LOTR ring inscription

[Nongyu te Syulang Swokioang'itan]

I was thinking about LOTR while translating some Na'vi, and the two universes sort of mixed, and I ended up trying to translate the ring inscription into Na'vi I'm sure it's been done before, but I just didn't feel like going through the whole forum to find it... Anyways, here's my attempt:

'Aw ko'onìl ayfot koren si,
'Aw ko'onìl ayfot run,
'Aw ko'onìl ayfot zamunge
ulte tìvawmì ayfot yìm

So, anyone wanna tell me how I did?

[Tìtstewan]

I guess you mean this:

,,Ash nazg durbatulûk, ash nazg gimbatul, ash nazg thrakatulûk agh burzum-ishi krimpatul" One Ring to rule them all, One Ring to find them, One Ring to bring them all and in the darkness bind them.

original English

Difficult.
'Awea ko'on fte fot livätxayn, fte fot rivun,
fte zamivunge mì sìvawm sì frakrr yivìm fot.
One ring to conquer them, to find them,
to bring in the darkness and always bind them.

[Eana Unil]

I guess you mean this:

,,Ash nazg durbatulûk, ash nazg gimbatul, ash nazg thrakatulûk agh burzum-ishi krimpatul" One Ring to rule them all, One Ring to find them, One Ring to bring them all and in the darkness bind them.

original English

Difficult.
'Awea ko'on fte fot livätxayn, fte fot rivun,
fte zamivunge mì sìvawm sì frakrr yivìm fot.
One ring to conquer them, to find them,
to bring in the darkness and always bind them.

Difficult indeed, but I like your attempt very much. Also, I think that using lätxayn here would be the best solution, since we lack a word for "rule" (still). I'd just chance the word order of the last clause of this sentence a bit, to be more close to the original:
mì sìvawm fte (fot) frakrr zamivunge sì yivìm.

By the way, why has no one tried to translate this epic inscription ever before?

[Nongyu te Syulang Swokioang'itan]

Okay, I kinda fell off... First, what does mì sìvawm mean? Can't find the root... Second, doesn't the last line change the meaning entirely? I mean, "to bring in the darkness" seems to me a bit far off from the original "bring them and bind them in the darkness."

[Eana Unil]

Okay, I kinda fell off... First, what does mì sìvawm mean? Can't find the root... Second, doesn't the last line change the meaning entirely? I mean, "to bring in the darkness" seems to me a bit far off from the original "bring them and bind them in the darkness."

That's why I changed the word order into "mì sìvawm fte (fot) frakrr zamivunge sì yivìm" - "in darkness to (them) always bring and bind" (literally translated).
So; mì sìvawm - in darkness. mì causes lenition, that's why tìvawm is changed into sìvawm, when mì stands before tìvawm. Another example: kelkumì - mì helku.

Hope I could help you.

[Tìtstewan]

The German Translation of the ring inscription is quite nice:
,,Ein Ring, sie zu knechten, sie alle zu finden,
ins Dunkel zu treiben und ewig zu binden"

mì sìvawm fte (fot) frakrr zamivunge sì yivìm.

The english version, repeating "one ring" quite often, but here you need "them".
And the english version sound weird to me, therefore I orientated me on the German version - translate the meaning, not the words

Okay, I kinda fell off... First, what does mì sìvawm mean? Can't find the root... Second, doesn't the last line change the meaning entirely? I mean, "to bring in the darkness" seems to me a bit far off from the original "bring them and bind them in the darkness."

mì sìvawm =
mì -> in
sìvawm = tìvawm -> Darkness

Second sentence:
To bring (them) in the darkness and always bind them
fte zamivunge mì sìvawm sì frakrr yivìm fot.

I tried, not to use so much fot there, since we could conntect the same concept by sì...

Edit:
Ninja'd twice!

[Eana Unil]

translate the meaning, not the words

Ngay, mllteie ngahu, but "one ring to bring them all and in the darkness bind them" and "(one ring) to bring in the darkness and always bind them" have different meanings (to me, at least ). Bring in the darkness and bind them vs. in darkness bring and bind them. Different meanings to me. To you, as well?  

That's why I changed the word order to be more close to the original (black language) and "earlier" translation (english).

Hope this makes any sense to you, heh

[Nongyu te Syulang Swokioang'itan]

Okay, I kinda fell off... First, what does mì sìvawm mean? Can't find the root... Second, doesn't the last line change the meaning entirely? I mean, "to bring in the darkness" seems to me a bit far off from the original "bring them and bind them in the darkness."

