Author Topic: Fraw  (Read 380 times)

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Offline Kemaweyan

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Fraw
« on: July 09, 2016, 07:07:16 pm »
I thought, since tsa'u could become tsaw, is it possible that fra'u becomes fraw too? We already have the word frawzo derived from fra'u + zo and fra'u becomes fraw there. So is it possible to use fraw in sentences by itself? :-\
Nìrangal frapo tsirvun pivlltxe nìNa'vi :D

Offline Vawmataw

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Frau
« Reply #1 on: July 09, 2016, 07:49:06 pm »
Syllable structure correctness
Logic
Usage ?

I think it's correct. I think it would be OK to use it and maybe fra'u is already contracted orally (hypothesis).
However, am I right?

« Last Edit: July 10, 2016, 05:38:55 pm by Vawmataw »

Offline Kemaweyan

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Re: Fraw
« Reply #2 on: July 09, 2016, 08:07:26 pm »
Syllable structure correctness
Logic
Usage ?

I think it's correct. I think it would be OK to use it and maybe fra'u is already contracted orally (hypothesis).
However, am I right?

I think it should be completely similar to tsaw. And it's easier to pronounce, I think :)

Nìrangal frapo tsirvun pivlltxe nìNa'vi :D

Offline Tìtstewan

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Re: Fraw
« Reply #3 on: July 10, 2016, 05:25:36 am »
Hey, I like it and it looks logical for me. We should ask Pawl if we can use fraw too. :)


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Offline Kemaweyan

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Re: Fraw
« Reply #4 on: July 10, 2016, 06:31:32 am »
Also if hypothetically fraw is correct, could there be fral, frat, frar, frari? :)
Nìrangal frapo tsirvun pivlltxe nìNa'vi :D

Offline Vawmataw

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Re: Frau
« Reply #5 on: July 10, 2016, 09:48:14 am »
Probably too. Who can e-mail Karyu Pawl?
« Last Edit: July 10, 2016, 05:39:04 pm by Vawmataw »

Offline Tanri

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Re: Fraw
« Reply #6 on: July 10, 2016, 04:16:03 pm »
Personally, I don't like this idea.
The short forms of tsa’u have one single purpose: to make noun-connected subordinate clauses as short and clean as possible:

Palulukan a tsati tsole’a oel trram, lam yehakx oer.

This pronoun - tsa’u/tsaw is unique, because it is used as a replacement of the noun the subordinate clause is connected to. Therefore it's used very often and tends to be shortened as much as possible.
I don't see this kind of motivation for such shortening of another, less frequently used pronoun. Fra’u pronoun does not play an important role in the structure of the main/subordinate clauses.
Also remember the non-standard form of the plural of this demonstrative pronoun (aysa’u/sa’u).

So, as I understand, the pronoun tsa’u and its abbreviated forms is something special and this mechanism should not be freely applied to any other nouns and pronouns.
Pivlltxe, perlltxe, parmlltxe...

Offline `Eylan Ayfalulukanä

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Re: Fraw
« Reply #7 on: July 10, 2016, 06:32:55 pm »
I'm thinking this question has come up before. But when and where,  I don't remember.

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Offline Tay'waro

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Re: Fraw
« Reply #8 on: July 11, 2016, 02:01:43 pm »
Personally, I don't like this idea.
The short forms of tsa’u have one single purpose: to make noun-connected subordinate clauses as short and clean as possible:

Palulukan a tsati tsole’a oel trram, lam yehakx oer.

This pronoun - tsa’u/tsaw is unique, because it is used as a replacement of the noun the subordinate clause is connected to. Therefore it's used very often and tends to be shortened as much as possible.
I don't see this kind of motivation for such shortening of another, less frequently used pronoun. Fra’u pronoun does not play an important role in the structure of the main/subordinate clauses.
Also remember the non-standard form of the plural of this demonstrative pronoun (aysa’u/sa’u).

So, as I understand, the pronoun tsa’u and its abbreviated forms is something special and this mechanism should not be freely applied to any other nouns and pronouns.

   You said correctly. I support you completely.

Offline Tìtstewan

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Re: Fraw
« Reply #9 on: July 12, 2016, 01:35:14 am »
Even if Pawl doesn't approve fraw, one could say it as fraw in fast speach. :-\

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Offline Blue Elf

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Re: Fraw
« Reply #10 on: July 13, 2016, 01:44:49 pm »
Personally, I don't like this idea.
The short forms of tsa’u have one single purpose: to make noun-connected subordinate clauses as short and clean as possible:

Palulukan a tsati tsole’a oel trram, lam yehakx oer.

This pronoun - tsa’u/tsaw is unique, because it is used as a replacement of the noun the subordinate clause is connected to. Therefore it's used very often and tends to be shortened as much as possible.
I don't see this kind of motivation for such shortening of another, less frequently used pronoun. Fra’u pronoun does not play an important role in the structure of the main/subordinate clauses.
Also remember the non-standard form of the plural of this demonstrative pronoun (aysa’u/sa’u).

So, as I understand, the pronoun tsa’u and its abbreviated forms is something special and this mechanism should not be freely applied to any other nouns and pronouns.
All this. I understand forms like tsal, tsat, tsar, tsari more like not abbreviations of tsa'ul, tsa'ut, tsa'ur, tsau'ri (forms of "that thing"), but like forms of "it, that" (so tsa here works not like prefix, but like independent or full word). I don't see any wide and reasonable usage of fraw, fral, frat etc.
Contractions of 'u to w can be seen also in
z<us>a'u + krr (comming time) = zusawkrr (future)
and it's just contraction for better pronunciation. IMHO The same is valid for
fra'u + zo (everything is as it should be) = frawzo (all O.K.)
More similar examples probably do not exist.

No need to search for some hidden magic :)
Oe lu skxawng skxakep. Slä oe nerume mi.
"Oe tasyätxaw ulte koren za'u oehu" (Limonádový Joe)


 

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