Author Topic: Our Dictionary  (Read 88965 times)

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Offline Taronyu

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Re: My Dictionary
« Reply #120 on: January 07, 2010, 11:04:46 am »
The good Dr. Frommer should buy you a pint, mate.

I should buy him a pint. Perferably, after he buys me one, haha.

At version 5.014, currently.

Offline Numeyu

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Re: My Dictionary
« Reply #121 on: January 07, 2010, 11:33:14 am »
I was wondering where you got 'Urar from.  If you are referring to the seen where Jake climbs up Iknimaya to get his ikran, I believe what he says is "ooh-rah", a term used by US Marines (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oorah_(Marines)).
Kaltxì frapo!  Oel Na'viti nerumeie.  Oeyä Na'vi kesìltsan längu slä fratrr fteria.

Offline Taronyu

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Re: My Dictionary
« Reply #122 on: January 07, 2010, 11:41:52 am »
I was wondering where you got 'Urar from.  If you are referring to the seen where Jake climbs up Iknimaya to get his ikran, I believe what he says is "ooh-rah", a term used by US Marines (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oorah_(Marines)).

Didn't I already answer this?

I'm not familiar with hoorah being said in such a weird way. And I want a word for the thundering mountains, as we don't actually have one yet - Iknimaya may be the rite of passage.

Also, I added an asterix.

Offline kewnya txamew'itan

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Re: My Dictionary
« Reply #123 on: January 07, 2010, 11:58:29 am »
It's listed as being derived by you but I can't find what you derived it from, is it a line from the film? If so, M might be a better marker even if it isn't from a script.

Also, it's eyrie. ;)
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Offline Taronyu

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Re: My Dictionary
« Reply #124 on: January 07, 2010, 12:00:00 pm »
It's listed as being derived by you but I can't find what you derived it from, is it a line from the film? If so, M might be a better marker even if it isn't from a script.

Also, it's eyrie. ;)

Will edit that. It's from the movie. And yeah, it should be aerie or eyrie. I was going off of my memory of Tolkien. I guess I need to re-read the hobbit for the 13th time....

Offline kewnya txamew'itan

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Re: My Dictionary
« Reply #125 on: January 07, 2010, 12:05:49 pm »
If it's from memory that's ok and if you're remembering from Tolkein even better.
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Offline Taronyu

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Re: My Dictionary
« Reply #126 on: January 07, 2010, 12:12:32 pm »
If it's from memory that's ok and if you're remembering from Tolkein even better.

I don't know. It makes you pretty nerdy.

Ná unapárienyä Quenyan.....

Offline kewnya txamew'itan

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Re: My Dictionary
« Reply #127 on: January 07, 2010, 12:19:40 pm »
you say that like it's a bad thing.

Is that last sentence in Quenya? I really need to learn that at some point but this is my first (and so far only) conlang.
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Offline Taronyu

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Re: My Dictionary
« Reply #128 on: January 07, 2010, 12:22:16 pm »
Ha, yeah. "But I never learned elvish..."

Offline kewnya txamew'itan

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Re: My Dictionary
« Reply #129 on: January 07, 2010, 12:26:17 pm »
ahh, well me too then I guess.
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Offline Txur’Itan

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Re: My Dictionary
« Reply #130 on: January 07, 2010, 01:39:45 pm »
It seems like a ton of work.  But if the syllable breakdowns were added within the pronunciation brackets, I think it would help a great deal of those using the dictionary as a resource.
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Offline Plumps

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Re: My Dictionary
« Reply #131 on: January 07, 2010, 01:47:24 pm »
Oh, give poor Taronyu a break :P After all that he's done for us already...
I think that was in one version, wasn't it? But was dismissed after some doubted the actual syllable breaks... Could be wrong in this - memory doesn't serve me well  ::)

Offline Taronyu

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Re: My Dictionary
« Reply #132 on: January 07, 2010, 01:52:04 pm »
It seems like a ton of work.  But if the syllable breakdowns were added within the pronunciation brackets, I think it would help a great deal of those using the dictionary as a resource.

