He made me to do it

[Blue Elf]

Today I was trying to translate a few lines into Na'vi and result is this devilish question: how to say "He made me to do it"?

Let's think together. There's no problem with transitive verbs:
Oel taron yerikit -> I hunt hexapede.
To form sentence "He made me to hunt hexapade", we add <eyk>, old subject goes into dative, new subject is added and object do not change:
Pol oeru teykolaron yerikit.
No problem. But what if verb is intransitive?

Oe tsakem si -> I do that (that action).
Now try to do the same changes as above: old subject goes into dative, new subject is added, object do not changes (it even can't - it is not present with intransitive verb):
*Pol oeru tsakem seykoli. -> He made me to do that action.

So, something looks wrong.... or not? We have transitive verb, subject with -l, but where's object with -(i)t?
Idea 1/ -it goes to noun part of the verb:
*Pol oeru tsakemit seykoli

Idea 2/ http://wiki.learnnavi.org/Canon/2010/UltxaAyharyu%C3%A4#Causative_for_ambitransitive_verbs
But this does not apply here, as our "base" verb is intransitive

So, is idea 1/ correct? If not, is there any idea 3/ or more, which deals with this question and can explain it? Any ideas directly from Paul?

[Tìtstewan]

THAT I ask me too!

So, something looks wrong.... or not? We have transitive verb, subject with -l, but where's object with -(i)t? Idea 1/ -it goes to noun part of the verb: *Pol oeru tsakemit seykoli

Um, do we can leave "seykoli" alone?
I thougth about someting like this:

Pol oeru kem seykoli tsakemit.
He made me to do that action.

But it looks strange for me to make "tsakem si" to "tsakemit si"...

[`Eylan Ayfalulukanä]

<eyk> makes the verb transitive, so you just add the subject case ending, and the object with its case ending, and you are good to go. The oeru becomes the indirect object, so in this case, the verb actually became ditransitive (=has direct and indirect object).

So basically, Tìtstewan is correct.

[Tìtstewan]

I thought about some examples:
Ngal oeti heykahaw.
You make me to sleep.
- make sense

Oel ngaru poti teykaron.
I make you to hunt him.
- make sense

Pol oeru tsweykolayon tsaikranit.
He made me to fly that Ikran.
- make sense

What happens, if we have no object?
Pol oeti tsweykolayon.
He made me to fly.
- make sense

Pol oeru kem seykoli tsakemit. He made me to do that action.

So it would be *theoretically*:
Pol oeti kem seykoli.
He made me to do (something).
- make sense
^That one, what `Eylan Ayfalulukanä means.

But this also could mean:
He made to do me.

[Kemaweyan]

Let's think together. There's no problem with transitive verbs:
Oel taron yerikit -> I hunt hexapede.
To form sentence "He made me to hunt hexapade", we add <eyk>, old subject goes into dative, new subject is added and object do not change:
Pol oeru teykolaron yerikit.

That's right. If the verb is transitive, we use dative for person who makes the action and the direct object does not change. But if the verb is intransitive, we use the cases conversely:

 Pol oeti srung seykoli ngar.
 He made me to help you.

So, with intransitive verbs subject becomes patient and indirect object does not change. Of course, if there is no indirect object of the action, we don't use dative:

 Oel sngeykolä'i tìkangkemit.
 I began the work. (Literally: I made the work to begin.)

An example from Canon (See Feb 15).

[`Eylan Ayfalulukanä]

But this only applies in cases where <eyk> has made an intransitive verb transitive?

[Kemaweyan]

But this only applies in cases where <eyk> has made an intransitive verb transitive?

It always makes intransitive verbs transitive Grammatically.

[Tìtstewan]

Ma `Eylan Ayfalulukanä: Horen 6.11. Causative

Edit: ninja'd

[Tirea Aean]

Let's think together. There's no problem with transitive verbs:
Oel taron yerikit -> I hunt hexapede.
To form sentence "He made me to hunt hexapade", we add <eyk>, old subject goes into dative, new subject is added and object do not change:
Pol oeru teykolaron yerikit.

That's right. If the verb is transitive, we use dative for person who makes the action and the direct object does not change. But if the verb is intransitive, we use the cases conversely:

  Pol oeti srung seykoli ngar.
  He made me to help you.

So, with intransitive verbs subject becomes patient and indirect object does not change. Of course, if there is no indirect object of the action, we don't use dative:

  Oel sngeykolä'i tìkangkemit.
  I began the work. (Literally: I made the work to begin.)

An example from Canon (See Feb 15).

This.

Pol oeti tsakem seykoli.
He made me do that.

It's no different than any other Intransitive + <eyk> = normal Transitive type of thing

[Blue Elf]

Thanks for comments and explanations.
Lam oer fwa mi zene oe nivume nìtxan.

[Tirea Aean]

Thanks for comments and explanations.
Lam oer fwa mi zene oe nivume nìtxan.

It was a good question. <eyk> can be confusing.
Frapo zene vivar nivume