Author Topic: Our Dictionary  (Read 93386 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Erimeyz

  • Taronyu
  • ****
  • Posts: 555
  • Karma: 33
Re: Our Dictionary
« Reply #320 on: January 27, 2010, 01:51:28 am »
Added link to interview to Resources page on wiki: http://wiki.learnnavi.org/index.php?title=Resources#Media_Stories_About_the_Na.27vi_Language_-_Print

Meanwhile, Tiger (who?) is busily adding the phrases to the Corpus: http://wiki.learnnavi.org/index.php?title=Corpus as roger and I ninja back-and-forth on this thread. :)

  - Eri

Offline omängum fra'uti

  • Moderator Emeritus
  • Palulukan Makto
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 3804
  • Karma: 127
  • Na'vi's first grammar nazi
    • Pronounced Na'vi words
Re: Our Dictionary
« Reply #321 on: January 27, 2010, 01:59:15 am »
Oe lu fì'u a lolatem wìkit

It was my original forum account name before I learned enough Na'vi to create my own.  At the time I couldn't even remember my forum name let alone type it in from memory, so I stuck with my original forum name when registering on the wiki.

Quote
Oeyä ikran slivu nga, tsakrr ayoeng 'awsiteng mivakto
ANY bad feelings I had about stuff I've used Na'vi to say are officially gone, with that one.
Ftxey lu nga tokx ftxey lu nga tirea? Lu oe tìkeftxo.
Listen to my Na'vi Lessons podcast!

Offline Na'rìghawnu

  • Tute
  • ***
  • Posts: 352
  • Karma: 22
Re: Our Dictionary
« Reply #322 on: January 27, 2010, 04:06:32 am »
Quote
Based on the dictionary entry for Neytìri.  One of 'em's wrong... and the entry had matching IPA, so I figured it was the better researched of the two.

Ok. The dictionary says the word's source is Cameron's script. But he uses "Neytiri" in his script. And - as said above - the only corpus source for this word also has "Neytiri". So - as long as there is no other source - I'd call it "Neytiri" instead of "Neytìri".

Quote
If I got wrong which one is wrong, do I still get partial credit?

Has to be answered by Taronyu. ;-)


Offline Taronyu

  • Meals on wheels
  • Olo'eyktan Anawm
  • Palulukan Makto
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 2714
  • Karma: 154
  • Lacho Calad! Drego Morn!
    • Burnt Fen
Re: Our Dictionary
« Reply #323 on: January 27, 2010, 05:25:31 am »
Edited to Neytiri. I should not that I found Neytíri somewhere, once. Thanks erimeyz.

Added words. Thanks roger.

And thanks to all, btw. You've been a great community, and it really has made me glad to be a part of all of this. Why say this now? I just hit the 1000 post mark. Allowed to be a bit sentimental.

New Dictionary version up!

Offline Lance R. Casey

  • Ikran Makto
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 948
  • se Sweden
  • Karma: 57
  • Man cenuva métim' andúnë?
Re: Our Dictionary
« Reply #324 on: January 27, 2010, 06:54:33 am »
Also tsakrr then, at that time, and note the change in vowel quality in pxasìk.

// Lance R. Casey

Offline Plumps

  • Palulukan Makto
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 6110
  • Karma: 221
  • ’Ivong Na’vi
    • Aylì'uä Ramunong (Pìlok)
Re: Our Dictionary
« Reply #325 on: January 27, 2010, 07:46:13 am »
And thanks to all, btw. You've been a great community, and it really has made me glad to be a part of all of this. Why say this now? I just hit the 1000 post mark. Allowed to be a bit sentimental.

I was waiting the moment that would happen ;)

No, ma Taronyu, it's we who have to thank you!!!

Offline Na'rìghawnu

  • Tute
  • ***
  • Posts: 352
  • Karma: 22
Re: Our Dictionary
« Reply #326 on: January 27, 2010, 08:11:23 am »
Quote
note the change in vowel quality in pxasìk.

Shall we trust this article?
I'm not sure ... it doesn't look that it was done with much diligence.
I didn't read it very carefully til now, but what I saw at first sight, is that they spell her "Netery" (at least once) and claim, that the tree, where Jake and Neytiri have had their first "communion" (as they name it) was the "tree of souls", what obviously isn't true. So, if they make such profound mistakes, shall we believe, that they spend much more diligence in spelling Na'vi words? At least "pxasik" was given in the UGO-interview. So we have two different versions of this word given in two interviews ... of which the newer one doesn't seem to be done very carefully.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2010, 08:13:32 am by Na'rìghawnu »

Offline Erimeyz

  • Taronyu
  • ****
  • Posts: 555
  • Karma: 33
Re: Our Dictionary
« Reply #327 on: January 27, 2010, 09:10:09 am »
I should not that I found Neytíri somewhere, once.

