Author Topic: Our Dictionary  (Read 94048 times)

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Offline kewnya txamew'itan

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Re: Our Dictionary
« Reply #240 on: January 21, 2010, 01:54:00 am »
"Particle for negative imperatives".  Ok, back to the references to see what that means.  :-[

I always matched rä'ä to "don't. Assuming I am not off base, "don't" being the contraction for "do not", is a particle?



The main place that that doesn't work is "txopu rä'ä si tsamsiyu" where if it meant don't you'd expect the si to be dropped so that definition  has limitations.



Ma taronyu, shouldn't yawm be a verb/adjective (although verb makes more sense)? Frommer uses tìyawn as a noun (I feel your love for the language IIRC) and so when we take the tì- off we should have a verb or adjective ko?
Internet Acronyms Nìna'vi

hamletä tìralpuseng lena'vi sngolä'eiyi. tìkangkem si awngahu ro
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Offline Kiliyä

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Re: Our Dictionary
« Reply #241 on: January 21, 2010, 01:58:11 am »
If it's a particle, you'd expect that construction, srak?  Like ke is a particle, as in say "txopu ke si tsamsiyu."
Peu sa'nokyä ayoengyä?  Pefya ayoeng poeru kìte'e sayi?
Pefya ayoengìl poeti hayawnu, na poel ayoengit hawnu?

What of our mother?  How shall we serve her?  How shall we protect her as she protects us?

Offline roger

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Re: Our Dictionary
« Reply #242 on: January 21, 2010, 02:32:44 am »
There is no word "yawn". According to Frommer, the root is yawne "beloved". The e drops in the derivation of tìyawn.

Offline Taronyu

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Re: Our Dictionary
« Reply #243 on: January 21, 2010, 05:53:55 am »
Updated.

Offline kewnya txamew'itan

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Re: Our Dictionary
« Reply #244 on: January 21, 2010, 12:49:46 pm »
There is no word "yawn". According to Frommer, the root is yawne "beloved". The e drops in the derivation of tìyawn.

Ahh, ok, that explains it. I missed the start of the thread and 11 pages is quite a lot to read through.  :D

In that case would the verb be yawne si (to make someone beloved)? Also, might this need a genitive (A makes B C's beloved)?
Internet Acronyms Nìna'vi

hamletä tìralpuseng lena'vi sngolä'eiyi. tìkangkem si awngahu ro
http://bit.ly/53GnAB
The translation of Hamlet into Na'vi has started! Join with us at http://bit.ly/53GnAB

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Offline roger

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Re: Our Dictionary
« Reply #245 on: January 21, 2010, 05:22:37 pm »
There is no word "yawn". According to Frommer, the root is yawne "beloved". The e drops in the derivation of tìyawn.

Ahh, ok, that explains it. I missed the start of the thread and 11 pages is quite a lot to read through.  :D

In that case would the verb be yawne si (to make someone beloved)? Also, might this need a genitive (A makes B C's beloved)?

Started a new thread w answers from Frommer on both "I love you" and the si construction.

Offline kewnya txamew'itan

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Re: Our Dictionary
« Reply #246 on: January 22, 2010, 05:00:25 pm »
Under pamtseo (music) you've listed it as derived from pam (music) tseo (art) whilst in the entry for pam you define it as sound.

I wouldn't normally notice but someone used pamtseo and, when I looked it up I found this.

Irayo in advance.
Internet Acronyms Nìna'vi

hamletä tìralpuseng lena'vi sngolä'eiyi. tìkangkem si awngahu ro
http://bit.ly/53GnAB
The translation of Hamlet into Na'vi has started! Join with us at http://bit.ly/53GnAB

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Offline NeotrekkerZ

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Re: Our Dictionary
« Reply #247 on: January 22, 2010, 05:03:37 pm »
Under pamtseo (music) you've listed it as derived from pam (music) tseo (art) whilst in the entry for pam you define it as sound.

