Author Topic: Our Dictionary  (Read 95047 times)

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Swoka Swizaw

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Re: Our Dictionary
« Reply #2000 on: April 07, 2011, 09:10:29 pm »
Quote from: Email from Roger
Tìtaron lu lehrrap. 'Hunting is dangerous.'

:/ Weird, huh.

Strangely, I might understand that, but I don't want to. It's a general word for the concept of "hunt". BTW, who is Roger?

What?

http://wiki.learnnavi.org/index.php?title=Canon#More_extracts_from_various_emails

OK, my bad for a weak statement...might you be willing to provide me with an apt example of the proper usage of each? Ngaytxoa for taking this a little further than you might prefer.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2011, 09:15:28 pm by Ìngkoruptusì »

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Re: Our Dictionary
« Reply #2001 on: April 08, 2011, 12:34:44 am »
Quote from: Email from Roger
Tìtaron lu lehrrap. 'Hunting is dangerous.'

:/ Weird, huh.

Strangely, I might understand that, but I don't want to. It's a general word for the concept of "hunt". BTW, who is Roger?

What?

http://wiki.learnnavi.org/index.php?title=Canon#More_extracts_from_various_emails

I wondered if this was wrong for several minutes, but then realized that it is a somewhat odd, but ok use of tìtaron.

There are three ways to make a 'gerund' in Na`vi:

1. Use the tì-<us> form. This is a true gerund. Na`vi gerunds cannot take an argument. But in the case of tìtaron lu hrrap, I don't think that tìtaron is taking an argument. It is acting as a noun here. So I think that tì-<us> would work.
2. Use the <er> infix in a verb to indicate an ongoing action.
3. Use a 'nouned' form of a verb. This is one sneaky way to get around the fact that Na`vi does not have infinitives (i.e. 'to hunt'). And this is what K. Pawl chose to use here.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2011, 12:41:35 am by `Eylan Ayfalulukanä »

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Offline Plumps

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Re: Our Dictionary
« Reply #2002 on: April 08, 2011, 03:00:05 am »
There are three ways to make a 'gerund' in Na`vi:

2. Use the <er> infix in a verb to indicate an ongoing action.
3. Use a 'nouned' form of a verb. This is one sneaky way to get around the fact that Na`vi does not have infinitives (i.e. 'to hunt'). And this is what K. Pawl chose to use here.

That’s English thinking, I’m afraid ;) the imperfective ‹er› is not the Gerund. It has the same from in English but it’s not the same.
I hope William can shed some light on that.

Offline Taronyu

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Re: Our Dictionary
« Reply #2003 on: April 08, 2011, 03:26:48 am »
Tìtaron and tìtusaron both function as nouns - any example with one could be switched to also be an example of the other.

The only way to make a verb function as a noun grammatically in Na'vi is to use the tì- «us» pair. Frommer can, if he likes, create words as well using tì- alone, but we can't do that, as it isn't productive. This is the first case where we have a verb that has been converted into the abstract noun form, tìtaron, and can be seen elsewhere with the tì- «us» form.

Using «er» does not make a noun a verb. It may seem like it, because in English the gerund-participial form of the verb doesn't have a difference to the present imperfective form. Thus:

  • Seeing is believing. - verb in gerund-participial form functioning as a gerund (verbal noun)
  • I love the seeing-eye dog. - verb in gerund-participial form functioning as a participle (verbal adjective.)
  • I am looking at the lake. - verb in the present imperfect form

The «er» infix can only be used for the last example.

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Re: Our Dictionary
« Reply #2004 on: April 08, 2011, 04:29:31 pm »
Allow me one short note about tìtaron / tìtusaron.
I think that both of them have a slightly different meanings and they aren't absolute synonyms. Look at this example:

While i am on the hunt, the name of the action i am doing there is "the hunting".

The word tìtaron - "the hunt" really deserves to be in dictionary, as a noun derived by non-productive prefix tì-. Unlike this, the word tìtusaron - "the hunting" is just a noun generated by well known and productive mechanism tì-<us>, defined as "the name of the action performed by this verb".
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Re: Our Dictionary
« Reply #2005 on: April 09, 2011, 03:20:29 am »
To change the subject...

I was reading someone's transcription of the pandorapedia entry about the Na'vi on blu-ray, and it was talking about the rich history the Na'vi pass down in song for over 18000 years.