... really?  Now that would be a real find! :)

I just hit the 1000 post mark.

Woot! +karma and thanks for all the fish amazing work!

  - Eri

Offline Erimeyz

  • Taronyu
  • ****
  • Posts: 555
  • Karma: 33
Re: Our Dictionary
« Reply #328 on: January 27, 2010, 09:17:41 am »
Shall we trust this article?
I'm not sure ... it doesn't look that it was done with much diligence.
I didn't read it very carefully til now, but what I saw at first sight, is that they spell her "Netery" (at least once) and claim, that the tree, where Jake and Neytiri have had their first "communion" (as they name it) was the "tree of souls", what obviously isn't true. So, if they make such profound mistakes, shall we believe, that they spend much more diligence in spelling Na'vi words?

I spotted "Netery" too.  I think we can be confident in anything said directly by Frommer in that interview, because as I noted, it appears to have been an email interview.  You can tell by the disconnectedness of the questions, and by Frommer's responses... an in-person interview would not have that kind of phrasing, and a transcription of an in-person interview would not have that kind of punctuation.  So the editor almost certainly did a straight cut-and-paste from email (you don't think she'd have actually bothered to type ì and ä, do you?), then added the introduction (complete with crappy spelling) and a few editorial comments in brackets.

  - Eri

Offline omängum fra'uti

  • Moderator Emeritus
  • Palulukan Makto
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 3804
  • Karma: 127
  • Na'vi's first grammar nazi
    • Pronounced Na'vi words
Re: Our Dictionary
« Reply #329 on: January 27, 2010, 01:40:27 pm »
and Oeyä ikran slivu nga, tsakrr ayoeng 'awsiteng mivakto. "Be my ikran and let's ride together."

okay, is he trying for cheese?

Oops, looks like a goof slipped through. Unless he's proposing a double date, it should be just oeng.
That would be more than a double date, because a double date would still just be pxoe.

I guess Frommer REALLY gets into the University party spirit!
Ftxey lu nga tokx ftxey lu nga tirea? Lu oe tìkeftxo.
Listen to my Na'vi Lessons podcast!

Offline Ftiafpi

  • Olo'eyktan
  • Palulukan Makto
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 4759
  • Karma: 123
  • Plltxe 'eylan ulte fpxäkìm.
Re: Our Dictionary
« Reply #330 on: January 27, 2010, 01:46:10 pm »
and Oeyä ikran slivu nga, tsakrr ayoeng 'awsiteng mivakto. "Be my ikran and let's ride together."

okay, is he trying for cheese?

Oops, looks like a goof slipped through. Unless he's proposing a double date, it should be just oeng.
That would be more than a double date, because a double date would still just be pxoe.

I guess Frommer REALLY gets into the University party spirit!

rofl, Frommer referencing Na'vi orgies ftw!

Offline Lance R. Casey

  • Ikran Makto
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 948
  • se Sweden
  • Karma: 57
  • Man cenuva métim' andúnë?
Re: Our Dictionary
« Reply #331 on: January 27, 2010, 02:46:06 pm »
Quote
note the change in vowel quality in pxasìk.

Shall we trust this article?
I'm not sure ... it doesn't look that it was done with much diligence.
I didn't read it very carefully til now, but what I saw at first sight, is that they spell her "Netery" (at least once) and claim, that the tree, where Jake and Neytiri have had their first "communion" (as they name it) was the "tree of souls", what obviously isn't true. So, if they make such profound mistakes, shall we believe, that they spend much more diligence in spelling Na'vi words? At least "pxasik" was given in the UGO-interview. So we have two different versions of this word given in two interviews ... of which the newer one doesn't seem to be done very carefully.

Yes, I think we probably should. Looking more closely at the UGO interview, there are a number of oddities. One which is of particular relevance is that kaltxì is given as **kaltxi, but the sequence "tovaron, telaron, tusaron, tairon" is stranger than most (and that last form is clearly just plain wrong in any case). Aylì'ufa Erimeyzä, this new interview has, on the other hand, more an appearance of copypaste.

