Names for Countries and Languages nìNa’vi

[Plumps]

I've been neglecting this for a bit ... partly because I was unsure of the overall idea but since Karyu Pawl again hinted at it in one of his latest blog posts, I was again intrigued about the idea.
I hope I didn't miss any variant that was suggested...

I'm not sure about initial glottal stops for all the languages that begin with a vowel. Thoughts?

The List: (all suggestions collected)

Amerika_PF (sute Amerikayä) = the US (from English America)
'Ìnglìsì_PF = English (from English English)

Elata = Greece
Elinika = Greek

Espanya = Spain (from Spanish España)
Espanyol = Spanish (from Spanish Español)

Esti = Estonia (from Estonian Eesti)
lì'fya lesti = Estonian Language

Europa_PF = Europe

Franse = France (from French France)
Franse_PF = French (from English French or French française?)

Italia/Italya = Italy
Italiano/Italyano = Italian (from Italiano)

Makyarortsak = Hungary {if I'm not mistaken, please correct me, if that's wrong}
Makyar = Hungarian

Nipong = Japan (from Nippon(?))
Nipongo = Japanese

Polska = Poland
Polski = Polish

Purtungal = Portugal
Purtungesì = Portuguese (from Português)

Rosiya = Russia
Ruski/Ruskxi = Russian

Sweriye_PF = Sweden (from Swedish Sverige or English Sweden)
Swenska/Switìsì = Swedish (from Swedish svenska or English Swedish)

Tänmak = Denmark
Tänskì = Danish

Toitslan = Germany (from German Deutschland)
Toitsye_PF = German (from German deutsch)

Turkiye = Turkey
Turkìtse = Turkish

Tsyungwen_PF = Mandarin Chinese

Ukrayina = Ukrain
Ukrayinska = Ukrainian

edit: for update on Sweden and Europe

[Kì'eyawn]

Ma Plumps, this looks excellent.  I have just one comment:

I think it was decided at the meeting this weekend that Sweden was Sveriye—but check with Le'eylan and/or Taronyu?

[Kemaweyan]

Ukrayina - Ukrain
Ukrayinska - Ukrainian

[Lance R. Casey]

I think it was decided at the meeting this weekend that Sweden was Sveriye—but check with Le'eylan and/or Taronyu?

It would have to be Sweriye, since v cannot occur as part of a cluster -- unless that's also been subject to a decision.

[judytuna]

Right-o, ma Lance. =) These two came to us straight from the mouth of Karyu Pawl, this weekend:

Sweriye - Sweden (Sverige in Swedish)

Europa - Europe

We tried to put in all kinds of ejectives ("ewrepxa!!"), but Frommer said no. HRH.

Sweriye and Europa were immediately entered into the dictionary by Taronyu as soon as they came out of Karyu Pawl's mouth. =D Look in "loan words", section C. http://mwf-data.clonk2c.ch/dvi/attach/NaviDictionary.pdf

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What follows is unofficial, and only my suggestion. ma Plumps, I see a PF note under Tsyungwen, and I'm assuming that means it also came from Paul Frommer. I wish I had thought to ask him about it while I was there (I am Chinese, but born in America; that's why I'm so interested HRH). The way to say "China" in Mandarin Chinese is 中国, "Zhōngguó". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_of_China#Sinitic_names

It's interesting that he chose Tsyung. I would have chosen Tsong, to be honest--I do not hear a "yu" sound in "zhong" at all. I hear "o". Maybe he chose a "y" sound to try to capture the "zhrrr"-iness of the "zh" (the retroflex). As a native speaker of Mandarin with a Taiwan accent, I don't emphasize the retroflex on the Zh as much as speakers of Mandarin in China do, so a Ts sound for "zhong" is already very acceptable to me. HRH. In fact, I already pretty much say "Tsong" for that word. So to me, the Na'vi "Tsong" is very very close to Mandarin "Zhong", but Na'vi "Tsyung" doesn't sound very much like it.

