Do demonstratives contract?

Started by 'Oma Tirea, May 16, 2011, 01:37:35 AM

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'Oma Tirea

Quote from: Sireayä mokri on May 15, 2011, 09:11:47 AM
Quote from: Tswusayona Tsamsiyu on May 15, 2011, 05:53:34 AM
Quotetsaatanä - seems incorrect as two vowels together aren't allowed. probably tsa-atanä?
just tsatanä I think (but not sure).

I think it can be tsa-atan. This seems to be the same as fya'o-o, oe-eo etc.

...however last I recall they do contract.  Was there ever a ruling on this, and if so, what was it?

Other questionable examples: peekxan, fneeltu, tsaaungia, fììlva

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Plumps

Interesting find...

I don't recall that this has ever been addressed.
The only ruling we have is about dual/trial leniting forms, ekxan was specifically mentioned at one point that it would become mekxan/pxekxan. So this could call for *pekxan as "which barrier" but with this we have the choice to put it at the end. :)

I'm really not sure about the others, since they don't cause lenition...

'Oma Tirea

Wou...

I seem to be too good at fishing out something we haven't yet found out about in the language ;D

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wm.annis

Up to now, the only things that do contract are plurality markers and the attributive -a- on adjectives (apxa + -a > apxa).

I would suspect that fì- and tsa- are more like the adpositions, where we know contraction is resisted, but someone should definitely ask Herr Professor Doktor Frommer about this.

(Suddenly wondering how to say "this fern.")

Prrton


Fralo is canon.

I actually rather strongly expect these things to contract in everyday speech when they meet the same vowel:

fì- ››› fìpxa (this fern)
tsa- ››› tsatan (that light)
fra- ››› fram'a (every doubt)
fne- fnekxan (a kind of barrier)

I would save the hyphens for an audience before the Tsahìk and Olo'eyktan at best.


'Oma Tirea

Quote from: Prrton on May 16, 2011, 12:11:07 PM

Fralo is canon.

I actually rather strongly expect these things to contract in everyday speech when they meet the same vowel:

fì- ››› fìpxa (this fern)
tsa- ››› tsatan (that light)
fra- ››› fram'a (every doubt)
fne- fnekxan (a kind of barrier)

I would save the hyphens for an audience before the Tsahìk and Olo'eyktan at best.

Just as I thought.  Although it's a wonder we haven't yet had any direct ruling from Frommer yet...

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Plumps

We do now ;)

Prrton was on the right track :)

`Eylan Ayfalulukanä

Quote from: Prrton on May 16, 2011, 12:11:07 PM

Fralo is canon.

I actually rather strongly expect these things to contract in everyday speech when they meet the same vowel:

fì- ››› fìpxa (this fern)
tsa- ››› tsatan (that light)
fra- ››› fram'a (every doubt)
fne- fnekxan (a kind of barrier)

I would save the hyphens for an audience before the Tsahìk and Olo'eyktan at best.

Prrton, by this last statement, are you inferring that using hyphens in situations like the above is a ceremonial usage?

Yawey ngahu!
pamrel si ro [email protected]

Prrton

#8
Quote from: `Eylan Ayfalulukanä on May 18, 2011, 08:55:34 PM
Quote from: Prrton on May 16, 2011, 12:11:07 PM

Fralo is canon.

I actually rather strongly expect these things to contract in everyday speech when they meet the same vowel:

fì- ››› fìpxa (this fern)
tsa- ››› tsatan (that light)
fra- ››› fram'a (every doubt)
fne- fnekxan (a kind of barrier)

I would save the hyphens for an audience before the Tsahìk and Olo'eyktan at best.

Prrton, by this last statement, are you inferring that using hyphens in situations like the above is a ceremonial usage?

NO! Not at all. I'm just showing a morpheme boundary.

They *might* be pronounced a bit differently in very formal speech, but I don't think we need to capture that in writing. Based on Paul's ruling, they just collapse into each other.

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