// Lance R. Casey

Offline Mirri

  • 'Eveng
  • ***
  • Posts: 219
  • Karma: 6
  • Taronlì'uyu
Re: Our Dictionary
« Reply #332 on: January 27, 2010, 03:05:08 pm »
and Oeyä ikran slivu nga, tsakrr ayoeng 'awsiteng mivakto. "Be my ikran and let's ride together."

okay, is he trying for cheese?

Oops, looks like a goof slipped through. Unless he's proposing a double date, it should be just oeng.
That would be more than a double date, because a double date would still just be pxoe.

I guess Frommer REALLY gets into the University party spirit!

rofl, Frommer referencing Na'vi orgies ftw!

Mrrr, big blue orgies  ;D

I think I'm missing something here. Can someone explain to me why there isn't an ergative and accusative in the first sentence? How do you know the genitive oeyä refers to ikran rather than nga if the word order is free?
Ngaya poanìl new mune 'uti: hrrap sì uvan. Talun poanìl new ayfoeti -- ayfo lu lehrrap ayu leuvan.

Offline omängum fra'uti

  • Moderator Emeritus
  • Palulukan Makto
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 3804
  • Karma: 127
  • Na'vi's first grammar nazi
    • Pronounced Na'vi words
Re: Our Dictionary
« Reply #333 on: January 27, 2010, 03:08:11 pm »
Two reasons on that one.  The first is the word order isn't COMPLETELY free.  You can't just put the words in a deck and shuffle them without changing the meaning.  There are some ordering rules.  One is that genitives go next to what they are possessing.

The other is my theory; that a pronoun does not make any sense as the "target" of a genitive.  It would be like saying "His me" or "Your them".  So even if you had "Nga oeyä ikran" I don't think it would be ambiguous.
Ftxey lu nga tokx ftxey lu nga tirea? Lu oe tìkeftxo.
Listen to my Na'vi Lessons podcast!

Offline Mirri

  • 'Eveng
  • ***
  • Posts: 219
  • Karma: 6
  • Taronlì'uyu
Re: Our Dictionary
« Reply #334 on: January 27, 2010, 03:24:38 pm »
Two reasons on that one.  The first is the word order isn't COMPLETELY free.  You can't just put the words in a deck and shuffle them without changing the meaning.  There are some ordering rules.  One is that genitives go next to what they are possessing.

The other is my theory; that a pronoun does not make any sense as the "target" of a genitive.  It would be like saying "His me" or "Your them".  So even if you had "Nga oeyä ikran" I don't think it would be ambiguous.

I suspected the one about the word order. I have problems with that when I'm using comparisons. If the things being compared aren't ordered around 'than' (to) like they are in English, it's difficult to grasp the meaning.

However, if what you're saying about pronouns not being the target genitive is true, how would you say "You are mine". Or "The Ikran is strong, he is mine."
Ngaya poanìl new mune 'uti: hrrap sì uvan. Talun poanìl new ayfoeti -- ayfo lu lehrrap ayu leuvan.

Offline Taronyu

  • Meals on wheels
  • Olo'eyktan Anawm
  • Palulukan Makto
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 2714
  • Karma: 154
  • Lacho Calad! Drego Morn!
    • Burnt Fen
Re: Our Dictionary
« Reply #335 on: January 27, 2010, 03:25:37 pm »
Two reasons on that one.  The first is the word order isn't COMPLETELY free.  You can't just put the words in a deck and shuffle them without changing the meaning.  There are some ordering rules.  One is that genitives go next to what they are possessing.

The other is my theory; that a pronoun does not make any sense as the "target" of a genitive.  It would be like saying "His me" or "Your them".  So even if you had "Nga oeyä ikran" I don't think it would be ambiguous.

True.

Japanese, among many others, allows for modifications of pronouns. As a theory, though, this isn't a bad one.

Offline omängum fra'uti

  • Moderator Emeritus
  • Palulukan Makto
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 3804
  • Karma: 127
  • Na'vi's first grammar nazi
    • Pronounced Na'vi words
Re: Our Dictionary
« Reply #336 on: January 27, 2010, 03:35:23 pm »
However, if what you're saying about pronouns not being the target genitive is true, how would you say "You are mine". Or "The Ikran is strong, he is mine."
Well see you slipped the copula in there...

Oeri nga lu. - Of me, you are
Oeru nga lu. - I have you

The thing with genitives possessing pronouns I came up as the only way to disambiguate strings of genitives.

