Na'vi 2 alphanumeric

['eylan na'viyä]

When registering on web pages i often have the problem that only a-z;A-Z;0-9 are allowed. My username eg has 3 disallowed characters. so i often have to choose a replacement (also a general problem in my native language german with ä,ö,ü,ß).

maybe we could establish a better solution than leaving out "'", writing i for ì and ae for ä which seems to be the current way atm.
These are the solutions i could think of:

"'"	"7"(resembling ʔ)	like in Skxwxwu7mesh<-best solution by common consent
	"1"	possibly conflicting with the solution for "ì"
	"-"	might be also disallowed;does not really resemble "'"
	""(leave it out)	not the best way in my opinion
	"_"	might be also disallowed;does not really resemble "'"
"ì"	"1"	in combination with ' = 7 too much leet
	"I"	get sometimes converted to lowercase
	"ii"	in english "ì" is always shorter that "i", so this could be a bit confusing
	"j"	"j" is at least a bit "i"isch
	"-i"	"-" might be also disallowed;cuts up words optically;in some(rare) situations the original "-" might be be necessary
"ä"	"4"	in combination with ' = 7 too much leet
	"A"	get sometimes converted to lowercase
	"d"	could be misleading especially for beginners who were told that there is no d in Na'vi
	"q"	maybe less confusing than d
	"ae"	like it is done in German but in German there is usually no vocalcluster "ae" but in Na'vi there is eg:meoauniaea
	"ai"	also exists eg:soaia
	"aa"	could be a bit confusing with unnecessary adjective "a"s like "apxa" -> "apxaa" <!=> 'upxareyä -> 'upxareyaa
	"-a"	"-" might be also disallowed;cuts up words optically;in some(rare) situations the original "-" might be be necessary
"é"	"ee"
	?
*	"I,ii,A,ae,ai,aa"	language learners might understand/pronounce them incorrectly because of false assumptions

which ones would you prefer? or are there other solutions?

btw: if you think a pro/contra for one of the options is missing in the list, tell me

[kewnya txamew'itan]

'	"7"(resembling ʔ);"1";"-"(might be also disallowed);""(leave it out (not the best way in my opinion)
ì	"1";"I"
ä	"4";"A";"d";"ae"(like it is done in German but in German there is usually no vocalcluster "ae" but in Na'vi there is);"ai"(does "ai" exist in Na'vi?)

Na'vi allows all non-consecutive vowel clusters (i.e. no aa, ee, ii, oo, or uu).

I was thinking about this quite recently in fact and was thinking of:

ì -> ii
ä -> aa

but I didn't know what to do for ', I like you idea of 7.

['eylan na'viyä]

thanks, i added them to the list.
although they are at least better than most of the other solutions i think there are problems with these too:

"ii": i would rather associate "ii" with "i" and "i" with "ì" but switching them would lead to total confusion

"aa" could be a bit confusing with unnecessary adjective "a"s like "apxa" -> "apxaa" <!=> 'upxareyä -> 'upxareyaa

[kewnya txamew'itan]

Possibly. It's still less confusing than ae or ai would be, they both occur already (meouaniaea and soaia).

[Kayrìlien]

but I didn't know what to do for ', I like you idea of 7.

This is exactly how the Skxwxwu7mesh language writes a glottal stop, with a number 7. I had a thread about it in the Linguistics section but I don't know if it's still there. I know it's a cliche, but...great minds think alike, I guess.

Unrelated: When did Frommer finally decide on what meoauniaea meant?
edit: Found it, it was in the Earth Day message! How did I not read that already!!!

Kayrìlien

['eylan na'viyä]

Possibly. It's still less confusing than ae or ai would be, they both occur already (meouaniaea and soaia).

thats true, none of them is perfect. atm i would also prefer your solution but im not 100% happy with it.

[kewnya txamew'itan]

This is exactly how the Skxwxwu7mesh language writes a glottal stop, with a number 7. I had a thread about it in the Linguistics section but I don't know if it's still there. I know it's a cliche, but...great minds think alike, I guess.

Unrelated: When did Frommer finally decide on what meoauniaea meant?
edit: Found it, it was in the Earth Day message! How did I not read that already!!!

Kayrìlien

I remember that thread, didn't remember the 7=' thing though.

I'm glad Frommer finally got round to it. Now I can translate my tawtute name perfectly.

Possibly. It's still less confusing than ae or ai would be, they both occur already (meouaniaea and soaia).

thats true, none of them is perfect. atm i would also prefer this solution but im not 100% happy with it.

Which solution?

'=7 is definitely the best, but what have we decided for ì and ä?

I for one think that ae or ai would be unworkable, A or I could work though I guess.

['eylan na'viyä]

This is exactly how the Skxwxwu7mesh language writes a glottal stop, with a number 7. I had a thread about it in the Linguistics section but I don't know if it's still there. I know it's a cliche, but...great minds think alike, I guess.
Re: i think you can find people with better linguistic skills than mine around this forum easily

Unrelated: When did Frommer finally decide on what meoauniaea meant?
edit: Found it, it was in the Earth Day message! How did I not read that already!!!

Kayrìlien

I remember that thread, didn't remember the 7=' thing though.

i read that thread too but could not find it again. i had some wikipedia articles about ipa opened at that time, so this relation seemed quite obvious to me.

I'm glad Frommer finally got round to it. Now I can translate my tawtute name perfectly.

Possibly. It's still less confusing than ae or ai would be, they both occur already (meouaniaea and soaia).

thats true, none of them is perfect. atm i would also prefer this solution but im not 100% happy with it.

