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Because

Started by GEOvanne, June 05, 2011, 05:42:32 PM

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GEOvanne

I finding many words for 'because' in the dictionary, but I'm not sure which one to use.
I want to say: "I don't want to go because I am tired" or "Don't do that because it is dangerous"
I'm thinking that 'alunta' would go there.

But there are also tafral, talun and taweyk   :-\

Prrton

Quote from: GEOvanne on June 05, 2011, 05:42:32 PM
I finding many words for 'because' in the dictionary, but I'm not sure which one to use.
I want to say: "I don't want to go because I am tired" or "Don't do that because it is dangerous"
I'm thinking that 'alunta' would go there.

But there are also tafral, talun and taweyk   :-\

Tafral is for THEREFORE:

 A and B, TAFRAL C.

I don't want to go TALUN I am tired. (It is the REASONING of your mind you are focusing on. It is not logical to go if you are tired.)

I don't do that TAWEYK it is dangerous. (It is the CAUSE that is most important. The danger is life threatening.)

If the danger is really not that big, but you are a risk-averse person in general then:

 I don't do that TALUN it is dangerous. (Your thinking is guiding you more than the existential danger.)


GEOvanne

#2
Oohhhh, I see now,

So it would be: "I hunt TAWEYK I am a hunter" but "I won't eat that TALUN it taste nasty" ?

Prrton

Quote from: GEOvanne on June 05, 2011, 06:12:45 PM
Oohhhh, I see now,

So it would be: "I hunt TAWEYK I am a hunter" but "I won't eat that TALUN it taste nasty" ?

YES.

Or even better for TAWEYK:

  I run TAWEYK the thanator wants to eat and is chasing me.

   ;D


Tswusayona Tsamsiyu

also you probably noticed that there's taluna and alunta and same thing for taweyka and aweykta.
taluna is when the reason is after the result. for example: I want more cake taluna it is tasty.
alunta is when the reason is before the result (free word order allows it). for instance: this cake is tasty alunta I want more.
talun is just a short form of taluna and is used like it.

the same thing goes with taweyka, aweykta, taweyk.
Nivume Na'vit, fpivìl nìNa'vi, kivame na Na'vi.....
oer fko syaw tswusayona tsamsiyu

Txonä Unil Stä'nìyu Rolyusì

#5
Quote from: Prrton on June 05, 2011, 05:51:45 PM
Quote from: GEOvanne on June 05, 2011, 05:42:32 PM
I finding many words for 'because' in the dictionary, but I'm not sure which one to use.
I want to say: "I don't want to go because I am tired" or "Don't do that because it is dangerous"
I'm thinking that 'alunta' would go there.

But there are also tafral, talun and taweyk   :-\

Tafral is for THEREFORE:

  A and B, TAFRAL C.

I don't want to go TALUN I am tired. (It is the REASONING of your mind you are focusing on. It is not logical to go if you are tired.)

I don't do that TAWEYK it is dangerous. (It is the CAUSE that is most important. The danger is life threatening.)

If the danger is really not that big, but you are a risk-averse person in general then:

  I don't do that TALUN it is dangerous. (Your thinking is guiding you more than the existential danger.)

So, based on this, I have a question: would it be considered wrong if I said 'I don't do that talun it is dangerous' ? The way I see this sentence is the reasoning of my mind tells me it's dangerous so I don't do it.

-Txonä Rolyu




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#6
Quote from: Txonä Te Unil Stä'nìyu Rolyusì on June 06, 2011, 08:46:34 PM
Quote from: Prrton on June 05, 2011, 05:51:45 PM
Quote from: GEOvanne on June 05, 2011, 05:42:32 PM
I finding many words for 'because' in the dictionary, but I'm not sure which one to use.
I want to say: "I don't want to go because I am tired" or "Don't do that because it is dangerous"
I'm thinking that 'alunta' would go there.

But there are also tafral, talun and taweyk   :-\

Tafral is for THEREFORE:

  A and B, TAFRAL C.

I don't want to go TALUN I am tired. (It is the REASONING of your mind you are focusing on. It is not logical to go if you are tired.)

I don't do that TAWEYK it is dangerous. (It is the CAUSE that is most important. The danger is life threatening.)

If the danger is really not that big, but you are a risk-averse person in general then:

  I don't do that TALUN it is dangerous. (Your thinking is guiding you more than the existential danger.)

So, based on this, I have a question: would it be considered wrong if I said 'I don't do that
talun it is dangerous' ? The way I see this sentence is the reasoning of my mind tells me it's dangerous so I don't do it.

-Txonä Rolyu

Ma Txonä I agree there.