'eylan sempulä eyktanä tsmukeyä 'eylanä 'itanä
The meaning there is completely ambiguous because there is no pronoun, so it's a big genitive mosh pit.

'eylan oeyä sempulä eyktanä tsmukeyä 'eylanä 'itanä
Now it clearly can only mean "My father's leader's sister's friend's son's friend".  The pronoun turned the mosh pit into a nice orderly line of possession.

'eylan sempulä eyktanä tsmukeyä 'eylanä 'itanä oeyä
Of course word order is free so this is equally valid, and means "My son's friend's sister's leader's father's friend".
« Last Edit: January 27, 2010, 03:59:05 pm by omängum fra'uti »
Ftxey lu nga tokx ftxey lu nga tirea? Lu oe tìkeftxo.
Listen to my Na'vi Lessons podcast!

Offline wm.annis

  • Olo'eyktan Anawm
  • Palulukan Makto
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 3074
  • Karma: 143
  • Translate the meaning, not the words!
Re: Our Dictionary
« Reply #337 on: January 27, 2010, 03:41:40 pm »
Oeri nga lu.

I must confess I haven't the foggiest idea what that would mean.
'Awa lì'fya ke tam kawkrr.
A Na'vi Reference Grammar

Offline omängum fra'uti

  • Moderator Emeritus
  • Palulukan Makto
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 3804
  • Karma: 127
  • Na'vi's first grammar nazi
    • Pronounced Na'vi words
Re: Our Dictionary
« Reply #338 on: January 27, 2010, 03:43:23 pm »
That's ok, neither do I. :D
Ftxey lu nga tokx ftxey lu nga tirea? Lu oe tìkeftxo.
Listen to my Na'vi Lessons podcast!

Offline Mirri

  • 'Eveng
  • ***
  • Posts: 219
  • Karma: 6
  • Taronlì'uyu
Re: Our Dictionary
« Reply #339 on: January 27, 2010, 03:50:20 pm »
However, if what you're saying about pronouns not being the target genitive is true, how would you say "You are mine". Or "The Ikran is strong, he is mine."
Well see you slipped the copula in there...

Oeri nga lu. - Of me, you are
Oeru nga lu. - I have you

The thing with genitives possessing pronouns I came up as the only way to disambiguate strings of genitives.

'eylan sempulä eyktanä tsmukeyä 'eylanä 'itanä
The meaning there is completely ambiguous because there is no pronoun, so it's a big genitive mosh pit.

'eylan oeyä sempulä eyktanä tsmukeyä 'eylanä 'itanä
Now it clearly can only mean "My father's leader's suster's friend's son's friend".  The pronoun turned the mosh pit into a nice orderly line of possession.

'eylan sempulä eyktanä tsmukeyä 'eylanä 'itanä oeyä
Of course word order is free so this is equally valid, and means "My daughter's friend's sister's leader's mother's friend".

Noooow I'm confused.
To me, 'eylan oeyä sempulä eyktanä tsmukeyä 'eylanä 'itanä translates to "My father's leader's sister's friend's son's friend".

And 'eylan sempulä eyktanä tsmukeyä 'eylanä 'itanä oeyä would be, according to your theory that the genitive object is next to the pronoun, in this case in front of, it'll be "My son's friend's sister's leader's father's friend". Reading it 'backwards', so to say.

And I'm not sure how this doesn't violate your rule. Shouldn't the first 'eylan be at the end, next to 'itanä?
« Last Edit: January 27, 2010, 03:54:38 pm by Mirri »
Ngaya poanìl new mune 'uti: hrrap sì uvan. Talun poanìl new ayfoeti -- ayfo lu lehrrap ayu leuvan.

 

Become LearnNavi's friend on Facebook Follow LearnNavi on Twitter! Watch LearnNavi's videos on YouTube

SMF 2.0.15 | SMF © 2017, Simple Machines
Privacy Policy
| XHTML | RSS | WAP2 | Site Rules

LearnNavi is not affiliated with the official Avatar website,
James Cameron, or the Twentieth Century-Fox Film Corporation.
All trademarks and servicemarks are the properties of their respective owners.
Images in the LearnNavi.org Forums and Gallery may not be used without permission.

LearnNavi Affiliates:
ToS

LearnNavi is the community to learn Na'vi, the Avatar Language
"A place where real friendships are made." -Paul Frommer

AvatarMeet | Learn Na'vi Forum | Learn Na'vi Wiki | Na'viteri

LearnNavi