Kawkrr, krr slayu nga Na'viyä hapxì!

Started by Tseyk Tìriuä, January 24, 2010, 09:42:58 PM

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Tseyk Tìriuä

I took the Kawkrr, krr slayu nga Na'viyä hapxì

as first:
X time become you part of Na'vi

and the Kawkrr meaning never as a satisfier of the "X"

So: Never time become you part of Na'vi.

Similar to aforementioned "Never, ever" but more like "Never in time" and then "you will become one of the Na'vi"


Tengkrr tìsngä'i Yawäl peyä tsenget ulte kifkey Yawä'evangäti ngamop.

suomichris

#41
AHA!  I think I figured this bit out...  I believe it to be:

"Kawken! Kaw slayu..."

This ken (pronounced by Saldana as "Kawkan") is, I think the "kem" question word formative for "how," which we have other examples of becoming an /n/ instead of an /m/ at the end of a phrase, I believe.  So this is perhaps literally, "(There is) no way!"

I think the "kaw" in the second is probably just an old form of "ke:" we don't have an explanation for what it changes in words like "kawkrr," so it might just be an old/formal version...

Thoughts?

omängum fra'uti

#42
I'm not sure why "kaw" would be pronounced with a trill..

There is a trill there.

That said, that seems like an awful lot of liberties you are taking with words and definitions to make that fit the meaning.

She also continues to shout the first word at him afterwards with just "Na'vi" after it...
Ftxey lu nga tokx ftxey lu nga tirea? Lu oe tìkeftxo.
Listen to my Na'vi Lessons podcast!

suomichris

Quote from: omängum fra'uti on January 26, 2010, 09:53:41 PM
I'm not sure why "kaw" would be pronounced with a trill..

There is a trill there.

That said, that seems like an awful lot of liberties you are taking with words and definitions to make that fit the meaning.
Well, I'm actually not taking any liberties at all; there is clearly no trill, and she clearly says "kawkan."  Not to mention that I've also listened to German dubs of this and, despite the actress having good trills everywhere else, she clearly says "kawkan" here and not "kawkrr."  I'm not going to assume that in both languages the actress made exactly the same mistake when there is a better explanation that fits the phonetics.

QuoteShe also continues to shout the first word at him afterwards with just "Na'vi" after it...
Well then you're taking just as many liberties with meaning, since "time Na'vi" makes no more sense than "way Na'vi."  I don't seem to have audio of this, though, so not sure what you're referring to here...

Actually, in listening to the second part again in German, it sounds a bit like "kawrr," so that might be the intention with the second one; the first is clearly pronounced "kawkan" in both languages, though.


omängum fra'uti

Making kan into kem seems like as much of a liberty as saying the trill got lost in the delivery/shout.

And saying that "time" makes no sense is completely dismissing the argument I made, which while it's not an identical usage it DOES show that we don't have a full understanding of the use of krr.

As far as the trill goes, to me it sticks out like a sore thumb in both the waveform, the spectrogram, and the sound...  But I guess we'll never agree on that one because the only proof we have is our own interpretations of what we see/hear.
Ftxey lu nga tokx ftxey lu nga tirea? Lu oe tìkeftxo.
Listen to my Na'vi Lessons podcast!

roger

I think the only solution, short of Frommer or a script, is to listen to dubbing in more languages. I tried Spanish. The sound quality is not the greatest (echoey), but this is what I hear:

Kawkan!

Spaniards have no trouble w their ars, and there's that a-vowel again. Both 'kawkrr' and 'kawkem' seem unlikely to be mispronounced the same way by actors w three diff language backgrounds.

((hrr)) ((sl))ayuna naviya hap'ey

Again, that odd not-quite-a-trill. I think it might be an effect of her sobbing. The pulsation is definitely there, but it sounds nothing like a Spanish trill.

((overlap)) naviya!

Can't hear her here.

Kawko!

I think, what with the shouting and the background noise, I just can't hear the vowel clearly. Pretty clearly 'kawkan' here and in the last in German.

SamuelTeEvergreenPaulitan

Actually, it's "Kawkrr! Ke slayu nga Na'viyä hapxì." Not "krr slayu" so it would very more like "Never! You not a part of the people"