". If you don't know the French translation you might try to translate word-by-word "get" and "up" to French that would result to something meaningless or irrelevant like "prendre en haut" (take something upwards??). This is an extreme and silly example of anglicism just to show what I mean.

Frommer did a good job developing a language with many exotic elements, but since he is an english speaker, unavoidably he was "thinking english" sometimes, and some idiomatic features that exist in English and no other language, also slipped into Na'vi. In-universe it can be explained as human influence, or a coincidence (not impossible at all).

But I have no specific examples :-/
Thanks! :D
Now i know! :D where can i say something to Pawl Frommer?
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Offline Plumps

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Re: Anglicisms
« Reply #8 on: April 11, 2019, 01:35:26 pm »
What's the issue with "pass a test"?

Taking it from your cue of translating word for word ;) In German “overcome” means “to do something/something happens to you in the spur of the moment”. Our meaning of “pass (a test), overcome an obstacle” is „bestehen“ (lit.: stand) or „überstehen“ (lit.: over-stand) :P

Offline Eìrä

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Re: Anglicisms
« Reply #9 on: April 11, 2019, 01:38:55 pm »
What's the issue with "pass a test"?

Taking it from your cue of translating word for word ;) In German “overcome” means “to do something/something happens to you in the spur of the moment”. Our meaning of “pass (a test), overcome an obstacle” is „bestehen“ (lit.: stand) or „überstehen“ (lit.: over-stand) :P
Eltur tìtxen si nìtxan! :D
Oe tsun pivlltxe nìNa'vi nìteng ma eylan! Oel ayngati kameie nìwotx! 'Rrta lu oeyä kelku!

FÌTSENGE LU AWNGEYÄ!
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Nìolo' Pxoeng Seykxel Ma Eylan!

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Offline Mech

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Re: Anglicisms
« Reply #10 on: April 11, 2019, 10:13:19 pm »
I see. I think etymologically the meaning of emza'u seems to mean something like "come through" = "pass"? Speaking about the Na'vi, a "test" would refer not a to a written exam of course but a physical trial.

So I imagine something like hot embers and spikes in a training ground, and, from the point of view of those waiting at the other side, one has to come through the trials to succeed aka pass the test. Not sure how blatant anglicism it is. 
« Last Edit: April 11, 2019, 10:21:06 pm by Mech »

Offline Nyx

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Re: Anglicisms
« Reply #11 on: April 30, 2019, 08:31:44 am »
Also, släkop … when ki exists.

If I should explain some of them in more detail, please tell me.[/size][/font]

Isn't there a difference between these though? The way I got it is that ki is an exclusive 'but', as in "I don't want cake, but pie". And släkop is inclusive, as in "I want cake, but also pie". Or do you mean that there's an overlap between these making släkop redundant?

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Re: Anglicisms
« Reply #12 on: May 05, 2019, 01:52:01 pm »
Isn't there a difference between these though? The way I got it is that ki is an exclusive 'but', as in "I don't want cake, but pie". And släkop is inclusive, as in "I want cake, but also pie". Or do you mean that there's an overlap between these making släkop redundant?

I can only speak from the German language point of view where there is a difference between „aber“ (but, slä) and „sondern“ (but rather, ki). We construct our “not only … but also …” with „nicht nur … sondern (auch) …“

So I would have expected Na’vi to be (since it has ki) *ken’aw … kikop … or something along those lines. I am biased by German but that’s how it is in my language. :D

Offline Nyx

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Re: Anglicisms
« Reply #13 on: May 06, 2019, 05:43:10 am »
Isn't there a difference between these though? The way I got it is that ki is an exclusive 'but', as in "I don't want cake, but pie". And släkop is inclusive, as in "I want cake, but also pie". Or do you mean that there's an overlap between these making släkop redundant?

I can only speak from the German language point of view where there is a difference between „aber“ (but, slä) and „sondern“ (but rather, ki). We construct our “not only … but also …” with „nicht nur … sondern (auch) …“

So I would have expected Na’vi to be (since it has ki) *ken’aw … kikop … or something along those lines. I am biased by German but that’s how it is in my language. :D

Oh I see, that totally makes sense too. I'm coming from Swedish and we have "utan" for your "sondern", but for that construction we'd use the slä version, so it didn't even hit me that you could do it that way. I like the sound of kikop too, haha.

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Re: Anglicisms
« Reply #14 on: May 06, 2019, 02:09:09 pm »
Oh I see, that totally makes sense too. I'm coming from Swedish and we have "utan" for your "sondern", but for that construction we'd use the slä version, so it didn't even hit me that you could do it that way. I like the sound of kikop too, haha.

That’s interesting :-\
My Swedish is not that good yet to know that … but interesting that there is a language where it is almost parallel to Na’vi.

 

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