Which solution?

i meant yours, sorry

'=7 is definitely the best, but what have we decided for ì and ä?

I for one think that ae or ai would be unworkable, A or I could work though I guess.

A&I look good but very often capitalization gets lost eg with email-addresses and domains

[roger]

I think the best solution is probably to use SAMPA-like caps and accept that sometimes they'll get lost. I suppose if you're into leet, numerals would work, but they'd throw a lot of people. My 2nd choice though. Double vowels are as confusing as hell.

[Tsamsiyu92]

ä = æ (ae).

[kewnya txamew'itan]

Ma tsamsiyu, whilst that would certainly be logical (and follow on from other languages that do other characters with an umlaut that way), it would be unworkable because na'vi allows for the vowel cluster ae which appears in my name amongst other places.

['eylan na'viyä]

I think the best solution is probably to use SAMPA-like caps and accept that sometimes they'll get lost. I suppose if you're into leet, numerals would work, but they'd throw a lot of people. My 2nd choice though. Double vowels are as confusing as hell.

whereas ' = 7 seems to be common consent, additional numerals would make it look too much like 1337. I also thought about that.

i added ì = j and a = q to the list. i think with both, newcomers would rather look up how to pronounce them first, instead of assuming how it is done, like it would probably happen with aa and ii. And people who know the language at least a bit might detect it as alternative transcription quite easily.
what do you think about them?

[kewnya txamew'itan]

j and q is a good idea actually. No-one's going to look at kaltxj and assume they can pronounce it correctly.

I guess this transcription would fit more naturally as an extension of the scientific notation than the normal one wouldn't it?

['eylan na'viyä]

I guess this transcription would fit more naturally as an extension of the scientific notation than the normal one wouldn't it?

though you're right i think it could be applied to both. I think most people on this forum are used to the normal notation. So, when creating something public like usernames emails and domains one would probably chose the more widespread version and only change that what cannot be avoided.

[tsrräfkxätu]

Kaltxì!

Here is a very universal (if ugly) idea. Just add a '-' before the a or i to represent a non-ASCII accent. And use _ for '. These chars are unreserved, unrestricted, and no language learner would be so reckless as to suppose they could pronounce them right.

ì: -i (lìm –> l-im)
ä: -a (swirä –> swir-a)
': _ ('aw –> _aw)

['eylan na'viyä]

Kaltxì!

Here is a very universal (if ugly) idea. Just add a '-' before the a or i to represent a non-ASCII accent. And use _ for '. These chars are unreserved, unrestricted, and no language learner would be so reckless as to suppose they could pronounce them right.

ì: -i (lìm –> l-im)
ä: -a (swirä –> swir-a)
': _ ('aw –> _aw)

added

i think these are a bit tricky:
-though, in many cases "-" and "_" are allowed, it is not always the case eg: no "_" in emails or domains.
-when no spaces are allowed you need "-" or "_" for separating words.

but thanks, every possibility should be considerated.
actually this made me think about something i haven't regarded yet:

how should the é in tuté be represented?
is "é" actually official ?

[kewnya txamew'itan]

ì: -i (lìm –> l-im)
ä: -a (swirä –> swir-a)
': _ ('aw –> _aw)

I like the idea of that a lot, very elegant.

i think these are a bit tricky:
-though, in many cases "-" and "_" are allowed, it is not always the case eg: no "_" in emails or domains.
-when no spaces are allowed you need "-" or "_" for separating words.



how should the é in tuté be represented?
is "é" actually official ?

You are allowed _ in emails and domains.

You're right about it annoying the word seperator. Perhaps one could use:

Are asterisks allowed in domain names etc.? If so could you use them instead of the underscore and use underscore for word seperator.



The accent is there to show the stress, this technique of showing the stress a la Spanish isn't really used very much now, we tend to prefer bold or underlining to show it (if we do at all) as it's nicer to read.

In most cases, the stress accent isn't necessary anyway.

[tsrräfkxätu]

-though, in many cases "-" and "_" are allowed, it is not always the case eg: no "_" in emails or domains.
-when no spaces are allowed you need "-" or "_" for separating words.

but thanks, every possibility should be considerated.
actually this made me think about something i haven't regarded yet:

how should the é in tuté be represented?
is "é" actually official ?

Oh, I didn't pay close attention to why you need an ASCII-only format, and didn't consider domain names. Like you said, they are not allowed. However, I have email addresses with both - and _ (even as first char), so that shouldn't be a problem.

No. Both versions of tute are written tute. Stress isn't in any way marked in written Na'vi, at least not in any "official" communication from Pawl.

[kewnya txamew'itan]

No. Both versions of tute are written tute. Stress isn't in any way marked in written Na'vi, at least not in any "official" communication from Pawl.

He used to use the acute accent in his early emails (as did prrton in his posts, some of them contain a hideous number as he marked every stress).

Now, as you say he rarely marks it unless he's giving us new words when he uses bold or underlining.

For normal text, it isn't used, no.

[tsrräfkxätu]

No. Both versions of tute are written tute. Stress isn't in any way marked in written Na'vi, at least not in any "official" communication from Pawl.

He used to use the acute accent in his early emails (as did prrton in his posts, some of them contain a hideous number as he marked every stress).

Now, as you say he rarely marks it unless he's giving us new words when he uses bold or underlining.

For normal text, it isn't used, no.

Yeah, I'm aware, that's why I wrote "official", i.e. when he's not in teacher mode.