I think taweyk is more like

Sempul: Ma 'ite pelun nga tsngawvìk?
'ite: Taweyk Txewìl oeti tìmakuk.

or even

Pelun kerusey lu fìyerik?
Skxakep taweyka taronyul pot tspolang

'Oma Tirea

Quote from: Tswusayona Tsamsiyu on June 06, 2011, 06:54:43 AM
also you probably noticed that there's taluna and alunta and same thing for taweyka and aweykta.
taluna is when the reason is after the result. for example: I want more cake taluna it is tasty.
alunta is when the reason is before the result (free word order allows it). for instance: this cake is tasty alunta I want more.
talun is just a short form of taluna and is used like it.

the same thing goes with taweyka, aweykta, taweyk.

...except aweykta is not yet comfirmed.

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Tirea Aean

Quote from: 'Oma Tirea on June 06, 2011, 10:13:19 PM
Quote from: Tswusayona Tsamsiyu on June 06, 2011, 06:54:43 AM
also you probably noticed that there's taluna and alunta and same thing for taweyka and aweykta.
taluna is when the reason is after the result. for example: I want more cake taluna it is tasty.
alunta is when the reason is before the result (free word order allows it). for instance: this cake is tasty alunta I want more.
talun is just a short form of taluna and is used like it.

the same thing goes with taweyka, aweykta, taweyk.

...except aweykta is not yet comfirmed.



This is true. I didn't catch that the first time. Though It wouldn't surprise me to find that it is legitimate. for now, use taweyk(a)

`Eylan Ayfalulukanä

Txona, I think you are on the right track with your thinking. The shades of meaning between these terms is small. To use some additional mixed examples:

The first two sentences are forms of 'cause and effect' sentences, but they have quite different meanings, and uses:

The acid ate the metal taweyk it is corrosive. I used taweyk here because it means 'based on the cause'. I am establishing that the metal is damaged because of the corrosive acid. I am watching it happen.

A very similar sentence: The acid ate the metal, tafral it is corrosive. Here, we are drawing a conclusion because we observed the effect of the acid upon the metal.

The third sentence is a little more cerebral, because a direct effect is not being observed. Instead the speaker is inferring from knowledge on a subject, rather than actually experiencing it. Furthermore, the reason given is given as a kind of matter-of-fact, rather than a conclusion.

The acid eats metal talun it is corrosive.

This is kind of useful, and is definitely worth understanding the little differences between these words.


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GEOvanne

So would it be ok if I used talun for all instances of because (at least until I get better)?

Tirea Aean

Quote from: GEOvanne on June 10, 2011, 10:12:25 PM
So would it be ok if I used talun for all instances of because (at least until I get better)?

It would be understood, yeah. Talun seems to be much more common that taweyk anyway.

Tanri

#12
Sorry about this (almost) necroposting, but allow me to present a explanation of these conjunctions, based of their roots and created from some strange central european point of view ;D.
Please have in mind that this is a explanation that may be correct, may be wrong. I don't know little differences that may exist between czech and english explanations of "meaning, cause, reason".
Many thanks to Blue Elf for excellent translation, all errors are exclusively mine.

tafral - ta fìral / from this meaning (not "from this meaning, which is", relative "-a-" missing)
Sentence has meaning "Something is happening therefore something different happens / can happen". Because of missing relative -a- we do not explain this meaning but it works only as connector: "A so B". It only expresses relation between two actions. To this time, we don't have alternative form for reversed order of sentences.

taweyka - ta oeyk a /  because of
Here we explain cause: "Something is hapening because of something different".
"A because B", where B is cause of A. Cause means, that something really occurs, that action B is really direct cause of A.

taluna - ta lun a / from that reason, which is
Very similar to taweyka, "A from the reason B", where B is reason of A.
But (according to me) difference is that reason (unlike of cause) don't have to express real action, but can be based on knowledge or assumption.
Because these connectors contains relative -a-, they are one-way and for reverse sentence order we must to use their reverse variants (taweyka -> aweykta, taluna -> alunta).

The shortened variants of these two conjunctions (taweyk, talun) have the same meaning as with "a" at the end, because they are shortened only for better pronounciation, not for modify the meaning.
Tätxawyu akì'ong.

Tswusayona Tsamsiyu

I think that tafral isn't two-way. that can cause confusion on what is the cause and what is the effect. instead, we use it in a separate sentence.
Nivume Na'vit, fpivìl nìNa'vi, kivame na Na'vi.....
oer fko syaw tswusayona tsamsiyu

Tanri

#14
Yes, about tafral i am unsure. When i look at them now, not in a late night while fighting drowsiness ::), i am definitely not sure about bidirecionality. Removing the notice about it.
I was probably mistaken by direct comparison with taweyka/taluna, which contain "a" that causes them to be one-directional.
Sorry about that.

Edit: I was just consulted this with experienced language teacher, and it is definitely one-way only.
Tätxawyu akì'ong.