I wouldn't normally notice but someone used pamtseo and, when I looked it up I found this.

Irayo in advance.

As I understand it Pamtseo(music) is literally sound art, so pam is sound.
Rìk oe lu hufwemì, nìn fya’ot a oe tswayon!

Offline kewnya txamew'itan

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Re: Our Dictionary
« Reply #248 on: January 22, 2010, 05:07:25 pm »
That's what I'm saying but the entry for pamtseo defines pam as music. The entry above it defines it as sound.

That's what I'm pointing out, not that pamtseo is wrong (I have no reason to think that), but that pam has been definded incorrectly in one instance (probably in the pamtseo entry).
Internet Acronyms Nìna'vi

hamletä tìralpuseng lena'vi sngolä'eiyi. tìkangkem si awngahu ro
http://bit.ly/53GnAB
The translation of Hamlet into Na'vi has started! Join with us at http://bit.ly/53GnAB

txo nga new oehu pivlltxe nìna'vi, nga oer 'eylan si mì fayspuk (http://bit.ly/bp9fwf)
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Offline NeotrekkerZ

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Re: Our Dictionary
« Reply #249 on: January 22, 2010, 05:32:23 pm »
ah, understood.
Rìk oe lu hufwemì, nìn fya’ot a oe tswayon!

Offline Mirri

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Re: Our Dictionary
« Reply #250 on: January 22, 2010, 06:59:07 pm »
Found another discrepancy. Is the verb "be responsible" kllfriyo' or kllfrivo'?

The Na'vi pocket guide has the y version, and both have the IPA spelling different too, so neither one looks like a typo.
Ngaya poanìl new mune 'uti: hrrap sì uvan. Talun poanìl new ayfoeti -- ayfo lu lehrrap ayu leuvan.

Offline roger

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Re: Our Dictionary
« Reply #251 on: January 23, 2010, 12:54:10 am »
Found another discrepancy. Is the verb "be responsible" kllfriyo' or kllfrivo'?

The Na'vi pocket guide has the y version, and both have the IPA spelling different too, so neither one looks like a typo.


Good catch! An old copy error, it would seem.

The SG has kllfrivo'. Since that syllable is underlined, it's easy to mix up v & y.

Offline Kiliyä

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Re: Our Dictionary
« Reply #252 on: January 23, 2010, 07:17:27 am »
Ma nawma tsmukan, would you mind updating your sig to let people know what version we're up to?  That'd be really helpful!
Peu sa'nokyä ayoengyä?  Pefya ayoeng poeru kìte'e sayi?
Pefya ayoengìl poeti hayawnu, na poel ayoengit hawnu?

What of our mother?  How shall we serve her?  How shall we protect her as she protects us?

Offline Taronyu

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Re: Our Dictionary
« Reply #253 on: January 23, 2010, 07:18:59 am »
As for kllfivo': you'll notice I have the v version. There were a few copy errors I caught. That's one of them.

Fixed pamtseo. Do i really have to update my sig? That would be annoying, haha.

We're up to 7.017, right now.

Offline Kiliyä

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Re: Our Dictionary
« Reply #254 on: January 23, 2010, 07:21:04 am »
Nah, you don't have to.  It'd just save me some time, but cost you.  And I don't mind downloading it, pressing Ctrl+Home and having a look.  Nevermind.  Oh, and the Version number at the top of the doc says 7.16.  Can you Save As and put the version number in the file name?
Peu sa'nokyä ayoengyä?  Pefya ayoeng poeru kìte'e sayi?
Pefya ayoengìl poeti hayawnu, na poel ayoengit hawnu?

What of our mother?  How shall we serve her?  How shall we protect her as she protects us?

Offline Taronyu

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Re: Our Dictionary
« Reply #255 on: January 23, 2010, 07:28:15 am »
I'm still uploading it.  ;D The one up is still 7.016, haha.

Right. Think I'm doine editing for now. 7.021 is the new version. Go get it.