And it talks about "Song Cords" which are strings of colored beads and bits of stone that they use as a memory aid for the song history.  I do believe that would be the "waytelem" seeing as how "telem" is cord, thus "waytelem" would be "Song Cord" and NOT "Song chord" which may seem like it makes more sense on the surface.
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Offline Taronyu

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Re: Our Dictionary
« Reply #2006 on: April 09, 2011, 03:27:43 am »
That does make a lot more sense. Good find, Omängum.

What I wonder now is why they would need those. They have the trees...

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Re: Our Dictionary
« Reply #2007 on: April 09, 2011, 03:52:52 am »
Interesting. So, they are something like the quipu of the Inca.
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Offline omängum fra'uti

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Re: Our Dictionary
« Reply #2008 on: April 09, 2011, 05:35:15 am »
Similar indeed, though not the same. Waytelem were juat used as mnemonics in the telling. As to why they would be needed, they probably weren't logged into Eyea while telling the story. The waytelem don't record the story itself, they just aide in the telling.
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Re: Our Dictionary
« Reply #2009 on: April 19, 2011, 05:16:57 am »
I added in the words from the (not really that) recent Frommer post. :)

Sorry about the delay! I was really busy working.

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Re: Our Dictionary
« Reply #2010 on: April 19, 2011, 10:48:01 am »
I can't really see why vospxì should be derived from vosìpxì and zìsìtä :-\

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Re: Our Dictionary
« Reply #2011 on: April 19, 2011, 04:44:46 pm »
I can't really see why vospxì should be derived from vosìpxì and zìsìtä :-\

Quote from: Frommer
vospxì (n., vo.SPXÌ) ‘month’

It’s derived from the phrase vosìpxì zìsìtä, ‘a twelfth of the year.’

Beats me, too.  :-\

Offline 'Oma Tirea

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Re: Our Dictionary
« Reply #2012 on: April 23, 2011, 07:24:57 pm »
Looking through the dictionary again I find this:

-lo, -ng, and -vi aren't really productive.

For -lo, it is only attached to the first 3 numbers.  After that alo a*number* is used.
For -ng you mention first-person pronouns, but we already have the words with that listed, and besides, -ng was prevoiusly labeled as unproductive.
For -vi it was labeled as something that wasn't fully productive, unlike -tsyìp.

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Swoka Swizaw

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Re: Our Dictionary
« Reply #2013 on: April 24, 2011, 11:38:12 am »
1: Please, look at yeväng! I've never been "satisfried." ;D
2: Also, you've used /ì/ in the IPA of kintrr, kintrram, and kintrray.
3: And, finally, you have not indicated stress on tsuktswa' or tsukyom.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2011, 11:48:16 am by Ìngkoruptusì »

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Re: Our Dictionary
« Reply #2014 on: April 24, 2011, 11:56:23 pm »
1: Please, look at yeväng! I've never been "satisfried." ;D
2: Also, you've used /ì/ in the IPA of kintrr, kintrram, and kintrray.
3: And, finally, you have not indicated stress on tsuktswa' or tsukyom.

Speaking of IPA, yeväng: [ˈjɛ.vɑŋ] has the wrong A-vowel in the IPA, too.

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Re: Our Dictionary
« Reply #2015 on: April 25, 2011, 05:44:13 am »
Fixed. I think tsukyom did have the right stress, though...

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Re: Our Dictionary
« Reply #2016 on: May 07, 2011, 11:44:27 am »
Maybe tswa' is transtive..

Srak lu tìkenong fìlì'uteri?

Oel rolun fì'ut:

  Slä 'en si oe, tsamelì'u alu futa fwa oeru yayayr lolatsu, ulte lì'ut amuve oel tswola'.

Ha lu *transitive* :) Tsaw lu fìtsenge.
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Re: Our Dictionary
« Reply #2017 on: May 07, 2011, 12:07:14 pm »
sresrr’ong is missing a part of speech
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Re: Our Dictionary
« Reply #2018 on: May 09, 2011, 02:25:42 pm »
Noted. Tswa' now vtr.

Steven, I don't see that. Are you sure?

Offline omängum fra'uti

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Re: Our Dictionary
« Reply #2019 on: May 09, 2011, 03:06:23 pm »
I double checked it when I reported it...  Don't see it now.
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