Colloquialism "Then it came to be that"

Started by Eltu Lefngap Makto, January 25, 2011, 11:08:22 PM

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Eltu Lefngap Makto

Old fashioned stories, in a variety of languages, have the recurring phrase, "And then it came to be that" or "now it happened to be that" or some such variation.

In Na'vi, does it seem right to begin

l<arm>en a

and then just resume normal grammar?  Modern English usually skips all such things, even the beginning 'and's and 'then's.
'Ivong, Na'vi!

`Eylan Ayfalulukanä

Quote from: Eltu Lefngap Makto on January 25, 2011, 11:08:22 PM
Old fashioned stories, in a variety of languages, have the recurring phrase, "And then it came to be that" or "now it happened to be that" or some such variation.

In Na'vi, does it seem right to begin

l<arm>en a


This does not work, because ken is a noun, and you can't infix a noun.

Here are a couple of ideas, neither of which I am absolutely sure is right.

Tsakrr lolen tsa`u a ...

Set lolen tsa`u a ...

A lot of little words that are commonly used in English (like the, an) do not appear in Na`vi. It takes some discipline to 'think in Na`vi', which is something I am still learning myself.....

Yawey ngahu!
pamrel si ro [email protected]

Eyawng te Klltepayu

I thought he said len rather than ken

maw krrìl atxan ftalmem fìtsenget...     ???
Please tell me if you see mistakes in a Na'vi post of mine. It's the only way I'll learn. :P

Kan oe trro fnivan lì'fyat leNa'vi frapoto a foru ke sunängu rel arusikx alu Uniltìrantokx.

Eltu Lefngap Makto

'Ivong, Na'vi!

`Eylan Ayfalulukanä

oe kawng. The l< looked like a k when looked at in a hurry.

Yawey ngahu!
pamrel si ro [email protected]

wm.annis

This isn't a colloquialism, it's a calque from Hebrew that got propagated along with Christianity.

I think `Eylan Ayfalulukanä was on the right path for this, but there's a little refinement to this that can simplify the expression even more.

The grammar for "it happens that X" is to nominalize the phrase for "X" and then drop that into a sentence with len.  This is normally handled by attaching the phrase to a form of fì'u this with attributive a (these have some contracted forms, fwa for fì'u a, etc).

  Len fwa eveng uvan si.
  It happens that children play.

Back in June we learned that forms of tsa'u that can also be used in this construction, with the connotation of well-established knowledge, which may or may not be appropriate for this idiom.

`Eylan Ayfalulukanä

Quote from: wm.annis on January 26, 2011, 06:31:13 PM
This isn't a colloquialism, it's a calque from Hebrew that got propagated along with Christianity.

You learn something every day!

Quote from: wm.annis
The grammar for "it happens that X" is to nominalize the phrase for "X" and then drop that into a sentence with len.  This is normally handled by attaching the phrase to a form of fì'u this with attributive a (these have some contracted forms, fwa for fì'u a, etc).

  Len fwa eveng uvan si.
  It happens that children play.

I had thought that a fwa construction might be appropriate here, but couldn't quite figure out how. Thanks for showing the way.

Prrton, in tutoring me through the Neytiri project, encouraged me to learn the pronouns, and in the process of doing that, the prenouns. That has been very helpful in trying to use words like tsa`u properly. And since the source was your reference grammar, you in a sense, taught me that.

Yawey ngahu!
pamrel si ro [email protected]