Author Topic: Our Dictionary  (Read 93373 times)

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Offline Lance R. Casey

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Re: Our Dictionary
« Reply #280 on: January 25, 2010, 02:26:48 pm »
kehe/srane
[...]
I'm not sure what they are. Particles seems like a good suggestion, as they fill multiple roles and are a discourse marker.

The reason I brought these two up was primarily because of the many uses of "no" in English; it is not inconceivable that someone who saw an unmarked "no" beside kehe in the dictionary might come up with something like *kehe fmawn lu sìltsana fmawn. For a while I considered whether a simple clarification like "(affirmative/negative answer)" might be the way to go, but that is probably too limited if we can also have things like - Fìioangit oel tspìyang. / - Kehe! Rä'ä!
So, yes, I think particle is the best option.


lok/livok
This has been bothering the heck out of me (and everyone else, I bet). Subjunctive... adjective? adposition? what?
Might it be so that the Guide is a bit vague here, and that this is actually supposed to be a verb meaning "draw near", "approach" or something similar? This would also explain the apparent lack of a verb in the clause in question: nari soli ayoe fteke nìhawng livok we were careful not to excessively [?]
I've listened to the clip extensively, and I am confident that Frommer indeed says livoX, where X is an unreleased plosive. (Another thing that's missing from the WP transcription is the perfective infix in si in the same sentence.)


tìean and parts of speech
I agree that the most likely scenario is to have ean exclusively as the adjective "blue", and tìean for the color "blue" (or "blueness" if you will). More generally, I too have a feeling that this is the way Na'vi works: each root belongs to one category only, which can be switched at will by way of the various derivational affixes. The liberal ways we've seen these used -- and their mere existence as all-purpose tools -- seem to reinforce this. We can't be certain until Frommer rules on the matter, of course, but given what we know now, this is my bet.


mip, tìpawm
The first is the adjective "new" and the second the noun "question" (from pawm). Both can be found at WP, but I am under the strong impression that I have seen both in more authoritative contexts as well, although now I can't seem to find them. Neither is currently in the dictionary.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2010, 05:29:36 pm by Lance R. Casey »

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Offline roger

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Re: Our Dictionary
« Reply #281 on: January 25, 2010, 04:23:10 pm »
minor point, but of a kind i've seen fairly often:

"tsìypang" should be tspìyang

Offline roger

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Re: Our Dictionary
« Reply #282 on: January 25, 2010, 04:24:36 pm »
The Na'vi pocket guide has all the words for the pronoun trial case. Are these confirmed now? :)
Yes, just substitute px- for the m- in the dual.

Offline kewnya txamew'itan

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Re: Our Dictionary
« Reply #283 on: January 25, 2010, 04:32:50 pm »
The Na'vi pocket guide has all the words for the pronoun trial case. Are these confirmed now? :)
Yes, just substitute px- for the m- in the dual.

Not for po, poan and poe.
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Offline Lance R. Casey

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Re: Our Dictionary
« Reply #284 on: January 25, 2010, 05:29:07 pm »
minor point, but of a kind i've seen fairly often:

"tsìypang" should be tspìyang

So it should! Minor perhaps, but important. Stupid of me not to catch it despite reading through the post several times.

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Offline Lance R. Casey

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Re: Our Dictionary
« Reply #285 on: January 25, 2010, 05:32:26 pm »
The Na'vi pocket guide has all the words for the pronoun trial case. Are these confirmed now? :)
Yes, just substitute px- for the m- in the dual.

Not for po, poan and poe.

Why not?
mefo, mefoan, mefoe
pxefo, pxefoan, pxefoe

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Offline roger

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Re: Our Dictionary
« Reply #286 on: January 25, 2010, 11:41:38 pm »
The Na'vi pocket guide has all the words for the pronoun trial case. Are these confirmed now? :)
Yes, just substitute px- for the m- in the dual.

Not for po, poan and poe.

Why not?
mefo, mefoan, mefoe
pxefo, pxefoan, pxefoe
Yes, certainly for  mefo, pxefo.

As for gender, Frommer said you don't normally use that unless you're dabbing, or tracking a referent. I interpret this to mean that if you're talking about a male and a female, you'd use poe, poan to keep track of who is who. Or you could just use their names.

The trial is already uncommon; it doesn't even appear in the film. The chances of contransting two groups of three people, one all male and the other all female, are rather slim. Especially if the Na'vi don't have a strong division of labor.