Offline kewnya txamew'itan

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Re: Our Dictionary
« Reply #256 on: January 23, 2010, 01:55:31 pm »
Irayo ma taronyu.
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Offline Erimeyz

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Re: Our Dictionary
« Reply #257 on: January 23, 2010, 09:34:55 pm »
Can you Save As and put the version number in the file name?

Please don't.  Or if you do, be sure to save as two different files: one with the version in the filename, and one that's just NaviDictionary.pdf.  There's too many links pointing to http://content.learnnavi.org/taronyu/NaviDictionary.pdf to have to update those links every time you release an update (i.e. every two to four hours). :)

  - Eri

Offline Kiliyä

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Re: Our Dictionary
« Reply #258 on: January 24, 2010, 12:05:29 am »
I realised that as soon as I posted it... ah well...
Peu sa'nokyä ayoengyä?  Pefya ayoeng poeru kìte'e sayi?
Pefya ayoengìl poeti hayawnu, na poel ayoengit hawnu?

What of our mother?  How shall we serve her?  How shall we protect her as she protects us?

Offline Lance R. Casey

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Re: Our Dictionary
« Reply #259 on: January 24, 2010, 04:45:07 pm »
(Who the nang is this? See here and here.)

I've skimmed the backlog but since I'm new here there might be some things in the comment list below that have already been brought up, but here goes:

  • a
    The definition "pn. which, that" seems a bit shallow to me. How about a more strict mention of subordination?
  • atokirina'
    The last syllable is underlined, but in the movie Neytiri clearly stresses the penultimate one several times (with a lateral realization of the flap). This should(?) also be enough to mark the stress in rina'.
  • ean
    Confirmed as an adjective (oeyä eana txìm atsawl).
  • 'ewan
    Wrong section (should be under apostrophe).
  • fahew
    Should be noun, not verb (oeri ta peyä fahew akewong ontu teya längu).
  • ftia
    Verb (ft<ol>ia in Norm's line).
  • fyape
    I think (interrogative) adverb is more accurate than conjunction for this. Also, the use of the word "allomorph" in this entry as well as those of the other pe+-modified words seems inaccurate to me, seeing as how these are not single morphemes, but words consisting of two different morphemes. "Variant" or "variant form" fits better.
  • hapxì
    Noun (Na'viyä luyu hapxì).
  • kehe/srane
    How about calling these interjections?
  • nì'aw
    Adverb, not adjective.
  • nì'it
    Adverb, not noun: "a little, slightly".
  • -ri
    What evidence is there for calling this an adposition? Isn't it just a suffix?
  • -ru
    Same as above.
  • rutxe
    This can't be a verb given how it's used (spivaw oeti rutxe, ma oeyä eylan); I suggest particle instead.
  • san/sìk
    The first is classified as a noun and the second as a verb, whereas I think they are in fact correlative particles (one of which can be dropped at either end of the sentence as per WP).
  • tìfyawìntxu
    "Guidance", not "guide".
  • tsìvol
    Repetition of "thirty-two".
  • txele
    Noun, not verb.
  • yawne
    Adjective, not noun.
  • z<er>a'u
    Why does this have its own entry?

Additions
  • trram
    "yesterday" (attested in adverbial function)
  • -ur
    allomorph of -ru and -r (from the recent letter)
  • I don't know how many "si-verbs" you want to include as such, but other attested ones are tìkangkem si "work" and tsap'alute si "apologize".

More generally, I note with some surprise that i and ì are treated as the same letter in the lists, as are a and ä. This is flat-out wrong, obviously, but supposedly due to automatic sorting of some kind. Finally, a number of ìs have somehow gone missing from the changelog entry for v7, at least in my reader.

P.S. Ngeyä tìkangkemìri oe ngaru seiyi irayo nìtxan! Lì'fyari leNa'vi tìyawn ngeyä law lu.

// Lance R. Casey

 

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