But, all that aside, since there is already a Frommerian Tsyung for "zhong", now I'm thinking about how to Na'vi-ize "guo". The best I can come up with is "kwo". So Tsyungkwo for China. What do you think? =)

[Carborundum]

What follows is unofficial, and only my suggestion. ma Plumps, I see a PF note under Tsyungwen, and I'm assuming that means it also came from Paul Frommer. I wish I had thought to ask him about it while I was there (I am Chinese, but born in America; that's why I'm so interested HRH). The way to say "China" in Mandarin Chinese is 中国, "Zhōngguó". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_of_China#Sinitic_names

It's interesting that he chose Tsyung. I would have chosen Tsong, to be honest--I do not hear a "yu" sound in "zhong" at all. I hear "o". Maybe he chose a "y" sound to try to capture the "zhrrr"-iness of the "zh" (the retroflex). As a native speaker of Mandarin with a Taiwan accent, I don't emphasize the retroflex on the Zh as much as speakers of Mandarin in China do, so a Ts sound for "zhong" is already very acceptable to me. HRH. In fact, I already pretty much say "Tsong" for that word. So to me, the Na'vi "Tsong" is very very close to Mandarin "Zhong", but Na'vi "Tsyung" doesn't sound very much like it.

But, all that aside, since there is already a Frommerian Tsyung for "zhong", now I'm thinking about how to Na'vi-ize "guo". The best I can come up with is "kwo". So Tsyungkwo for China. What do you think? =)

I'm just guessing here, but I imagine Tsyungwen refers specifically to Zhongyuan Mandarin, not Standard Mandarin.
Which of course wouldn't change the conclusion that zhong=tsyung.

[Plumps]

I'm also afraid that kw- is no legal consonant cluster.
Is the g of -guo really pronounced as such or is it more a Na'vi -ng- equivalent?

Yeah, Tsyungwen is from one of his latest blog posts.

[judytuna]

ma Carborundum, that's interesting. Thanks for the link =) I don't know Zhongyuan Mandarin at all, so I can't comment. Did Frommer study Zhongyuan Mandarin or something? Do you know the source of Frommerian Tsyung? I looked in this thread, but I couldn't find a reference.

On Sunday morning, he used regular Mandarin as an example to illustrate something about aspect, so I got really excited and spoke to him in Mandarin a tiny bit. He said that he studied Mandarin for about a year. His Mandarin sounded pretty good -- I complimented him on his tones, and he said he worked really really hard on that. =D =D <3

Also, I keep thinking about Na'vi "kwo" for (standard) Mandarin "guo". There are very few occurrences of "kw" in the dictionary, but they do exist--example: zekwä. Thusly, "kwo" oughta be legal... right? HRH

One last thing: I wanted to add that Karyu Pawl did decree that we ought to use the way to say the name of the country in the country's own language to make our Na'vi-izations of the country names. I know that's what you guys are already doing here, but just adding that tidbit. =)

[judytuna]

ma Plumps, you are too fast! Irayo =) Yay! I found the reference to Frommerian Tsyung, under #16 at this post on naviteri.

So, how 'bout them ayzekwä? HRH

[Plumps]

So nice, to get inside information
Thanks so much for that confirmation, ma Judy

Hm, the problem with kw is that in zekwä it's legal, because the syllabification is zek.wä. So, it would have to be Tsyungk.wo or Tsyung.kwo but either isn't legal because a consonant cluster at the end of a syllable ... not allowed

[Kì'eyawn]

I think it was decided at the meeting this weekend that Sweden was Sveriye—but check with Le'eylan and/or Taronyu?

It would have to be Sweriye, since v cannot occur as part of a cluster -- unless that's also been subject to a decision.

you're absolutely right, ma Lance, my apologies; i was so focused on the -eriy- part of the word that i got myself confounded...

[Lance R. Casey]

[...] the -eriy- part of the word [...]

That is somewhat surprising to me, however, as the 'i' is seldom if ever pronounced in the word "Sverige".

['Oma Tirea]

[...] the -eriy- part of the word [...]

That is somewhat surprising to me, however, as the 'i' is seldom if ever pronounced in the word "Sverige".

Probably not too much more surprising than the Na'vi spelling pronounciation of "Skype"...

[judytuna]

Ahhhh, thank you ma Plumps. Tslolam. =)

[Plumps]

Ahhhh, thank you ma Plumps. Tslolam. =)

Always here to help If you have another idea how one could transcribe that into Na'vi, let us know, ok?