That's why I changed the word order into "mì sìvawm fte (fot) frakrr zamivunge sì yivìm" - "in darkness to (them) always bring and bind" (literally translated).
So; mì sìvawm - in darkness. mì causes lenition, that's why tìvawm is changed into sìvawm, when mì stands before tìvawm. Another example: kelkumì - mì helku. Wink

Hope I could help you.

Irayo, ma Eana Had no idea that words could cause lenition; thought only prefixes did that...

Yeah, I can see it makes more sense that way, thanks

translate the meaning, not the words

Sran, mllte oel!

[Tìtstewan]

Ma Eana Unil,
This tell me Wikipedia:
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sprachen_und_Schriften_in_Tolkiens_Welt#Schwarze_Sprache.2FOrkisch

   ,,Ash nazg durbatulûk, ash nazg gimbatul,
   ash nazg thrakatulûk, agh burzum-ishi krimpatul."

– J. R. R. Tolkien

   ,,Ein Ring, sie zu knechten, sie alle zu finden,
   Ins Dunkel zu treiben und ewig zu binden."

– In der Übertragung von Ebba-Margareta von Freymann

   ,,Ein Ring zu-knechten-sie-alle, ein Ring zu-finden-sie,
   Ein Ring zu-bringen-sie-alle, und Dunkelheit-in ewig zu-binden-sie."

– Als vorgeschlagene wörtliche Übersetzung

As for the word order, yeah...mllte ngahu

[Eana Unil]

Also, I've found something else, which may help here. To clarify the intended meaning/word order. A literal translation of the black speech original:

,,Ash nazg durbatulûk, ash nazg gimbatul,
ash nazg thrakatulûk agh burzum-ishi krimpatul"

,,Ein Ring zu-knechten-sie-alle, ein Ring zu-finden-sie,
Ein Ring zu-bringen-sie-alle, und Dunkelheit-in ewig zu-binden-sie."

"One ring to-rule-them-all, one ring to-find-them,
one ring to-bring-them-all, and darkness-in forever/eternally to-bind-them."

(Source: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sprachen_und_Schriften_in_Tolkiens_Welt#Schwarze_Sprache.2FOrkisch)

So, conclusion out of this:

...fte zamivunge sì mì sìvawm frakrr yivìm fot would be correct, no?   So we both would've been wrong here, heh



Edit:  

[eejmensenikbenhet]

I would go for the most direct (that is: not literal, but in the same style/form as the original) translation.

Ash nazg durb-atul-ûk, ash nazg gimb-atul,
One ring ruling-them-all, one ring finding-them,
'Awa ko'onìl eyk frapot, 'awa ko'onìl run fot,
One ring leads them all, one ring finds them,

ash nazg thrak-atul-ûk, agh burzum-ishi krimp-atul.
One ring bringing-them-all, (and) darnkness-in binding-them.
'Awa ko'onìl zamunge frapot, sì tìvawmì 'awstengyem fot.
One ring brings them all, and darkness-in bind them.

[Tìtstewan]

...fte zamivunge sì mì sìvawm frakrr yivìm fot would be correct, no?   So we both would've been wrong here, heh Edit:

HRH!

I would use this:
[...] fte fot zamivunge sì mì sìvawm frakrr yivìm fot.


Edit:
Oel tse'a kemit a soli nga tsatseng!

I would go for the most direct (that is: not literal, but in the same style/form as the original) translation. Ash nazg durb-atul-ûk, ash nazg gimb-atul, One ring ruling-them-all, one ring finding-them, 'Awa ko'onìl eyk frapot, 'awa ko'onìl run fot, One ring leads them all, one ring finds them, ash nazg thrak-atul-ûk, agh burzum-ishi krimp-atul. One ring bringing-them-all, (and) darnkness-in binding-them. 'Awa ko'onìl zamunge frapot, sì tìvawmì 'awstengyem fot. One ring brings them all, and darkness-in bind them.

^Totally this.

[Plumps]

Am I the only one whe doesn't see ko'on working here ... at all?

The way I understand it, ko'on is a shape, circle, circular, a rounded shape (it comes from koum + 'on after all); it's not the adornment we wear around our fingers, neck or in form of a piercing.

You can stand in a ko'on, mushrooms build a ko'on while growing, Gandalf produces a ko'on when he smokes but I'm pretty sure it's not able to rule, find, bring or much less bind anybody

[Tìtstewan]

To be honest, my first idea was to use miktsang, but..yeah...