The syllable is a major issue. I had it at one point, borrowed from Karyu Amawey's, but discarded them after a few issues. There are not a few occasions where syllables could be marked differently, in a single word. A quick example:

'u.pxa.re
'upx.a.re
'u.pxar.e
'upx.ar.e

What to do? I could, of course, do it only for verbs, and only mark from the ultimate penultimate syllables to help beginners. But I don't like doing things halfway, and that is what that would be.

Offline Txur’Itan

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Re: My Dictionary
« Reply #133 on: January 07, 2010, 02:04:46 pm »
It seems like a ton of work.  But if the syllable breakdowns were added within the pronunciation brackets, I think it would help a great deal of those using the dictionary as a resource.

The syllable is a major issue. I had it at one point, borrowed from Karyu Amawey's, but discarded them after a few issues. There are not a few occasions where syllables could be marked differently, in a single word. A quick example:

'u.pxa.re
'upx.a.re
'u.pxar.e
'upx.ar.e

What to do? I could, of course, do it only for verbs, and only mark from the ultimate penultimate syllables to help beginners. But I don't like doing things halfway, and that is what that would be.

Interesting, I thought that was more settled than it was.  /snap

With glottal stops and electives, it lead me to think that word meanings might change if the syllables were improperly joined "au" as one syllable vs "a.u" as two, and sounded out. Since Na'vi is not technically a written language, that came across as fairly important to know how to do the right way.
私は太った男だ。


Offline Na'rìghawnu

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Re: My Dictionary
« Reply #134 on: January 07, 2010, 02:10:25 pm »
Quote
that came across as fairly important to know how to do the right way.

That's true. It's really important, exspecially in verbs. But we don't have enough information to do it well.

By the way: according to Frommers phonological rules it's impossible to see "au" as a single syllable, since a syllabe may contain only one vocal, or diphthong, or the vocalic rr / ll.

Offline Toruk Makto

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Re: My Dictionary
« Reply #135 on: January 07, 2010, 02:12:59 pm »
The "Na'vi Language" Wiki states that vowels can occur in sequences and that each counts as a syllable.

Lì’fyari leNa’vi ’Rrtamì, vay set ’almong a fra’u zera’u ta ngrrpongu
Na'vi Dictionary: http://eanaeltu.learnnavi.org/dicts/NaviDictionary.pdf

Offline kewnya txamew'itan

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Re: My Dictionary
« Reply #136 on: January 07, 2010, 02:14:37 pm »
for au to be legal it would have to either be a.u or a'u. As no glottal stop is written it must be a.u and there is no ambiguity. The ambiguity arises when you have a single consonant that can be either at the end or beginning of a syllable seperating two vowels (e.g. toruk could be to.ruk or tor.uk) or when you have two consonants seperating two vowels and it could either be one consonant to each syllable or a consonant cluster on the second
« Last Edit: January 08, 2010, 01:31:18 pm by kawng mungeyu »
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Offline Plumps

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Re: My Dictionary
« Reply #137 on: January 07, 2010, 02:17:10 pm »
The "Na'vi Language" Wiki states that vowels can occur in sequences and that each counts as a syllable.

That's right... furthermore it is stated that "au" is not a diphthong, rather "aw" is - so, it's definitely "a.u"

Offline Na'rìghawnu

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Re: My Dictionary
« Reply #138 on: January 07, 2010, 02:23:14 pm »
Quote
ikran could be ik.ran or i.kran).

No, it can't. As Frommer said in his languagelog-article:

Quote
Note: Sequences of stop + liquid, though they cannot occur initially, may be found medially. In such cases, however, a syllable boundary intervenes. Example: ikran ‘banshee’ divides as ik-ran, not *i-kran.

Offline Taronyu

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Re: My Dictionary
« Reply #139 on: January 07, 2010, 02:36:42 pm »
Quote
ikran could be ik.ran or i.kran).

No, it can't. As Frommer said in his languagelog-article:

Quote
Note: Sequences of stop + liquid, though they cannot occur initially, may be found medially. In such cases, however, a syllable boundary intervenes. Example: ikran ‘banshee’ divides as ik-ran, not *i-kran.

It is constantly refreshing to see how you are always on top of things, Harìghawnu. Just want to say that. And you are of course right about consonant clusters needing a fricative in the first part.

 

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