BTW, for all we know we can say ayngae, ayngan in a chorus to tell just the men or just the women to sing. Or ayoenge, ayoengan if I want to talk about "all of us (fe)males". Say, if Eytukan and Mo'at were addressing all the Omatikaya, with the males to follow Eytukan and the females to follow Mo'at, they might say s.t. like that.

Just speculating.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2010, 11:43:17 pm by roger »

Offline omängum fra'uti

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Re: Our Dictionary
« Reply #287 on: January 26, 2010, 02:43:10 am »
My speculation is that -e and -an can work on any animate noun.

Ex...  Ikrane...  Taronyuan...  Etc

BUT...  It would almost never happen that would be done, seeing as how it's rare enough po gets gender...  I think 'ite and 'itan are probably the most common uses of the gender affix.
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Offline roger

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Re: Our Dictionary
« Reply #288 on: January 26, 2010, 03:20:50 am »
And 'itan, 'ite are essentially pre-grammar, as they were coined by Cameron. Also Ma smukan! Ma smuke! of course.

Offline omängum fra'uti

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Re: Our Dictionary
« Reply #289 on: January 26, 2010, 03:32:21 am »
But that was Tsu'tey translating Jake...  I wonder if the Na'vy use smukan and smuke or just smuk/smuktu.

'ite and 'itan is interesting because Frommer basically back-filled the meaning to be litterally "little boy" and "little girl"...  And it's as many syllables as 'eveng, less than 'evenge or 'evengan...

Bah I should stop I'm derailing this thred.
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Offline roger

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Re: Our Dictionary
« Reply #290 on: January 26, 2010, 04:20:43 am »
But that was Tsu'tey translating Jake...  I wonder if the Na'vy use smukan and smuke or just smuk/smuktu.
Very good point! (Or actually, it was Frommer translating Cameron.)

Offline omängum fra'uti

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Re: Our Dictionary
« Reply #291 on: January 26, 2010, 05:40:44 am »
Well true, but he did it (mostly) as someone would likely do it if they were translating.

(Mostly because, well, he seemed to take some liberties in the translation.)
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Offline Plumps

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Re: Our Dictionary
« Reply #292 on: January 26, 2010, 10:26:37 am »
But that was Tsu'tey translating Jake...  I wonder if the Na'vy use smukan and smuke or just smuk/smuktu.

I'm not quite sure about that (people who have seen the film more often than I have probably can) but doesn't Neytiri say ma tsmukan when she kills the viperwolf?

Offline Na'rìghawnu

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Re: Our Dictionary
« Reply #293 on: January 26, 2010, 10:43:40 am »
Yes, she says something like:

Ma oeyä tsmukan.

Offline Taronyu

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Re: Our Dictionary
« Reply #294 on: January 26, 2010, 10:52:04 am »
mip, tìpawm
The first is the adjective "new" and the second the noun "question" (from pawm). Both can be found at WP, but I am under the strong impression that I have seen both in more authoritative contexts as well, although now I can't seem to find them. Neither is currently in the dictionary.

Added. Changed POS for blue and yellow.

As for what she says, go to this thread.

Offline kewnya txamew'itan

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Re: Our Dictionary
« Reply #295 on: January 26, 2010, 12:32:26 pm »
Suggested addition: kop, as well (particle).

From this thread.

Irayo.
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Re: Our Dictionary
« Reply #296 on: January 26, 2010, 12:50:54 pm »
Suggested addition: kop, as well (particle).

From this thread.

Irayo.

Good spot. Done.

Offline kewnya txamew'itan

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Re: Our Dictionary
« Reply #297 on: January 26, 2010, 01:04:47 pm »
I just realised I made myself download it again  ::).  Irayo ma tsmukan.

Was just looking at the changelog and saw rel which got me very excited so I went to reltseo's entry and saw a few spaces missing. ;)

You can probably wait for some more stuff to update it with though, most people should understand it.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2010, 01:14:35 pm by tìkawngä mungeyu »
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Offline markus031098

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Re: Our Dictionary
« Reply #298 on: January 26, 2010, 01:32:16 pm »
If you want it to be translated into other languages, Use Google translate.
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Offline Taronyu

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Re: Our Dictionary
« Reply #299 on: January 26, 2010, 02:16:40 pm »
I just realised I made myself download it again  ::).  Irayo ma tsmukan.

Was just looking at the changelog and saw rel which got me very excited so I went to reltseo's entry and saw a few spaces missing. ;)

You can probably wait for some more stuff to update it with though, most people should understand it.

Fixed it anyway.

As for other languages, well, people are working on that. We have a russian one already.

 

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