[Plumps]

Yeah, the way pxawpxun works, I'd expect *pxawzekwä or *pxawzek. But that's just wild speculations

[Prrton]

I don't see why ioi couldn't be used.

[Tìtstewan]

By the way, why has no one tried to translate this epic inscription ever before?

If you want to translate it, how about the full text of it?

Three Rings for the Elven-kings under the sky,
Seven for the Dwarf-lords in their halls of stone,
Nine for Mortal Men doomed to die,
One for the Dark Lord on his dark throne
In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie.
One Ring to rule them all, One Ring to find them,
One Ring to bring them all and in the darkness bind them
In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie

Pxeya ioi livu ayeyktanur elwenä a äo taw,
Kinäa ioi livu ayeyktanayur tsarfìyä a mì feyä helku tskxeyä,
Volawa ioi livu sawtute a zene tìyeverkup,
'Awa ioi livu eyktanur tìvawmä a peyä vawma klltseng,
Mì atxkxe alu Mortor a tok ayukìl.
'Awa ioil eyk frapot, 'awa ioil run fot,
'Awa ioil zamunge frapot, sì tìvawmì 'awstengyem fot
Mì atxkxe alu Mortor a tok ayukìl.

[`Eylan Ayfalulukanä]

Very interesting post!

In looking at words that we have that could even remotely be used for 'ring', we forgot one - ontsang (About as useful as miktsang!). I think ioi is too generic, because if you didn't know what the incantation was about, you wouldn't know what item of apparel the incantation refers to. As far as a new word, I would expect something like zekwätsang, as this fits the paradigm of the other words we have for other jewelry. At the moment though, koʼon is the closest fit.

I very much like eejmensenikbenhet translation of the ring inscription. As this is more or less an incantation, it really does need all the redundant 'rings' in it. The only thing I would change is I would use ulte instead of sì in the last line. Thus 'Awa ko'onìl zamunge frapot, ulte tìvawmì 'awstengyem fot.

This is one thing I had always meant at sometime to translate, and one I will commit to memory!

And should you ever find a 'one ring of power', we have a machine here in Reno with enough power to destroy it, before it gets in the wrong hands

[Tìtstewan]

I very much like eejmensenikbenhet translation of the ring inscription. As this is more or less an incantation, it really does need all the redundant 'rings' in it. The only thing I would change is I would use ulte instead of sì in the last line. Thus 'Awa ko'onìl zamunge frapot, ulte tìvawmì 'awstengyem fot.

But it's more like an enumeration:
[sentence1] sì [sentence2] sì [sentence3] sì [sentence4]...
['Awa ioil eyk frapot,] ['awa ioil run fot,]
['Awa ioil zamunge frapot,] sì [tìvawmì 'awstengyem fot]


Edit:

And should you ever find a 'one ring of power', we have a machine here in Reno with enough power to destroy it, before it gets in the wrong hands

Nope, only destroyable in the Mount Doom/Amon Amarth

[Plumps]

Pxeya ioi leiu eyktanur elwenä a äo taw,
Kinäa ioi leiu eyktanayur tsarfìyä a mì feyä helku tskxeyä,
Volawa ioi leiu sawtute atawnerkup,
'Awa ioi leiu eyktanur tìvawmä a peyä vawma klltseng,
Mì atxkxe alu Mortor a klltxay ayuk.
'Awa ioil eyk frapot, 'awa ioil run fot,
'Awa ioil zamunge frapot, sì tìvawmì 'awstengyem fot
Mì atxkxe alu Mortor a klltxay ayuk.

Why ‹ei›
I'd expect ‹iv› in the sense of "they may have rings of power"
‹awn› is not possible in intransitive verbs. You can die but you can't have a *"died person" ... unless it's a dyed person
tayerkup will do the trick. Depends on who composed the poem (surely not Sauron himself).

Ah, those are the perks of poetry. "where the shadows lie" is very poetic. Isn't the meaning just ... Mortor a (tsatsengit) tok ayukìl?

In looking at words that we have that could even remotely be used for 'ring', we forgot one - ontsang (About as useful as miktsang!). I think ioi is too generic, because if you didn't know what the incantation was about, you wouldn't know what item of apparel the incantation refers to. As far as a new word, I would expect something like zekwätsang, as this fits the paradigm of the other words we have for other jewelry. At the moment though, koʼon is the closest fit.

Well, one could also argue that Tolkien used the image of "the One Ring" only as a metaphor for any tool of power but maybe that is too literary-studies for many people