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due to

Started by Alyara Arati, November 25, 2012, 03:55:44 PM

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Alyara Arati

We now have an example from K. Pawl on how to use talun as "due to".  Does this extend to talunaAlunta?

They would seem to be more of a conjunction because of the -a-, but what I know about grammar fits in a thimble.
Learn how to see.  Realize that everything connects to everything else.
~ Leonardo da Vinci

Tirea Aean

It's really all the same meaning, in essence, right? Because, due to... what's the difference, really? :-\

The thing that was new is to be able to use talun with a single noun, which before, it was only to be used to introduce a reason clause.

To say, "[...]due to this: <PHRASE>"... How is that different from saying, "[...]because <PHRASE>"?

:3 :)

That's how I see it anyway.

This post had me excited thinking we just got a new update on the language. Should this be moved to /vocab-phrases? *shrug*

Alyara Arati

Sorry I put it in the wrong place.  I thought that I had a question about a language update, but by all means, move it if that seems good to you.

And what I meant was, can you use taluna or alunta with a single noun.  Obviously I should have been more specific.
Learn how to see.  Realize that everything connects to everything else.
~ Leonardo da Vinci

Tirea Aean

OH! :-[

Personally, I wouldn't. I don't see a reason to, because of using talun with a single noun. :-\ the a changes things, I think.

Alyara Arati

I was just thinking it would be really cool to be able to say something like:

Tsakemìri 'erefu keftxo poe alunta.

I was working on a poem, but I can rewrite, or scrap it.
Learn how to see.  Realize that everything connects to everything else.
~ Leonardo da Vinci

Tanri

I agree with Tirea.
"Talun" without "a" is an adposition, while "taluna/alunta" are conjunctions.
So after taluna I have to expect a sub-clause, even with some constituents unspoken. However I can't found any example of single noun with remaining parts of the sub-clause being completely omitted.

The English translations are slightly different:
taluna - because
talun - because of, due to
"because" is just a conjunction, while the latter ones prompt me that they must be followed by a noun.

Quote from: Alyara Arati on November 26, 2012, 07:18:34 AM
I was just thinking it would be really cool to be able to say something like:
Tsakemìri 'erefu keftxo poe alunta.
I was working on a poem, but I can rewrite, or scrap it.
Why not, looks perfect to me (if followed by some main clause ;)).
On the other hand, when you leave it as it is, I am unable to understand it meaningfully.
Tätxawyu akì'ong.

`Eylan Ayfalulukanä

Very interesting, and quite useful. If Tanri's reasoning is solid, it looks like a few changes to the dictionary are in order. That said, this might be a good one to bounce off of K. Pawl first.

Yawey ngahu!
pamrel si ro [email protected]

Tirea Aean

Quote from: Alyara Arati on November 26, 2012, 07:18:34 AM
I was just thinking it would be really cool to be able to say something like:

Tsakemìri 'erefu keftxo poe alunta.

I was working on a poem, but I can rewrite, or scrap it.

If talun REALLY can be used like an ADP., then it should be able to be attached to the end,

That would seem to mess up any possible rhyme and consistent meter though. :(

Blue Elf

Quote from: Tirea Aean on November 26, 2012, 07:16:07 PM
If talun REALLY can be used like an ADP., then it should be able to be attached to the end,
it is:
talun–: [ta."lun] PF adp. because of, due to
http://naviteri.org/2012/03/spring-vocabulary-part-1/
QuoteTì'i'ari tsamä zene Sawtute vivelek talun* tìtxur Eywayä.
'At the end of the war, the Sky People had to give up due to the power of Eywa.'

*Note: Here, talun is functioning as an adposition (ADP-) with the meaning of 'because of, due to.'
Oe lu skxawng skxakep. Slä oe nerume mi.
"Oe tasyätxaw ulte koren za'u oehu" (Limonádový Joe)


Alyara Arati

So I could say... tìtxurtalun Eywayä?  I seems kind of strange to me, but also kind of cool. :)
Learn how to see.  Realize that everything connects to everything else.
~ Leonardo da Vinci

Blue Elf

As it is adposition, such usage should be correct, although I'd probably not use it this way (too strange for me too :)).
Oe lu skxawng skxakep. Slä oe nerume mi.
"Oe tasyätxaw ulte koren za'u oehu" (Limonádový Joe)


Kemaweyan

Hmm.. I've completely forgotten this example, but it's really interesting. It seems like russian preposition «из-за» and that's very useful. Thanks a lot! ;)
Nìrangal frapo tsirvun pivlltxe nìNa'vi :D

Irtaviš Ačankif

Adpositions can always be put in the end, and I usually write like (it makes it look nicer and less like a dumb analytic language) that unless things like adjectives make the grammar look funny.
Previously Ithisa Kīranem, Uniltìrantokx te Skxawng.

Name from my Sakaš conlang, from Sakasul Ältäbisäl Acarankïp

"First name" is Ačankif, not Eltabiš! In Na'vi, Atsankip.

Prrton


It is ADP-. I don't see why it's not used any differently than tafkip, which is formed essentially the same way.